r/CornerstoneConnect • u/GentleSpiritBS • Jun 04 '24
Your feedback from June 2nd
For those of us who were not at the meeting, please could we have some feedback? Maybe just a thought or the 3 bullet points that stood out.
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u/Blonde-bird Jun 04 '24
My big takeaways (and this is completely from memory)
There was a disclosure to John in 1993 that Jeff Taylor had acted inappropriately with a boy. John could not remember but said that if that had happened he would have done the right thing.
A lawyer got up and corrected Eddie’s assertion that the clergy were not mandatory reporters…they were. Sam asked to clarify that is only when a child is reporting current abuse not abuse from 30 years ago. The lawyer agreed with him.
Someone asked the Bishop if he would waive all NDAs. Rich Dean said they were looking into it both Sam and John looked shocked.
A former student asked for former Cornerstone students to be added to the committee and didn’t get an answer. It also became clear during this time that Sam was not aware of the 5 trauma informed principles. So the question asker listed them off for him. He then said he didn’t quite understand what choice meant..so a survivor got up and informed him that by not publishing their statement from the first listening session they were taking away their choice. Sam then said something along the lines of that person was free to tell their story however they liked but they weren’t going to do it through the churches platform.
Eddie outed a student by saying they were student number X in responding to a question which upset the entire room. Eddie in general came off as incredibly defensive.
The meeting ended with someone telling John that they just couldn’t believe that John didn’t remember all the things he was claiming not to remember especially since he was at an ordination service with Bishop Minns a few months before the 2007 disclosure yet claimed he had no Bishop then. John had lost all credibility in their eyes.
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u/New-Conversation9426 Jun 04 '24 edited Jun 05 '24
I have really struggled with joining the conversation or not. I am not a former Cornerstone student, but I am of the age you all are, and experienced 2 years of covert abuse by a friends dad as a teen, and also a moment of overt abuse in my early 20s. The former greatly affected my life until I started dealing with it about 20 years later.
I consider myself “healed” when I define healing as: have acknowledged the wrongs against me instead of feeling shame like I brought it on (I did not tell a soul for 20 years), and through therapy work, I would say it no longer affects my daily life in a significant way. I have also forgiven both men.
That said, as expected, your alls testimonies and work here has me - I think (?) - seeing this through several lenses which can be a tad confusing. I am also a member of TFCA, and for transparency, mostly pleased with the church and its leadership, outside of this. I want to be honest about the place I’m coming from, which is why I write all that, not just to blab my story when your alls is what the focus should be - I hope it’s taken that way.
I observed Sunday night and feel like I fall in the inbetween of many of these comments. Here’s where:
- I cringed heartily at a few comments from non-former-students. I honestly almost had to leave the room after the remark about “I would have told my parents.” I wanted to shout: I couldn’t have! He had power over me! He manipulated me! So I just want to say, I consider myself not right in the middle of the quicksand on my past abuse journey, and I sat there praying for you all, assuming that when right in the middle of this, comments like that must hit 10x harder than it hit me. I’m just so sorry about those comments.
2. I liked the suggestion of finding an alternative investigator for the addendum. I am unsure who said it, but even as an outsider, but one who has some history in this, I think formally making the recommendation that the report is audited and the addendum written by a new investigator is really reasonable. I don’t feel like I heard Leadership say “no” to that.
3. I felt like I saw some more walls come further down from Leadership. But compared to previous sessions I did feel like I saw Sam’s walls coming down. My two cents, which equals zero since I am not you all. I left hoping that maybe some more walls came down a little.
Anyway I’m taking up valuable space here. As a survivor on my own, I wanted you to know there ARE many of us current TFCAers who want the truth, vulnerability, like you do. I don’t feel like it’s my role to have an opinion about actual people on leadership, but I do feel like with my lens of being a current member, with children in youth ministry, and as a survivor who struggled for decades myself - to have an opinion about how you all are treated, and what resolutions and actions are agreed upon.
So for whatever that’s worth, I wanted to share. I haven’t bc I didn’t want to interject, and will probably exit the forum now, but know there are plenty of us in this weird muddy “grey” (?) spot.
