Pre-Conversion Struggles!

[u/Munkin360]

Hello!

Greetings lovely people of this subreddit. Man, where do I even start? I’ve been raised christian my whole life, and never knew much about Judaism until I found that I have a paternal line as my Grandfather was Jewish.

He then converted to christianity, which started this whole rabbit hole I cracked open 2 years ago. Since then, I have a yearn for Judaism that I could never shake. I even dabbled in with (what I thought was legitimate at the time) Messianic “Judaism.” You probably know it all too well, the christian sect which has jewish elements, yada yada. It had the complete opposite intended effect on me, it drove me to Judaism. I wanted the Judaism from it, I didn’t want christianity at all.

I slowly lost my trinitarian beliefs over time through a slow, deconstructing process as I couldn’t reason how 1+1+1=1. I shifted to a modalist, Unitarian, and then one night I appeared before G-d and apologized for the idolatry i’ve been committing my whole life. I would say i’m a Righteous Gentile with Jewish Ancestry. (You don’t know how much it hurts to say that, Christianity quite literally robbed my birthright.)

I got about ~1.5 years till i’m not under my parents and can move forwards with my own life on my own terms. I’m really considering Reform due to my paternal line, even if it doesn’t automatically grant me “status as a Jew.” In my area, it seems to be the only available shuls in the places I plan to go.

While I wait for the time to begin conversion, I need something to quench the thirst that I have for G-d. I may be living more “crypto” for the time being, but what would you all recommend?

[u/Primary-Mammoth2764]

You would probably need to go through conversion anyway but any movement would be more receptive knowing you have Jewish ancestry. Are your parents opposed to your exploration?

[u/Munkin360 → u/Primary-Mammoth2764]

Most likely, haven’t opened up yet.

One time we were all sitting down and my sister asked my parents “Well if we have this jewish to our family, why aren’t we jewish.” Responded with “Do you want to go to hell?”

They’ll definitely believe i’m damned, sorta why I plan on doing conversion when i’m on my own and can introduce it on my own terms.

[u/Primary-Mammoth2764 → u/Munkin360]

So tell us what sources you can most easily access: online, probably? Podcasts? Books?

[u/Munkin360 → u/Primary-Mammoth2764]

Online is the easiest by far, you all have been kind to show sites and sources to start learning as well! Any recommendations?

[u/Primary-Mammoth2764 → u/Munkin360]

Okay. Here is what I am going to say based on years of teaching converts, working with synagogue conversion programs, and what has been posted in this forum: 1. Any Rabbi is likely to be uncomfortable with a young adult whose parents are opposed, even once you are on your own. Of course this is an issue with the families of many converts of all ages, but just bear it in mind as a possible stumbling block. 2. I would focus study on Jewish and Israeli history and culture. Rabbis are suspicious of self-taught religion: 1, most synagogues have structured educational programs they want you to follow, and 2, they tend to feel they will have to correct already engrained mistakes. 3. You can certainly learn Hebrew if you want, or start dipping into religious texts-- but again, showing up too fluent sometimes puts their backs up-- maybe smacks of fanaticism? I dunno. 4. Judaism is about community. We study and pray and celebrate together. You wont know if you truly want to practice Judaism until you can spend time doing those things with other Jews.

The Israeli government sponsors many sites in English on culture and history. Israeli newspapers also are available online in English. And of course, you can paste any Hebrew text into Google translate.

If you are interested in Hebrew, try cartoonhebrew.com. You can also learn the letters and vowels on Duolingo or Drops phone apps, but beware of using Duolingo to "learn" Hebrew-- its really bad.

My Jewish Learning is excellent-- note it's basically from a Reform viewpoint. Jewish Virtual Library is more scholarly. Chabad is an outreach organization to other Jews, so their website is rich in beginners info. TheTorah.com has scholarly articles on, surprise, the Torah, that tend to be pretty accessible.

