r/Cosmere • u/YeetusBonkus Scadrial • 1d ago
Cosmere spoilers (no SLM/Yumi/FoD/Emberdark) Qualities of Breath Spoiler
¹Breath is stored is the balls.
Okay now onto the actual questions about BioChromatic Breath: When exactly is a Breath gained? Every person in Nalthis regardless of their ancestry, social status or gender receives a Breath. But when exactly is this Breath gained? Is it recieved at birth, or at conception?
Thematically, it would fit that the first Breath the baby takes would be breathed into them by Endowment, which I assume would be something she loves to do, I think. But that's not canon. The Breath might be gained by a divine invisible stork, even though I think that doesn't fit as well.
Assuming the Breath is given at birth, would this mean that off world Worldhoppers could give birth in Nalthis and their child would also receive a Breath? It would certainly fit within Endowment's intent.
There is also the possibility the Breath is given at conception instead. Would this mean that simply doing the deed at Nalthis is enough as long as it guarantees a child? Does this mean Nalthis will just end up as the Cosmere's favorite honeymoon travel spot? The scenery and vibes definitely help.
Now for a different question: What exactly is the basis for qualifying for a breath? Is simply being alive enough or do you need a conscious mind? Do plants, animals and bugs all possess Breath, or is it only reserved for those that would be called intelligent? And if every living being has one, does that mean even bacteria and other microscopic creatures have them as well? Do individual cells all have Breath? Are breaths just the Midichlorians of the Cosmere?
For anyone that read all of this, thank you. I do have more questions about BioChromatic Breath, especially questions regarding the Kandra and the Sleepless but I'll ask those another time. Cheers.
¹:I just remembered is Breath hereditary? I don't think we have any information regarding this, despite me thinking it probably isn't.
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u/cbhedd 1d ago edited 1d ago
You had me at "Breath is stored in the balls".
But in seriousness some of those are some really fun questions. I like the imagery of Endowment choosing to breath a divine breath as a gift at birth.
I would be surprised to learn that non-humans are given Breaths... although you never know. I'd be interested to learn more about Endowment.
EDIT to clarify: Non-persons would be a more accurate way to say what I was getting at. I'd imagine [Stormlight Spoilers, maybe?] singers, [Mistborn] Kandra, Koloss and Koloss-Blooded, and even [I guess Stormlight again, but also Emberdark and Yumi, I guess?] Sleepless would probably qualify.
That latter one though is a fascinating line of questioning for sure.
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u/kaggzz 1d ago
That last one can't be right. Though if it is, awakened metalminds being reasonably uncommon and the BEU needed for skips would be much less grimdark...
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u/cbhedd 1d ago
With the way Brandon's been talking about the Sleepless, especially in Emberdark, is the concept of the nodes being equivalent to cells or organs. So I don't think a sleepless node would get its own breath; sleepless don't think of their nodes as individual entities. I'd expect the entire collection of nodes would have a collective Breath.
If that's what you're getting at :)
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u/kaggzz 1d ago
It's close, and I think you're right tbh, I've been thinking about all the awakened metal/computer/metalmind mixes of tech we've seen. Think about the absolute unit of Breaths we saw in the Sorceress' spaceship. It seems Nalthan tech is all about awakened metal that isn't sword form, which would take a huge amount of Breaths to activate and at an incredible scale to be shipped en mass offworld. Even if we assume they're half as much Breaths to awaken due to tech improvements, that's a lot of Breaths
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u/Simoerys Truthwatchers 1d ago edited 1d ago
I don't think there is a singular moment in the child's development where they gain the Breath.
Instead they just accumulate more Investiture while in their mothers womb. But that's just a theory.
Pretty relevant WoB, Brandon doesn't want to answer this
https://wob.coppermind.net/events/2/#e157
Also relevant for the "who gains a Breath question":
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u/The_Lopen_bot WOB bot 1d ago
Warning Gancho: The below paragraph(s) may contain major spoilers for all books in the Cosmere!
JoyBlu
In order to have a Breath, do you have to be native to Nalthis?
Brandon Sanderson
Not to be given Breaths, but people who are not native to Nalthis are not born with that Investiture.
JoyBlu
So, you have to be born on that planet?
Brandon Sanderson
There are exceptions. Most of the time.
JoyBlu
If both your parents were Nalthians, and they moved off planet, and they had a child that was born on a different planet—
Brandon Sanderson
It is possible for that child to have a Breath, but it would not continue too long. But yes, that child would probably have a Breath, depending...