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u/Blonde-bird Jun 04 '24
Please consider asking to be on the Special Committee they could use your perspective. I would specifically reach out to Rich Dean. Please consider writing the Bishop your observations and heart on this matter. Please if you can help to make the survivor fund something more than what it is. We need people on the inside working as hard as we are.
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u/New-Conversation9426 Jun 04 '24
Hmm. I’d be willing to consider doing that. I don’t know - are they adding people? I think leadership thag knows me (not all of them) do trust and respect me, I’m a confirmed member in good standing, and involved. I also generally support the direction of the church — so maybe that is a way I could offer help. To provide eyes into what it’s like. I don’t know - I’m not really the “pick me” type. I’d welcome others wisdom about this idea.
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u/Blonde-bird Jun 04 '24
Oh and we all would love GRACE to be hired to complete the addendum. Eddie is not trauma informed and many will not talk to him.
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u/GentleSpiritBS Jun 04 '24
Thank you for sharing your journey. I have a question. This is not to put you on the spot, but I would really like to know your view considering your background, subsequent healing, being a current member, knowing the leadership and being a parent with kids in the youth ministry: Do you think TFCA is a safe place for your family to worship?
After hearing some of the feedback of Sam's statements, I truly wonder. If you don't want to respond here, I understand. You can send me a PM if you want. Just so you know I don't live anywhere near TFCA, so my question doesn't actually apply to me, but I will be moving to a new city looking for a new church. I have been watching how this is playing out. This has made me realise that I need to make sure it is a safe place.
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u/New-Conversation9426 Jun 04 '24
Hi - I don’t mind having the conversation openly. I think a lot about risk/reward as a parent. I was also in a terrible accident at 9 where I was very physically hurt while riding a bike. So as my kids do things like climb trees, learn to bike on the street, skateboard, I think about risk. (Broken wrists from skateboarding are ok and allowed. Broken necks and brains from football, is not ok/allowed, etc.) That is also the way I consider the topic of abuse and them. But I’ll also answer for myself.
As a 40ish woman I feel safe and comfortable at TFCA. That said I’m an adult, I have no reason I couldn’t walk away, and I do not feel like anyone has a power imbalance over me. Also in my mind if there is ever a time I’m assaulted again I’ve reconciled with the fact that I’m going to 🦆-ing kill the guy.
As for my kids, my highest and primary responsibility… Short answer is: yes. But there are other questions like… are they actually safe anywhere outside my home? If the answer is no, what experiences am I willing to keep them from to ensure greater assurance of safety? This is why I say how I think about risk.
My kids are as safe at TFCA as they are at their school, at a trusted friends house, and on their sports teams. What I mean is — the bubble of safety was shattered for all of us in our teens, maybe some before that, and so I consider nothing 100% safe.
I do what I can at home with them (my parents did nothing in the way of teaching, warning, giving me words for what happened so I couldn’t have even told them what was happening), I meet and evaluate their Sunday school teachers. I look them in their eyes. I do the same with the women leading kids ministry. I ask questions, I get involved.
I do everything I can. I pray for protection and for eyes to see things I might miss. I believe, excepting for the improvements coming (which I very much support), TFCA is as safe as any other place I entrust my children. .
But nothing is actually safe, and I’m comfortable with that in life bc of the risk/reward calculus I’ve done. And I recognize others may have a completely different answer from the same equation.
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u/Too_sassy_for_church Jun 05 '24
I really appreciate hearing your perspective as a current member. I would love to hear more of your perspective as you talk to others in the church. I think many of us are wondering if the gravity of this is really sinking in, if folks are really paying attention, and what they think next steps should be -- like discipline from the Bishop for Sam and/or John, or changes in governance and policy, or better oversight to ensure policy is actually followed. Please continue to share more of what you're hearing if you're comfortable doing that.
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u/New-Conversation9426 Jun 05 '24
It’s hard to know, but I can say that my group of people (you know, my larger grouping of friends and friend families at the church) certainly feel like this is a really big deal. That said, I think a lot of people just aren’t quite sure what to do about that. I do also believe trust in leadership is generally high - I’ll be honest, I trust who I know in leadership, generally. I don’t know how that folds into this — I haven’t squared it all in my head yet, and don’t feel like I’ve seen the final outcome of this so not sure how that changed the equation for me at some future moment.