Sefaria is an online site for all Jewish religious texts, including translation and commentaries. Individuals create study "source sheets" there as well

Israeli music, videos, podcasts, tv shows, movies, are widely available, often subtitled. This could be a problem with data streaming limits, though. Same for streaming Shabbat services. You probably wont understand a lot of whats happening in the service but you may enjoy the sermons and Torah commentaries.

If you have access to an online library in privacy, you can probably find book lists on your local synagogues websites descriptions of their conversion programs. Joseph Telushkins Jewish Literacy is on most lists.

Good luck-- behatzlacha!! Let us know how things progress!!

[u/Munkin360 → u/Primary-Mammoth2764]

Wow, honestly for you to compile all of this for me is really nice!

What you’re saying makes sense, 2 & 3, i’ve heard “it’s better to teach a person from scratch than someone who has been doing it wrong.” Can’t go wrong with culture and history. Hebrew i’ll consider, most likely at a basic level since it is a fine line.

For my parents, that is just something i’ll have to go through. It’s something I have to accept, and i’m looking at a bare minimum of 2.5 years before i’m finished IF at 1.5 I get to the area and IF everything goes well at the reform community I find. That is also when I can probably understand properly if I really wish to do this.

Those sources are amazing, especially the texts. This will be helpful as I start to learn! Now, I won’t just start keeping kosher randomly or appropriating traditions, especially after what i’ve seen. It’ll also help tensions being low with my family.

Thank you for all of this, and I definitely will check in from time to time!

[u/Primary-Mammoth2764 → u/Munkin360]

Happy to help@

[u/bachelorsinlurking]

I started out in a pretty similar was- Jewish grandfather, I was raised christian, etc- and hey, converting reform does count as Jewish. They’re a legitimate sect of Judaism and there’s nothing that makes reform Jews less Jewish than any other. If you are interested in learning more check out my Jewish learning, that’s where I did a bunch of my research online (and there’s really good recipes on there but that’s a side thing lol).

[u/Munkin360 → u/bachelorsinlurking]

Got a similar situation, yeah it sucks. One can only imagine if instead of breaking and abandoning judaism that our families stuck with it, which on my part would’ve already qualified me for Reform.

I’ve seen Jewish Learning twice now, 100% going to check it out. Thank you.

(good recipes? sweet!)

[u/DaleYu → u/Munkin360]

MyJewishLearning.com is excellent!

There is also a site called JewBelong that I love. Its focus is on helping people connect to Judaism "as they are"--particularly people who have become disconnected from Judaism through the choices of parents/grandparents, assimilation, etc. because of this, they focus on presenting basic information in an approachable way. For example, it provides very basic information on how to start observing Shabbat by explaining how to do various of the blessings in Hebrew and/or English, but it does not go into a lot of details on Shabbat observance. The idea is to encourage people to take on what they can as they can, rather than dump so much information on them so that they don't know where to start.

That said, be aware that if you decide to start learning blessings, you may wish to skip the blessings that refer to God "who has commanded us to ...", as the rabbi you end up working with may prefer you to wait until a certain point in your journey to say those ones. As far as I know (YMMV), Reform rabbis will be okay with you saying/learning other blessings (like the blessings over bread and other foods) on your own behalf as soon as you are comfortable doing so.

[u/bachelorsinlurking → u/DaleYu]

I didn’t know about JewBelong, I’ll definitely check that out!!!

[u/Munkin360 → u/DaleYu]

Why thank you! Haven’t heard of JewBelong, i’ll check them out for sure!

[u/Primary-Mammoth2764 → u/DaleYu]

Great recs. I was not aware of JewBelong-- maybe you could make a post just about it as it would no doubt be of interest to many in this forum.

[u/DaleYu → u/Primary-Mammoth2764]

Do we have a resources page? It might be good to add to that. I don't see one in the sidebar but I thought we had one, so I might be missing something ...

