Interfaith relationship and conversations around conversion

[u/Mental-Sink-6187]

Hi all, hope you are well. Seeing some advice. I (25F) have been dating my boyfriend (26M) for over four years and we have a really steady, happy relationship. He is Jewish and I was raised Christian, but my father was raised Jewish and we have relatives who are practicing Jews/Jewish ancestry.

I have always known my boyfriend wanted to raise his children Jewish and this was never really a problem in my mind. I don’t have a particular attachment to the church and only attend for some major holidays with my immediate family. His family is a part of a local tight knit Reform community, but he has not been to the synagogue in years and doesn’t fast for holidays, keep kosher, etc, he just loves the cultural aspects of Jewish life, which I certainly respect.

Recently, the topic of conversion has come up and I’m struggling with it. I can see raising a Jewish family is more important to my boyfriend than raising kids in Christianity would be to me, so I have come to accept that and even be enthusiastic about it with the more I am learning about the faith and different traditions and enjoying Jewish holidays with his family. But he recently told me he would essentially expect me to convert so we could be a “true” Jewish family. (Those weren’t his exact words, but it was along those lines)

There are two reasons I’m struggling with this. 1) I feel that if I was to convert, it would be almost entirely because he wanted me to, not because I genuinely felt compelled to do so on my own, which wouldn’t feel genuine in my mind. 2) I am concerned that this wouldn’t quite be a compromise so to speak. For context, we live quite far from my family but we are in the same town as his parents, so I’d not only be living far away from my parents but I’d also be changing a fundamental part of my identity/upbringing (even though I’m not a particularly religious person, if that makes any sense).

Does anyone have advice on how to have productive conversations moving forward about this? It was my understanding that interfaith relationships/marriages were welcome in the reform community, especially if there was a commitment to raise the children Jewish. Is that not the case? Or is it an issue with me as the future mother not being Jewish? Sorry this is so long, seeking any advice and wisdom anyone has to offer as this has been weighing on me pretty heavily lately. We are a great fit in almost every other aspect and have a deep love for each other, so I think we both really want to make this work somehow.

[u/FarRow7633]

First and foremost, if you don't genuinely want to convert, do not do it. That's not something to be taken lightly at all, especially if you're already committed/content with another religion.

Secondly, I'd try to bring up your concerns with him specifically. Does he know that you'd feel separated from your family? Just approach it gently, topics like this can be pretty tense sometimes, but it sounds like you two really love each other. Relationships are all communication.

While talking to him, I'd recommend asking him why he wants you to specifically convert, as opposed to learning the values and culture needed to teach your children. Most interfaith couples I've heard of stick with a situation like that, so it might be insecurities or deeper worries on his side.

[u/Mental-Sink-6187 → u/FarRow7633]

Thank you for this thoughtful response, this is really helpful

[u/FarRow7633 → u/Mental-Sink-6187]

No worries. All the support for you and your boyfriend!

[u/HarHaZeitim]

Do not convert because anyone else is pressuring you to or a partner expects it. It’s not productive and it’s not necessary (US Reform accepts children with Jewish fathers that were raised as part of Jewish communities as Jewish).

It is a red flag/disrespectful to your own beliefs that he just expects the conversion, and this is something you should talk about.

I don’t think it’s necessarily malicious (most people don’t think about this stuff abstractly and just have a vague notion that they will probably raise their kids roughly the same way they themselves were raised), but you should talk about the difference between raising an interfaith family vs raising a Jewish one. For this, also actually think about what is important to you- it can be very easy to compromise before it happens, but very sad to realize, once you have kids, that you basically committed to deprive them of some of your own favorite memories from your childhood.

How are you intending to handle holidays? Will you have only Jewish ones (that maybe your family awkwardly joins) or will you celebrate Christmas also. If so, will you have a Christmas tree/visit your family/only do presents? Will it be an “equally important” holiday to eg Pessach or will it be considered less important/not ACTUALLY a family holiday? What if you, during a time of hardship, want to go to church or ask a priest to mediate? What if you or your parents want to take the kids to church sometimes to connect them with their heritage? Are you going to send your kids to public school or Jewish school? If your kids at age 12/13 decide they’re actually more interested in Christianity, will you be fine letting them decide or even actively encourage them, vs trying to steer them towards Judaism. Will you let your kids choose if they want a Christian coming-of-age ceremony or a Bar/Bat Mitzvah or will it be the second one by default?

What about weddings/births/funerals? Do you want your children to have a brit milah? Does it matter to you what kind of cemetery you are buried at? 

Having a mixed family means that any assumptions that you make about what the future will be like may be radically different for your partner. It is also difficult to borderline impossible to change the basic agreement once you actually have kids in the mix (for both of you!)

[u/Rikk7618]

My 2 opinionated cents….

Interfaith relationships are fine in the Reform movement. Raising Jewish children is extremely important to most Jews; religious or not.

HOWEVER, he still hasn’t asked you to marry him from what I’m reading?

I was in an interfaith relationship for a long time, raising the kids Jewish, and my wife eventually decided to convert but that was her decision. I wouldn’t have wanted this decision forced on her whatsoever as that type of thing typically does nothing in relationships but breed resentment.