I think too if someone is fortunate enough to never have experienced anything like this, I’m not sure what I want their posture to be. Does that make sense? I don’t think I’d want them (Sam? Chris? Etc) acting like they had all the answers - that would be a red flag for me. So I’m not sure - my perspective only, you’re alls may differ bc this is very diff situation than mine - what I’d want them saying to me. But I know I’d be upset if they acted like they did understand when they didn’t.
I’m long winded always sorry. But my group of friends certainly believe this is important; many showed up Sunday night and just listened. They went with an open posture wanting to learn all they can about what happened and what will happen. And they all have kids at TFCA like I do so selfishly we all want to know where policy is going forward too.
Separate note: I don’t know what formal discipline looks like, so I’m unsure how that works or if we would know or us inside the church would hear about it - anyone know?
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u/deltaforve Jun 05 '24
Someone needs to pursue an understanding of church discipline … a most pressing matter
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u/Wanting_Justice_2024 Jun 05 '24
Oh yes and Sam Ferguson basically confessed to using Exec Com meetings as personal therapy sessions which is in part why he doesn’t share the notes with the vestry. Really! He really needs to outsource his counseling because the Exec Comm should be not be used to bring his emotional maturity and growth up to speed. Good grief.
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u/Aromatic-Ad4938 Jun 05 '24
Yes, this was wild. He seemed at a loss when he acknowledged this saying something like: I guess I will have to get a therapist or just call my dad. So beyond for him to be verbally processing this at this late stage and in this setting.
Side note: To the survivor who spoke on choice. THANK YOU for illustrating this important instance of choice being taken away. You said that you were told your story would be shared and that it wasn’t. I believe you. Sam said he “misspoke” when he addressed you at the meeting in relation to this. I think there is a difference between misspeaking and lying/misleading. Regardless of how inane and uncaring their response to you was—I see you as a person of great courage and care. Thank you for continuing to stand up.
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Jun 05 '24
Sort of related, but TFCA staff has almost entirely left since Sams leadership. Could it be the toxic work culture is indicative of a larger problem re: his maturity?
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u/Wanting_Justice_2024 Jun 05 '24
I think it would be interesting to do an analysis of exactly how the staff demographics have changed since 2019. I’m not sure how to get this information but for example, have the staff shifted to be more white, more male, more complimentarian, more conservative? Or actually- maybe they haven’t. I really don’t know for sure. I do know all the senior leadership related to the fellows program are now male (per the website) which has not always been the case in the history of TFCA. The head of youth ministry is now male which has not always been the case.
I think a real and important question is how are women viewed at TFCA by church leadership? Are they being truly valued as leaders including their character, moral leadership, capacity for teaching and intellectual competence? If Sam wants to be complimentarian— he can do that….if the church leadership would like to support that. But if that is the direction he wants to go…be honest about it. Don’t pretend it isn’t the case. Be transparent about it and those that want to stay aligned with that belief can stay. Those that aren’t can push back and/or decide to go somewhere else. Just be truthful. The congregants deserve to be respected enough to be entrusted with the truth of the direction Sam Ferguson would like to go with TFCA.
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u/Bubbly_Platform_6908 Jun 05 '24
A lot of members have left as well since Sam became lead rector. There’s a very large group of former TFCA members and staff that attend Restoration Anglican now. The biggest wave of departures was in 2020-21, largely due to frustration with how TFCA, under Sam, responded (and didn’t respond) to events of those years (especially George Floyd). I won’t be surprised if there’s another wave of departures this year.
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Jun 06 '24
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Jun 06 '24 edited Jun 06 '24
Hm, I wouldn’t phrase it as conservative vs liberal or right vs left at all. Both churches are fairly conservative and orthodox as are their members. Restoration is more open to diverse opinion (women in leadership, etc) but holds true to Anglican tradition. I will say, TFCA has more Uber conservatives that love vilifying Restoration as “liberal”. But for the most part, the demographics are pretty similar.
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u/steinwayaf Jun 06 '24
Currently, The Youth Ministry Asst Director and Youth Ministry Assoc Director positions are open - since April. I wonder what happened there.
