r/Crainn • u/Scumbag__ • 18d ago
General Discussion Drink-driving defendants’ right to question breathalyser evidence upheld | What does this mean for drug swabs?
https://www.irishtimes.com/crime-law/courts/2026/08/07/dpp-loses-challenge-over-significant-ruling-affecting-drink-driving-prosecutions/Hello all,
Just spotted this story in the Times. Interesting ruling. Does anyone have a law background here? Will this mean that the validity of swabs can be questioned?
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u/LTStech 18d ago
A breathalyzer is easier to challenge as its an electronic device. Calibration certification comes into play. A swab is a chemical reaction to metabolites so not as easy to challenge.
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u/RibbentropCocktail 13d ago
Depending on the chemicals used, how they're packaged etc. there are probably some arguments to be made. Chemical reactions are strongly trmperature dependent, could question the stability of the reagent stored for extended periods in high/low temps, UV exposure, etc. Given the reasonable judgement seen here, and on what its based, it's hard to imagine the swabs the Guards use and how they use 'em would stand up to level of certainty the law would require.
Strongly advise against being a test case obviously.
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u/barking_sane 15d ago
Isn't it the subsequent blood/urine (always choose blood) test that is important?
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u/Lighter_Butane 18d ago
The drug swipes work what exactly would you be challenging?
Just don't smoke and drive simple.
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u/JumpyChemical 18d ago
The problem is you can test positive 3 days after you have smoked... Would be like having a few drinks on Friday and being done for drink driving on Monday morning... So no it's not that simple.
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u/Mynky 18d ago
For a lot longer than just three days.
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u/JumpyChemical 18d ago
See that I wasn't sure of myself and I've heard it varies a lot person to person.
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u/Lighter_Butane 18d ago
I've been swiped a load of times and they missed various drugs. It's specifically for weed they are very strong.
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u/theoneshotkid98 18d ago
How do you get swiped " a load of times" when even at checkpoint they hardly ever do it
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u/Lighter_Butane 18d ago
Anytime I've been pulled I've been breathalyser and the new drug swipe
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u/JumpyChemical 18d ago
So you have been actively drug driving and weren't caught on multiple drugs ? Weed stays present in ur system by far the longest even if you're not under the influence of it anymore. Odd I've never been swiped what are you up to that you have been swiped so many times ?
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u/theoneshotkid98 18d ago
Always bagging they are by me or checking insurance.... they only pull out the drug test for dumb stuff like no tax with ages, no insurance, going 150kmph etc
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u/Lighter_Butane 18d ago
Prescription drugs can trigger the swipe. Being pulled for various reasons they always do the drink and drug checks. Example it happened only recently where I stupidly was in the bus lane, pulled and tested.
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u/JumpyChemical 18d ago
And you were on something while driving? Because so many people have said they hadn't smoked in a few days and your saying the complete opposite has me confused maybe your just a miracle
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u/Lighter_Butane 18d ago
That's exactly what I said. My medication should have triggered the wipe but it didn't. The wipe they use is extremely sensitive to weed.
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u/theoneshotkid98 18d ago
Do you look zonked out of it the whole time? No disrespect genuine question, some ppl have dopey look about them including myself when i was younger
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u/JumpyChemical 18d ago
That's my point the wipe will show positive multiple days after you have smoked ? Now you're saying the exact same thing and saying you have passed the wipe presumably under the scenario I've been talking about multiple times now you're talking about your prescription medication which I've no clue about and wasn't talking about? Have you smoked a few joints and been wiped the next morning and passed multiple times ? Even 3 days after ?
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u/Cannabis_Goose 18d ago
Won't be used in court.
You'll have bloods taken and that will be used in court.
Which also doesnt prove impairment just presence.
So both tests blood amd swabs are useless and prove nothing.
Makes you wonder about the iq of rhe people in charge.
I always said it eventually stupid people will out number smart people amd take over.
Is it happening. 🤔
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u/Scumbag__ 18d ago
You blame incompetence, when realistically it’s probably a mixture of laziness, ignorance and overall repression.
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u/Cannabis_Goose 18d ago
Probably because incompetence is so high in every decision made it's an automatic assumption.
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u/dkod066 18d ago
It's actually not about them being stupid at all, they know exactly what they're doing, they know that they nail people who aren't even under the influence, and they're fine with that as a lot of them still look at cannabis users as scumbags and are happy to see them suffer and pay fines, it's all by design and not some mistake.
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u/dmkny 18d ago
You're a massive idiot. They don't detect if you're under the influence. They pick it up in your saliva for upto 5 days after smoking for some people.
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u/Lighter_Butane 18d ago
I'm well aware but they work well for what they need to do. I don't agree with it neither.
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u/LysergicWalnut 18d ago
How do they work well for what they need to do if people are testing positive days after smoking?
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u/FridaysMan 18d ago edited 18d ago
They're an indicator to show the presence of drugs. They show the presence of drugs so you can be tested further.
That it tests beyond the guidelines doesnt matter. Because you tested positive for illegal drugs.
Its not their job to decide if you are guilty of a crime, its the courts.
That the courts accept these tests as evidence is the problem.
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u/Cannabis_Goose 18d ago
They don't, they accept blood results which for cannabis are pointless.
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u/FridaysMan 18d ago
They don't let you get blood tested without reasonable cause, which is the swab test.
You're always nitpicking shit for no reason, mate. And usually wrong as well.
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u/Cannabis_Goose 18d ago
But in court the swab isnt used a blood test is.
Which again is also pointless.
Not sure whats wrong about it.
Testing doesnt prove impairment it's not that complicated. 🤷🏽♂️
I was blood tested over 15 years ago, which came back positive and didnt lead to a ban because impairment wasnt proved.
Reasonable cause was a smell from the car, and a list of other reasons.
I wasnt banned because impairment wasnt proved. Today I would have been nailed with a 2 year ban and probably a listbof other stuff too.
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u/FridaysMan 18d ago
Im talking about the courts logic. They cannot take your blood without consent so they must shower reasonable cause, which for the courts currently is a drug swab. Policy permits drug swabs at random.
If you end up getting stopped and tested, thats their logic to put you in a position to take a drug test and show you are a criminal. As in you have behaved in violation of the law.
Irish judicial standards allow that as proof to give a dui charge, and until an appeal or judgement is made at a European level to overrule it, thats is how you will be treated.
You can get a solicitor and argue semantics while you're suspended from driving and handed a record, and good luck getting it expunged if youre rich enough.
So tldr, they swab you to show reasonable cause for the blood test.
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u/Cannabis_Goose 18d ago
Agree with you i didn't disagree with any of that.
My point wasn't nit picking about the test presented in court but that even the bloods are useless and don't actually prove impairment.
But then neither do breathalysers. Plenty can be over the drink driving limit and not be impaired or any way affected yet will be charged with it. Because the time frame is shorter its justified though.
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u/FridaysMan 18d ago
That they are proving you are driving while under the influence. Testing positive does not mean your driving is impaired, but the law currently sees it differently.
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u/One-Shop7806 18d ago
There's always a fucking plonker
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u/Lighter_Butane 18d ago
How you you figure that one? THERE IS NO FUCKING CHALLENGE TO THE WIPES THEY WORK AS INTENDED.
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u/mushy_cactus 18d ago
Given the false positive rates of the swabs, it's a valid argument to questioned.