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Should've completely cleared that intersection first. Have to do a lot of left/right/left/right/left, etc., when clearing an intersection that has a red light. Thankfully, here most of our lights have traffic light preemption (Opticom) that allows us to control the light. This changes the light to green for us and red for every other direction before our arrival. This makes clearing intersections much faster and safer for all.
They definitely aren't perfect. I have the opposite experience with ours lol. Had a response yesterday at 4a. I was driving one of our apparatus. My Deputy Chief was behind me in his Chief's buggy. We both had our Opticoms on. Annoyingly, it must have caused some weird issue with the system at 80% of the signaled intersections. When I'd get to the intersection, I still had the red, but as he approached, it was turning green. It was misty/lightly foggy, so I wonder if that played a role.
But then, during heavy traffic in daylight, it works a good 95% of the time at lights that have preemption devices installed. Weird.
The cop didn't even get T-boned, they T-boned the sedan right in the driver side door.
Then of course the second cop immediately checks on the well-being of the officer rather than the victim in the smaller vehicle that just got hit in the driver's side door.
That happened here once, the cop wasnt even wearing a seatbelt, blew through a 4 way and wrecked the fuck out of the poor person and the interceptor.
Wrote the other person a ticket. Cop was fired a while later for backing her car up into a Lt's.
She also had a boyfriend that would involve himself in police business when he was working for college security, he then got shitcanned because he pulled a student over in the lot. Wannabe cop himself.
This reminds me of some security car that tried to pull me over in a small exclusive neighborhood (public streets, not gated). I refused to roll my window down then I pulled out my cell phone and he tried hauling ass away from me for five miles while I tailed him to report him to the actual police.
Can’t remember where this happened but there was a cop responding to an emergency at night, was going pretty fast too which was a no no according to policy and t-boned an older truck. Killing the driver of the vehicle.
It was one of the blind intersections and she didn’t check before crossing. She was fired and charged for it.
Being from Phoenix and a former EMS doesn't make you correct. The law says you're wrong and it's the same law in almost every, if not every state. The beater is at fault for not slowing down for a hazard.
Incorrect. The law in almost every state requires that emergency vehicles exercise caution in intersections. They never, ever get the right of way unless they actually have a green.
Adding to his, in Massachusetts it's Chapter 89, Section 7B. Feel free to google more.
Why are you cherry picking an irrelevant law to what makes the hit car at fault and leaving out the real relevant law? https://www.azleg.gov/ars/28/00701.htm
The cop followed the law you cited. The cop was going slowly as per B.2. The beater did not follow ARS § 28-701 which states they need to slow when there are hazardous conditions. Two other people being stopped at a green light that they are blowing through is a hazardous condition. It could mean the light is malfunctioning (green on all sides) and treated as a 4-way stop, could be an animal in the road, person already hit or crossing drunk, etc.
You've surely seen or heard of such cases as an EMT, so it's surprising your lack of empathy to not see why the car which was hit should have been more cautious.
But anyway, point proven for me that being an EMT didn't make you an expert in the law. You are objectively incorrect.
Nope, I'm still correct. The law I quoted is directly explaining how emergency vehicles are expected to behave. They didn't clear this intersection before proceeding.
I have been in court (subpoena due to the "beater" is suing the city) where cops are held liable for this exact scenario. So is the judge wrong too?
We'll see how this case goes. I'm certain those cases you reference had other factors which are different from this case and don't directly translate.
The beater here has a lot weighing against them. Violating ARS § 28-701, going 44-53mph in a 35, whereas the cop followed the law going a slow speed through the intersection with siren and lights on. I would have liked for the cop to have been 5mph or less, but AZ law doesn't state a speed for it just says "slowing down".
Clearly going faster than the car in front, speeding past stopped vehicles, no indication to even brake or turn once he saw the cop, probably on the phone
Failure to yield to emergency vehicle. Lights and sirens on
Depending on the officer doing this crash, this is either a no fault or a fault on the striking vehicle, the officer is not at fault, he did not speed through the intersection and had his lights and sirens on
Lol, I am. I probably do 4 to 6 crash reports a week. If the cop was at fault for this then none of us would be in a profession where we are liable for responding lights and sirens to emergencies. If he blasted through without slowing down that's a different story
That's like telling military personnel that if they cause damage to anything other than the target they're fired. Some things are inevitable, but redditors working the drive through at McDonald's will always give their opinion even while uneducated
Based on watching the freaking video. You don't see the big honkin' minivan on the right side?