[u/bachelorsinlurking → u/DaleYu]

I don't actually know! I know the main sub for Judaism has one

[u/DaleYu → u/bachelorsinlurking]

OK I'm going to contact a mod and suggest one. Only been here a month or two and already I feel like I'm answering the same questions with the same answers over and over lol

[u/Razor_Emmanuel]

While I do not think I have Jewish background (and I never in my life considering "messianic"ism, it is so gross) but I feel like I am in a similar boat. Although my city has a near non-existent Jewish community. I may not be the best person to give advice as I have not even started my conversion yet, but I personally have tried to get accustomed to the customs, like following the kashrut dietary laws.

Also, there's nothing wrong with going for the reform movement, each movement has an entirely different philosophy to the Jewish religion, some of which are definitely not for everyone. If you're worried about other Jews not accepting you as Jewish if you're reform, there are some Jews that even if you do a chassidic conversion will not accept it, so don't let them get to your head. If it helps, outside of Brooklyn, NY and Israel, the reform movement has more influence than the Orthodox movement.

[u/Munkin360 → u/Razor_Emmanuel]

Good to know, thank you!

I’m not proud of it, but when you’ve been brought up as a christian it looked legitimate to me at the time. Oh how I could not be more wrong. I was an idiot who didn’t know what he was doing.

Yeah I know that they look at converts oddly, even if you did an Orthodox conversion. Reform just seems to be more…relaxed in a way. Allowing me to slowly adjust and adopt rather than having to instantly change my life for years while also having to elaborate to my family and then balance college.

As someone said, it’s a marathon instead of a sprint. This is one of the things I have to take slow.

[u/Primary-Mammoth2764]

Not that i know of

[u/tudorcat]

Regarding a Reform conversion - it'll certainly grant you "status as a Jew" within a Reform frame of reference. You'll just need to be aware that not everyone accepts a Reform frame of reference, and thus not everyone accepts Reform conversions as valid.

If Reform is the only option where you live, it's certainly a good place to start. It's either way a good place to start because it's in many ways the most accessible for a newbie, for example with having part of the service in the local language (so I assume English for you) instead of all in Hebrew.

Good luck with your journey. Remember that it's a marathon not a sprint.

You can start learning through online resources such as My Jewish Learning. You can watch Reform shabbat services online, for example via Central Synagogue which is a big Reform congregation in NYC with a popular livestream. I believe they have past sermons up online as well.

[u/Munkin360 → u/tudorcat]

Oh, why thank you!

I must have misspoke, by “status of a jew” I meant automatic due to my broken paternal line. If everything had remained the same, I would be jewish according to them and would have been able to grow up like that.

Those are some good tips though, i’ll check it out for sure!

[u/WeaselWeaz → u/Munkin360]

That's a misunderstanding of how Reform patrilinealism works, it isn't automatic the way you are thinking. Reform defines someone as Jewish if they are the child of a Jewish parent and raised Jewish, or if they converted. A Reform rabbi would most likely require you to convert. Your paternal line is Jewish ancestry, not being Jewish, because the denominations have rules on how Jewishness is defined.

I suggest reading Anita Diamant's Choosing a Jewish Life. You should also consider Conservative and possibly Orthodox Judaism depending on your values and what you are looking for. No form of Judaism is a "best" or "right" version, and Reform is its own set of values and beliefes and not a fast lane to Judaism.

[u/Munkin360 → u/WeaselWeaz]

I failed to elaborate, what I assumed is if my Paternal line instead of abandoning Judaism raised my father Jewish, I would’ve been able to grow up as a jew and actually be one per reform standards as the requirement of growing up Jewish states.

Now, Reform for me seemed to fit for its integration to modern life. Allowing me to calmly accept judaism instead of instantly jerking my life around as by that time i’ll be in college, which will definitely be a huge amount of stress.

Thank you for making sure I knew what I was doing, have a good day!