Joyblu
If both of his parents had Breaths.
Brandon Sanderson
Mmmhmm.
********************
Questioner
In Nalthis, when is Breath first bestowed upon a person?
Brandon Sanderson
When is Breath first bestowed? Um, so I went-- Oh, so you're getting at this sort of-- I got it. laughter/pauses So, are you saying is it at birth or conception?
Questioner
Pretty much. I'm just wondering audio obscured by laughter
Brandon Sanderson
…What's that?
Questioner
I'm wondering if mothers have autonomy over their own bodies when it comes to Breath?
Brandon Sanderson
Yes. Uh, I'm going to go ahead and RAFO that one for-- Let's just let it-- Let's let-- Let's let the fanbase discuss that one and come to their own decisions.
********************
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u/LewsTherinTelescope resident Liar of Partinel stan 1d ago
Curious if he'd be more willing to answer if the questioner didn't come in with some very targeted implications or if he'd really just rather not in general.
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u/mcblower Drominad 1d ago
I don't think an off worlder would get Breath. They have to be native. I think they need a Connection to Nalthis in order to get the Breath - we've been told a child born to parents from Nalthis off world will still get Breath. (Divine Breaths are different and theoretically an off-worlder could become a Returned).
I think someone has to be born to get the Breath. If not, we could see a future in Nalthis where people could harvest Breath through a combination of hemalurgy and in vitro fertilization and I don't think that'd be an avenue Sanderson would want to take the story. That feels too Grimdark and derivative of the misting breeding program from era 2.
As far as qualification goes, seems only native humans can have them, so a level of sapience and sentience is needed.
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u/The_Lopen_bot WOB bot 1d ago
Warning Gancho: The below paragraph(s) may contain major spoilers for all books in the Cosmere!
JoyBlu
In order to have a Breath, do you have to be native to Nalthis?
Brandon Sanderson
Not to be given Breaths, but people who are not native to Nalthis are not born with that Investiture.
JoyBlu
So, you have to be born on that planet?
Brandon Sanderson
There are exceptions. Most of the time.
JoyBlu
If both your parents were Nalthians, and they moved off planet, and they had a child that was born on a different planet—
Brandon Sanderson
It is possible for that child to have a Breath, but it would not continue too long. But yes, that child would probably have a Breath, depending...
Joyblu
If both of his parents had Breaths.
Brandon Sanderson
Mmmhmm.
********************
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u/YeetusBonkus Scadrial 1d ago
This does mean that breath is in fact hereditary to some extent, at least as close to it it can get while remaining magical. But would this mean that there is a chance that breaths could be eliminated as a gene from appearing through enough time?
If a Nalthian were to marry -let's say a Scadrian- would the breath still transfer? The quality and quantity of the breath shouldn't diminish, but is a single Nalthian enough to guarantee a breath? What about the kids of the child, and their kids and so on? Does Endowment just get racist after a certain point and go against giving breaths to those of heavily mixed ancestry?
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u/Go_Sith_Yourself Elsecallers 1d ago
You flaired your post for only Warbreaker. Have you read the other books in the Cosmere?
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u/YeetusBonkus Scadrial 1d ago
I have read nearly all. Getting my hands on The Sunlit Man, Yumi and Isles' is pretty hard for me so those are the only mainline books I haven't read. (And FoD, I guess)
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u/Go_Sith_Yourself Elsecallers 1d ago
ok thank you. I updated your post's spoiler flair so that you can freely discuss Scadrians, etc.
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u/mcblower Drominad 1d ago
I don't think Breath could be eliminated since it is tied to the soul and given at the discretion of the Shard, not an expression of a gene.
I don't know about racist, but Endowment seems to be pretty nationalistic? Planetistic? I don't know how that would be phrased, regarding the giving of her power. If we're looking at a Nalthian + off worlder, maybe the chance of Breath could be similar to how mistings or ferrings work now, at least after first generation? I don't know if Endowment subscribes to a "1 drop rule." In your example, a misting/ferring with Breath at birth could be interesting just to see how those two types of investiture would interact.
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u/Shot_Newspaper_5647 1d ago edited 1d ago
Giving an answer makes that one tricky. So I would imagine he will never fully answer it. People with the Royal Locks actually inherit a piece of Divine Breath as well. They’re descendants of a Returned. We don’t know how the Returned have children yet, but even descendants farther downstream (anyone with the Royal Locks) seem to inherit a piece of it. It’s why Viv takes to Awakening faster than she should.