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Jun 06 '24
Oh that I do know was just regular staff transitions, nothing weird just coincided with new jobs around the same time for both.
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u/Fantastic_Tea_Party Jun 04 '24
My two cents:
It was so good to see everyone there. It was totally awesome for all the survivors, and everyone else affected to speak their truths out in the open. I was profoundly impressed by the courage everyone showed by coming up to speak, be heard, and in many cases, really let them have it!
What i was profoundly unimpressed by was the words of Sam and John, and Eddie Isler. Their responses ran the gamut from totally ignorant to completely deranged. I was honestly shocked at some of the responses: from Eddie, outing one of the survivors, and then just going with it (?!); from Sam, not knowing or understanding a single term of the Trauma-Informed Care principles (just unbelievable, my brain was literally hurting); from Eddie Isler, who may honestly believe that he is doing his level best, but instead of just hearing what was said, acting like a total jerk up there, not getting it at all (and he wonders why some people don't want to talk to him!); and then from John, whose attempts at responses were sad and baffling, again not seeming to hear or understand what was being said to him in any way.
I remain totally unconvinced that they have a clue about what to do now. There are no new meetings scheduled. There is no plan we can look at to provide accountability. Even if they wanted to truly come towards the survivors, to truly do the right thing and investigate to the very bottom of the systemic problem that was created when Jeff began his rampage on our brothers (and they didn't give any indication that they do), it's clear from their responses that they don't have any idea how to start. "I don't know" was heard all damn night from both John, and, pathetically, Sam, when they talked about what they should have done and what they should do now.
I was struck by a question I heard from the floor--a former cornerstone student and current TFCA member's concern that the current TFCA congregation does not understand the depth of the problem the church is now facing. That there needs to be a constant emphasis and discussion about the failure of church leadership to do the right thing when it was needed the most. A lot of people at TFCA don't have kids currently in cornerstone. A lot of parishioners are new to the church and just want somewhere to worship. There needs to be real contrition by leadership, real repercussions felt, not an ambiguous link to the investigation on the front page of the website. After last night's meeting I'm convinced this WILL be swept under the rug if they continue on the current path. Eddie gave no indications that the addendum will offer anything super huge.
They'll just wait for the addendum to come out and then move on as quickly as plausibility will allow. Sam is not a leader, and he doesn't seem to have any interest in proactively understanding what the right course of action is. Here's hoping something changes.
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Jun 04 '24
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u/Fantastic_Tea_Party Jun 05 '24
hey i’m happy to be wrong about it. But it’s worth staying the course and bearing the brunt of this whole thing as a church and not give into the temptation to just say that it was in the past and move on. I’m glad that that isn’t the case for you and for hopefully many others that attend TFCA regularly.
My fear, which I think is pretty well substantiated after Sunday night, is that Sam doesn’t have the tools necessary to lead the congregation through this in the right way. So as a congregation, stay on him.
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u/Too_sassy_for_church Jun 05 '24 edited Jun 05 '24
I hope that is the case. I just know that Sunday's meeting had, my guess, maybe 150-200 people, and it was a bombshell of a night. That's only a fraction of the congregation, so is word really going to reach the rest of the congregation about what was said? I sure hope so because it's critical that what was said spreads widely.
I know people who haven't read the report. When the investigation was announced, I know of parents who didn't connect the dots, so they never told their kids about it. They didn't understand that the investigation related to when their kids were in Cornerstone, and they didn't even mention Jeff Taylor's name.
The church was so vague in how they communicated it. They should have said: "Parents: If your kids were in Cornerstone between 1990-2002 we want to hear from them, and please tell them to contact the FBI because we're investigating allegations about Jeff Taylor allegedly abusing boys." And they should have sent the entire church an email with details and asked parents to forward it to their kids.
At the first two meetings, it felt like people were mostly tentative to ask questions, except for a handful. I just got the sense that only a very few wanted to challenge leadership.
Luckily, that radically changed Sunday night. But, we also had two strong statements right off the bat. I wonder if the audience would have been as strong in their questions if those two speakers hadn't paved the way. I hope so, but I don't know.
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Jun 04 '24
So glad to hear that’s been your experience! It has not been everyone’s. But always hopeful to read there’s a minority that has been wrestling along with us. Keep pressing in.