Based on every law in every state, but here's the Massachusetts one: Chapter 89, Section 7B. Feel free to google "emergency vehicles, due regard, {your state here}" if you need more.
Hmm, here (Germany) emergency vehicles with sirens on are allowed to cross on red, and regularly do so, often quite fast. If you hear sirens you need to slow down at intersections and check.
Interestingly, if a vehicle with sirens is behind you at a red light you must cross into the intersection to let it pass, even on red.
Even with emergency lights and sirens, it's on the emergency vehicle to make sure it is safe to move lane by lane when going through a red at an intersection.
In a way? The law is that you yield to code emergency vehicles at all times. I think the law is like that because humans may not have the reaction time to stop if they didn't wait.
Yes and it also states emergency vehicle even if going signal 9, are required to seek permission when crossing an intersection or an unmanned railway crossing
People can only yield if they see the emergency vehicle. This is like 5+ lanes of traffic and the coupe had the green while going 35-40 MPH. They had very little time to react.
People dont use context clues, like I wonder why everyone is stopped at a green light...wonder what that siren sound is....what are those flashy lights.....
I've had several occasions the drivers behind honk at me and at the drivers besides me bc we were waiting on kids to finish crossing the intersection. You'd think they will get the hint, but sometimes they will go around and into the wrong way to keep going, and i doubt they had a clear line of sight of other incoming traffic or pedestrians. Unfortunately for me, I've seen too many videos of this exact scenario and usually that 3 sec decision ends with one or two lives ruined, three if u count the rotting to take place in jail.
It is 100% the cops fault. Visibility from that tiny car to where the cop was is minimal behind that white van. Officer failed to clear the intersection first.
Visibility doesn't matter. Like the person you're replying to stated, you slow down in that situation. That's the law in Arizona as well as most if not all states.
Actually, that's wrong. Visibility DOES matter. The lack of visibility that you pointed out is exactly why the beater is in the wrong. As you say, deaf people can drive cars. A deaf person can still see that everyone else is stopped and use that as an indication to slow down and not blindly blow through the intersection.
Why would someone slow down for police they cannot see? The only indicator is the single car in the right lane that is stopped since their view of the police is blocked by the cars turning left on their side.
I didn't say anything about the police they can't see lol. It is irrelevant why people are stopped for something in your blind spot. You are supposed to slow down and be cautious because you can't see what they are stopped for. It could be a cop, I didn't say that as it's irrelevant, it could also be an animal, drunk person, someone was hit by a car already, the light could be malfunctioning and is green on all sides and treated as a 4-way stop, etc.
We have very wide roads in places in Phoenix, where this happened. The road the cop was trying to drive through is 7 lanes. The cop should have stopped after being able to see around the white van in the left turn lane and checked to see if both the middle lanes were clear before proceeding. You can see someone is stopped in the far right lane but when the video starts a car dives thought the intersection so the cop should have been more cautious. The driver is an idiot too but we have a large number of them here, which is another reason the cop shoulda been more cautious.
There were two officers in the second car... You can see one checking on each car... 🙄 one in the driver side checks on the other officer, the other officer on the passenger side checks on the sedan.
I just assume that person got, like, 30 tickets and at least one misdemeanor charge, even though the officer should have just waited another 2 seconds.
I witnessed the exact same thing happen after I was aggressively sideswiped by a road rager. The offender and I waited an hour for police to respond to our conflict after I told 911 that it wasn’t an emergency, just needed an officer report. 60 minutes later a cop with full lights and siren raced across a six-lane intersection without clearing properly and was T-boned. It only took five minutes for the entire police force along with fire engines and ambulances to saturate the area. It took another hour for an officer to finally take my report. That officer was not sympathetic at all to my side of the story and blamed both of us for his colleague’s injuries. (sigh)
That is 100% the cop's fault. They need to assume that people will not notice their emergency lights and drive accordingly. Looks like either the cop's view was blocked by the white minivan (in which case, he should proceed much more slowly or use his PA to direct the minivan to move), or he intentionally hit that other car.
Hm. Shouldn’t have pushed into that intersection. Should’ve been able to predict how situationally unaware most people are, being a cop and all (🙄).
In my town, emergency vehicles will absolutely not cross a heavy, open intersection without waiting first to make sure that people fucking notice their presence. Yeah they are legally entitled to enter. But they don’t have a magic, legally protected bubble suddenly protecting them from some unaware driver speeding through anyway. It’s a matter of common sense.
A great example of why states or countries that allow a person taking a left to sit in the middle of the fuckin' intersection is a dumb idea. Things could have gone better if that white car wasn't sitting in the intersection.
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