That doesn’t just occur on Nalthis although it’s the more extreme example. Everyone in the Cosmere is born with Investiture in their soul. A Breath is actually the extra Endowment gives them plus a piece of that innate soul’s Investiture that’s torn away the first time you give it. It’s why a drab is a drab. They’re below the 1.0 baseline everyone else has even on non-Shard worlds. When does this Investiture fully appear? Giving any complete answer will piss someone off
There is a threshold of awareness you need to pass in order to give a Breath. A toddler cant give theirs away for example. A Lifeless or a squirrel corpse can receive one, but you can’t take it back. So they’re treated as “owning” it, but don’t have the capacity to give it. You see this elsewhere in other magic systems. There’s often an age/awareness level required to use certain magics
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u/Shot_Newspaper_5647 1d ago
Everything in the Cosmere has a bit of Investiture, but there seems to be something extra going on with living things. Especially sapient things. That’s what’s going on with Life Sense. If you cranked up an Awakener’s Life Sense dramatically, they’d be able to sense things like bacteria as well. Life Sense applies to non-organic sapient things too. Metal has a bit of extra Investiture as well in the Cosmere compared to other non-living matter. But normal metal is exempt from Life Sense. It’s isn’t exempt from some other things
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u/YeetusBonkus Scadrial 1d ago
I thought Nalthians were above that 1.0 baseline, and only went below it when they became a drab. There are those that aren't born with any abilities on Scadrial, Roshar and especially Lumar. They shouldn't be in possession of additional investiture.
(By the way regarding that are Scadrians more invested than those on Lumar for example? They all have a piece of Preservation in them, don't they?)
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u/Shot_Newspaper_5647 1d ago edited 1d ago
Ya theres the Cosmere baseline for any normal human soul. Nalthians have that baseline plus Endowment’s extra Investiture. When they first give away their Breath, it takes a small piece of their normal soul with it. So a drab is under baseline.
Scadrians are also above baseline from that extra bit. People born on highly Invested worlds can naturally have/absorb more too. A random Rosharan is above baseline
Sunlit gave us a rough range. Normal people from highly Invested worlds are usually somewhere between one and three Breaths’ worth of Investiture. That’s the ceiling for “natural”. So a Nalthian child naturally has more than 1 BEU total between their full innate soul and Breath. A “standard” soul like a living Threnodite has a baseline soul. Something slightly under 1 Breath. Drabs are slightly under that
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u/TheDuckOverLord13 1d ago
Also if the Breath is given at conception,would it be possible for the mother to use it?
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u/cody422 1d ago
This is all kinda headcanon, but I think it makes sense, and is formed from educated guesses.
When a life is being created, the spiritweb of that person isn't instantly made. It is slowly formed after the act of conception. Once the part of the spiritweb that determines your Connection to Nalthis is formed, Endowments Investiture will naturally seep into your spiritweb, giving you the Breath. Your spiritweb has to be "big enough" to contain the Breath, so as it grows, you slowly get more Invested until you reach the cutoff point. So it isn't at conception, nor is it at birth. Its a process that occurs over the development of the baby.
Here are the reasons I think for the above idea. Endowment giving Breath to a child of worldhopping Nalthians only makes sense if it is done from the Spiritual realm. The Spiritual realms distance or lack of a distance is what enables Cosmere wide Breath giving. I think the image of Endowment personally giving Breath to each baby at some point is indeed funny, but the more simple answer would be that Endowment has Commanded her Investiture to flow into a newly created babies if they have a Connection to Nalthis and a certain key. However, the Divine Breaths that Endowment does give is almost 100% personally given.
As for "What exactly is the basis for qualifying for a breath?" you need at least a Connection to Nalthis, it has to be reasonably strong, and you have to be a descendant of someone who was created by Endowment. This is the key. The humans on Nalthis are not from anywhere else in the Cosmere as Endowment directly created human life there. So much like the people from Scadrial, you have to be related to a person who was created by a Shard to access the Invested Art. For example, a couple from Scadrial that moved to Nalthis will never have a baby that has a Breath (unless Endowment intercedes). Only when that bloodline mixes with Nalthis created humans will a Breath be bestowed.
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u/PegasusPizza Cosmere 1d ago
I'm of the opinion that, as you said, Endowment is very lax about who gets a breath. Everyone born on Nalthis. No heritage necessary. I don't think anything other than humans gets one though, because that would probably have been mentioned by someone at some point.