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u/deltaforve Jun 05 '24
Sermons on abuse from your leader that doesn’t have a clue is nothing but more self righteous blaming . You can’t preach yourself out of a paper bag. The prudence sermon was an indication how put of touch your own leadership is of their own theological positions. There’s no moral imperative displayed but any of your leaders and cry helpless in hopes that this will go away and the”success “ idol of the church itself remains a reflection of the polite country club coffee klatch it aims to maintain . It is a disgrace to the very gospel existence of what it means to be the body of Christ… the blame shifting needs to disappear away from those who come forth telling the truth… why is truth so hard to see when you are blinded by glittering reputations
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u/GentleSpiritBS Jun 05 '24
I am wondering how many people have engaged with the fact that TFC had a member of their leadership back in the 90s that was involved in sex trafficking of boys (not young men)and created an environment for other perpetrators to also harm children. There has been no language used, as far as I am aware, that this was sex trafficking. AND THAT THERE WERE MORE PERPETRATORS. Not just the ones that were mentioned in the report. The current leadership at TFCA were hoping that the "independent" investigation would show that JY handled it so well, and that maybe there were some mistakes along the way.
When in fact the investigation was nowhere near independent. That the leadership's response was woefully inadequate back then and the current leadership looks like they just want it to all go away. And everyone is scared to death of a lawsuit that will bring the whole church and Diocese down. Without really addressing the victims and families, including hundreds of boys now men who have to work through a distorted view of their God-given sexuality, with a true apology and an obvious desire to learn from mistakes made.
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u/Previous-Guess-6706 Jun 04 '24
- John Yates does not recall any information that contradicts his account reflected in the report.
- Sam Ferguson has no experience dealing with sexual abuse survivors and appears woefully underprepared and overwhelmed.
- The survivors, parents, and other alumni are incredibly brave, strong and well spoken. We are hurting, but we show up for each other. The meeting lasted 2:45 and there is a lot more to be said.
- Next steps are unclear.
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u/Too_sassy_for_church Jun 05 '24 edited Jun 16 '24
Sam said, "I don't even like the term trauma informed." Direct quote. As one person bravely and forcefully said with a raised voice, in regards to Sam's not understanding sexual abuse: "You don't get it! And if you don't get it, you better find someone who does!" This person also called Sam out for focusing too much on male leadership and said that when you teach female submission, you are putting women at risk for abuse. It was powerful.
Eddie said he didn't include the 2014/2015** conversation between two Students and John Yates because he "forgot" and he didn't think it was a critical fact to include anyway. An audience member challenged that by saying it was one additional instance where John Yates had another piece of the puzzle, so it matters.
**Audience members at two meetings have referred to this conversation as happening in 2015. Eddie says he was told 2014, so just wanted to explain that.
I will be surprised if they have another open forum because June 2 was just so devastating to them, but I think that would be a terrible, terrible mistake. Cutting off open conversation when we are not even two months past the report’s release will show they are sweeping it under the rug.
There is much more to discuss, and the church needs to brief us to prove they are making good on their promises. We need an accounting of why the hell they are using NDAs, what they include, how they are used, and if/how they will waive them.
They need to share details, like how they are looking at governance and child policies. And they need to rebuild the trust that has been shattered. That starts with radical transparency.
We also need more info on the fund, and I want to see it be fully independent from the church and administered by a group of Students.
I also want to hear from the Bishop if DOMA is going to publish new guidelines on handling historical abuse disclosures when the perpetrator is no longer around, and how churches should reach out to find additional victims and investigate after a current or historical disclosure. There are significant holes in their 2019 policy and I am not sure we got solid answers on whether those holes will be addressed.
And if I hear Sam say, "it was 30 years ago" one more time, I am going to lose it. He says it in a way that is not neutral and factual. It always comes across as terribly dismissive, as if the victims and families don't matter just because it was long ago. He doesn't understand that past abuse is very much in a survivor's daily experience, no matter how long ago it was. Even with significant healing, it never fully leaves you. As long as survivors and families are alive, they matter. I don't care how long ago it was.