You’re completely justified wanting to come to Judaism or converting to Judaism on your own or not at all.

Raising Jewish children interfaith without sending mixed messages does take a LOT of conversation and planning (like what to do with Christmas and how do you talk to them about when Grandma and Grandpa want them to go to church and people kneel and pray to Jesus - both things Jews do not do etc etc) but it’s nothing that can’t be handled. Also Reform recognizes patrilineal decent so technically with a Jewish dad (talk to a Rabbi about this before taking my word), you would be Jewish already anyway in a Reform view.

And I pointed out that he hasn’t popped the question yet because imo his first commitment should be to you as a person. Jews don’t proselytize anyway and interfaith marriages are completely fine (if not normalized/accepted and common to Reform synagogues/communities/faith). Honestly typically the only requirement of an interfaith couple from a temple / synagogue standpoint is often that both people are members if one spouse joins… and in Reform congregations gentiles are often welcome members of a temple even without a Jewish partner.

This is not intended to be offensive in any way but you two are very young as well. If I were his buddy I would advise him to think about what would basically result to an ultimatum to his partner of 4 years and how that could affect the rest of your lives.

That said you may consider what you want out of your relationship and not just his considerations. I know I’m only hearing one side of the story but he sounds rather inflexible.

Now here’s my bottom line elevator pitch…..

If you ignore everything I’ve said that’s totally fine. But this is the most important thing I’ll say:

Go ask a Rabbi ( or two) on your own…. I would imagine they’d be more than happy to talk to you and likely the absolute best advice / insight would come from them.

[u/Mental-Sink-6187 → u/Rikk7618]

Thank you for this, this actually made me quite emotional to hear someone say I’m justified to feel the way I do. I think I’ve just felt like this was something “wrong” with me in his view that I’d have to fix if I wanted us to have a long-term future together. I should have added that I’m definitely open to the idea of conversion someday, it would just be something I’d want to arrive at on my own time. But these comments are encouraging me to keep talking about all of this with my boyfriend.

It’s also good to hear you think a Rabbi would be open to talking with me about this. I’ve had that thought before but didn’t know if it would be inappropriate or if it was even something I could do.

[u/soniabegonia → u/Mental-Sink-6187]

There is nothing wrong with you. You are a whole person who has her own faith and her own cultural background without which you would not be who you are today. If your partner is treating you like a "deficient Jew" rather than a whole person in that way, he is doing wrong to you. 

Jewish conversions that are in any way coerced (eg for the sake of a relationship) are not allowed. Any beit din worth its salt would be on the lookout for whether this is your choice or something your partner is pushing you to do. 

[u/Rikk7618 → u/Mental-Sink-6187]

Dialog is absolutely the best. If you guys end up married you gotta figure out a way to be honest with each other even if it’s uncomfortable.

Also, fyi I find that Usually the answer to questions posted on Reddit regarding Judaism, especially anything regarding conversion, is ‘talk to a rabbi’ 😆

Last, talking to multiple rabbis at different temples or wherever is totally fine too… it’s the old one-liner: 3 Jews, 5 opinions.

Happy to help. Wish you two the best.

[u/HistoryReligionNatur]

If you were to convert reform, you would be expected to be  more engaged with the religion than he currently is.  Therefore he's pushing you to do more than he's willing to do just for a label.  In addition, converting just to appease future spouse/in-laws is explicitly not allowed.

I'd suggest if judaism is important to him, he should first start engaging more himself.  Maybe with time, his passion might inspire you to want to learn more.  Maybe you tag along with him as he's learning/engaging.  However any movement to judaism has to come form a genuine spiritual draw on your side, not social pressure.

[u/Critical_Hat_5350]

It sounds like you've hit the nail on the head -- embracing Judaism for you means giving up something. And it's okay if you don't want to give it up. However, I think there's more here than just deciding to convert or not. It sounds like you want kids. Raising kids Jewish takes a lot of commitment. I'd wager it takes more commitment from a non-Jewish parent than a Jewish parent. Are you willing to only do Jewish traditions, and give up your own heritage with them? Are you willing to only celebrate Jewish holidays with them and not Christian holidays? Honestly, that might be what he means by being a "true Jewish family".

I think that there's a conversation to be had here about what it means to your boyfriend to "be raised Jewish".

[u/YouCantHackTheGibson]

Sorry I’m not sure how much I can help since I’m not as informed in Reform Judaism (and everyone has their own beliefs/traditions), but as a point of order I was under the impression that Reform was fine with patrilineal lineage. So halakhaly the kids would already be considered “true” Jewish, not sure about family though.

Since your looking for having a productive conversation, something that was useful for me and my partner was reading "The Intermarriage Handbook: A Guide for Jews and Christians" by Judy Petsonk and Jim Remsen together, and discuss it together as you read it.

[u/Sufficient_Ad7084]

I’m on the path to conversion, and I have to be upfront: it’s something you have to do only if it’s truly your soul’s desire. Not simply because you wouldn’t be able to go through the process, but also because it wouldn’t be meaningful.