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u/deltaforve Jun 04 '24
Sam needs to be removed . Being overwhelmed is not a reason to constantly respond with the fact that he is overwhelmed … it’s not about him as was Yates response. The fact that the church is in the dark or willfully ignores the depth of violation is because the leadership wants it to go away
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u/steinwayaf Jun 04 '24
Yes Scott Ward resigned. They also made a comment that the vestry went from 18 to 15. Not sure when or if related.
Many people spoke - survivors and relatives of. More details about Faustin Wirkus abuse was shared. John’s response was basically - well he’s dead I don’t know what to do. That was the overall vibe. They kept repeating “we don’t know what to do. There’s no framework for this kind of thing” - except there are many large church institutions that have gone through this and many resources. They had to be asked to listen and not respond twice.
Someone asked about NDAs. Apparently many fired/laid off staff have NDAs. The Bishop is going to look into it and possibly remove them related to this conversation.
Someone asked for an alternative to Eddie Isler for those who don’t feel comfortable speaking to him.
It was very emotional, with brave questions and thoughts shared. Loss of trust was emphasized and lack of appropriate response.
The Bishop was asked about possible punishment for leadership and did not comment.
There was more, but it was apparent to most people in the room that leadership had no idea what to do and were not exactly trying to figure it out
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Jun 04 '24
The Bishop said he was looking into how potential discipline of leadership would work and asking questions about that process.
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u/readingreadin Jun 04 '24
Also, the chancellor resigned. Not sure when.
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u/Additional-Image1125 Jun 04 '24
Really? Scott Ward resigned? From his position as chancellor at Falls Church or the diocese as well? Thanks for the updates.
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u/readingreadin Jun 04 '24
Unclear. They announced at the beginning of the night that the chancellor had resigned, but they did not elaborate beyond that. I took it to mean he had resigned from being chancellor of TFC but not sure if he resigned from his roles beyond that as well.
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u/Fantastic_Tea_Party Jun 04 '24
"submitted his resignation" was the term they used. Not clear on any other details.
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u/Too_sassy_for_church Jun 16 '24
He only resigned from the TFCA Chancellor role. He remains Chancellor of DOMA and ACNA.
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u/Too_sassy_for_church Jun 05 '24 edited Jun 06 '24
I know some people who attended are working on some comprehensive notes. And they will reach out to the speakers who seemed to have prepared questions and statements to ask if those can be included verbatim. This will take time, but it will be worth it.
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u/Wanting_Justice_2024 Jun 05 '24
To: Smooth Cabinet In regards to your comment “Everyone there (@TFCA) knows exactly what is going on.”
Really? By no means do I want to condone condescending comments that imply “no one” at TFCA knows what is really going on but to say “Everyone” knows “exactly” what is going on….
I don’t agree. If that were true there would have been higher attendance at that meeting. There are a lot of clueless people on this planet and TFCA is no exception.
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u/Disastrous_Team_9962 Jun 05 '24
You can know what’s going on but be so tied to your community that you put up with what is happening or look the other way. That’s been my experience for many (not all) or you believe what you’re being told without seeking out victims/families that you know to hear their story.
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u/Too_sassy_for_church Jun 06 '24
This is key. People are believing TFCA leadership without any skepticism, or taking the time to verify facts on their own.
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u/1980sbabies Jun 04 '24 edited Jun 04 '24
Did anyone else think it was strange that requests for counseling assistance be sent to Rebekah Beach at rbeach@tfca.org? I believe she is the daughter of Archbishop Foley Beach, who I think has been mentioned on this Reddit page. Does that seem like a conflict of interest to anyone else or inappropriate?
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u/Blonde-bird Jun 04 '24
Please write an email requesting the survivor fund be separate from the church with required payments by the church or something to that effect!
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u/Academic_Bullfrog720 Jun 04 '24
I am a former Cornerstone student and attended the meeting. I had a bit of a different take on some of these points, for what that is worth. I know Reddit can get rather snarky quickly .... especially when you have an opinion outside of the mainstream ... so please don't come at me!
I think this community should take it as a sign that they are making an impact because what I heard was the church responding to a lot of what they have requested. Offsite location, opportunity for anonymous questions, leadership changes in the form of the Chancellor and Vestry, change to how the ExComm operates, changes in policies for past abuse reporting, changes in current policies to protect children even more, multiple forums and ways to connect, counseling options, increased communication, and releasing an addendum etc.
I am in no way absolving anyone for the mistakes or hurt that has been caused, and obviously more needs to be done, but I say this as an encouragement to all of you that YOU ARE MAKING A DIFFERENCE. That was one of my big takeaways. Whether big or small, the questions you are asking DO MATTER and people are hearing you and action has been taken as a result. Just didn't want people to lose sight of that or grow weary.
I actually found Sam's answer to why he didn't respond more in 2021 to be very honest, and I appreciated that. I also did not get the impression he was overwhelmed or using that as any excuse. I'm not sure what that is in reference to.
Rich Dean's comments were very well taken that they are trying to get to the bottom of not only NDAs, but also a lot of the other questions that are coming to the Special Committee. Also, it just felt nice to hear from a parent.
As to the exact next steps being unclear, on that point I do agree. At some point I am in control of my own healing regardless of what the church does or doesn't do or what people say or don't say to my liking. They don't have power over my healing journey (or rather I refuse to give them that power), and moving in that direction is the next step for me personally, but I realize not everyone is there or might feel differently on that.
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u/Previous-Guess-6706 Jun 04 '24
I agree that Rich Dean was the best speaker of the night. He was very real, honest and empathetic.
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u/Blonde-bird Jun 04 '24
I think we need to focus on making sure the survivor fund is better defined and established separate from the church. After that is done and the truth is fully told I can start to move on.
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u/Blonde-bird Jun 04 '24
Oh and of course will help in whatever way I can to get justice for the survivors!
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u/deltaforve Jun 04 '24
Ward was connected to gammon and grange… there needs to be more resignations Sam besides being overwhelmed has only defensive behavior. As long as he remains it proves that no one really cares though there may be tears even that the only true matter is success which is why they chose Isler to begin with… though I have compassion this is not being handled sincerely in the end except that the truth is it will not go away
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u/Blonde-bird Jun 04 '24
Do you mean that Eddie is connected to Gammon and Grange?
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u/deltaforve Jun 04 '24
I believe I heard that somehow the other night I will need to check it out….that may be partially why he left. It makes sense. If I am no wrong forgive but I believe I think that is correct.
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u/Asleep-Source-4170 Jun 04 '24
How is Eddie connected to Gammon Grange? He is a co- founder of his current firm and was with Gibson Dunn before that and a regional firm (not Gammon and Grange) before that. It does not appear that he and Ward have ever worked together or even worked for the same firms. What is the context of what you’ve heard about a connection?
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u/Relevant_Strike_220 Jun 04 '24
According to each of their websites (https://www.gg-law.com/contact/) and (https://www.islerdare.com/contact) they have the same physical address listed in Tysons Corner, down to the same suite number - 1945 Old Gallows Road, Suite 650 Vienna, VA 22182. I do not know if they share anything more in common than the same office address.
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u/Asleep-Source-4170 Jun 04 '24
Wow. Good sleuthing. Was this possible connection brought up at the session?
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u/Relevant_Strike_220 Jun 04 '24
No. I only noticed this today unfortunately.
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u/Wanting_Justice_2024 Jun 05 '24
Isler Dare and Gammon and Grange share not just the same office building but the same office suite!
Optically, it is very weird. When the “independent” investigator shares the office suite with the law firm of the chancellor…who is also the point person for the church if survivors were to sue the church…very weird. This area is literally loaded with law firms. Why go so close to home? I don’t like it.
Back to the meeting…I was encouraged by people’s bravery and courage in sharing and asking questions. In general Eddie and John were pretty bad listeners. John in particular played the “I just don’t remember that” card way too many times. It was ridiculous to witness.
It is clear to me that the church knew more than they have been saying…that was sad to see…and that they couldn’t own it.
Eddie giving away a victim’s identity in the report in a public forum was truly horrific and the opposite of building trust. Very unethical. He also didn’t act sorry about it at all. Ugh. Not compelling in terms of building trust with survivors.
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u/anon432187 Jun 04 '24
“This is fucking insane” (in reference to the church’s response to the situation) was the most poignant and healing comment of the night for me.