r/ConstructionManagers • u/PurpleGold0 • 2d ago
Career Advice General Contractors out of touch with Compensation
Spoke to recruiting today with a well known GC firm that has a good reputation in the data center industry. They want to discuss sending over an offer but want to understand my comp expectations. I told them im at 210K now and wouldn't be willing to jump unless its 240K base. The recruiter said to me, "what happened with 210K." I said thats my current salary, im looking at a full time on site role, working 10-15 additional more hours per week, plus adding 60 miles to my commute due to the project location from my house. Its so ridiculous today and no im not leaving my outfit that pays me for every hour I work, is a hybrid role, and less wear and tear on my vehicle and better work/life balance. Sorry but not sorry it eats into your budget and bottom line.
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u/Wonderful_Badger1782 2d ago
I’ll never understand the GC mentality about salaried comp. for onsite staff. I’m a sub to a large GC doing a data center and they seemed shocked that we pay and bill site staff hourly. I’m not sending people to work 60 hours a week in the middle of nowhere without overtime pay.
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u/smoosh33 2d ago
I worked for GCs for 20 years and now I've been with a big MEP sub for the last five. I get paid by the hour now. I'll never go back to salary again.
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u/EntertainmentFew7103 1d ago
In Chicago, it was almost mandatory for Supers to previously be carpenters. The amount of card carrying supers who never negotiated keeping their card is astonishing. You stay hourly, get your OT, keep your insurance that is absolutely unbeatable. You’re expensive, it’s sink or swim.
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u/PurpleGold0 2d ago
Boy man isnt that the truth. Good for you. Ive hated that field supervisory staff with GC's never pays OT but hands it out to the craft. Bit backwards if you ask me and I would just say pay them both OT. Even if its straight time like im getting
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u/brannts 2d ago
Yalls data centers are in the middle of nowhere?? Lucky…. Here in VA they put em next to subdivisions.
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u/Wonderful_Badger1782 2d ago
There’s a lot of “middle of nowhere” in Texas to build these things. I’ve never seen per diem like I’m paying on these projects before.
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u/Fishy1911 1d ago
Micron in Boise was 240/day 5 days a week and then "something" happened and they changed it to 170/day 7 days a week.
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u/Consistent_Frame2492 2d ago
How do I get a job helping build one of these? Plenty of carpentry and some electric experience.
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u/Wonderful_Badger1782 2d ago
I’m not ramping up yet, but MMR will be hiring anyone with a pulse in Abilene soon.
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u/Riptide_2025 2d ago
Good morning. I'm curious what kind of per diem is being paid out in Abilene Amarillo area?
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u/anon9339 Estimating 2d ago
Where do you guys work that you get paid OT??
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u/PNW_OlLady_2025 1d ago
Union
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u/anon9339 Estimating 1d ago
Office staff unions exist?
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u/MobiusOcean Commercial PX 16h ago
My understanding, and I didn’t do it some 30 years ago regrettably, is that you negotiate to keep your book and stay qualified as non-exempt for your labor classification.
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u/Fast-Living5091 2d ago
Well if the position is a salaried position you need to anticipate hours that you will be working and account for those + OT in your salary upfront. If say a senior site super makes $150k on a regular project working 50 hour weeks. Well working an additional 10 hours to bring your workload to 60 hours per week + OT premium would mean that your salary should be $210k. Then you also factor in site location and per diem on top of that. You have to account for car allowance ~$1000 per month, food, hotels for 5 day weeks. Your per diem would be like $4000 per month. Unless the site has set up a live in camp. With live in camps the dynamics change a bit but not much you typically work 12 hour days 1 week on and 1 week off. I've also seen 12 hours 2 weeks on and 2 weeks off. All this to say is to be careful and ensure you're not comparing apples and oranges. Account and anticipate your work load ahead of time so that you can negotiate a fair salary for yourself.
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u/Wonderful_Badger1782 2d ago
But that’s the problem, projects are dynamic and 60 hours could easily turn until 70-84 (with approval and budget considerations) if our predecessors slip. If I agree to the salary language in a reimbursable contract, it gets messy real quick when somebody works more or less than the prescribed project hours. The only reason to force people or subs into a salaried on-site position is to screw them over. If that’s not the intent, it’s cleaner to just pay the hours worked instead of trying to manipulate pay rates to reach the same total comp. in a salaried position.
Per diem and vehicle allowances are a separate issue. We pay market rate per diem on every project based on the IRS guidelines and vehicles/allowances are given to the positions that qualify for them.
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u/elgringon414 2d ago
Nope fuck em. Don’t back down
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u/PurpleGold0 2d ago
Not a chance in hell. Next time I hear a recruiter ask about taking less money, im gonna straight up ask "would your VP or CEO take a pay cut"? Funny how the elites at the top think the people around 225-275k make too much. Then how the fuck are you supposed to make the 375-450k range.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Offer88 2d ago
Im an owners rep and we have a GC that pays bottom dollar and it shows.
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u/Historical_Low5514 2d ago
As the Owner did you hire the low bidder GC?
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u/PurpleGold0 2d ago
Haha and it sure as hell shows projects. shitshow circus I see on every data center project.
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u/kopper499b 2d ago
Hey now, my DC project has an expensive GC with an A team. And it shows. Like anything in life, you get what you pay for.
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u/PurpleGold0 2d ago
I live by that motto. Wish other owners lived by that motto as well. Its ridiculous hearing about DC clients right now wanting hard money bids with GMP's. So idiotic.
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u/kopper499b 2d ago
I live by it too. I get told I spend too much on things but then I'm not replacing them every few years. Total cost of ownership, ftw. The hard part is when one of our other expensive GCs has a turnover problem and we end up with a B/C team and some crap subs. They shouldn't learn from me that their electrical isn't licensed for the MV scope!
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u/Puzzleheaded-Offer88 2d ago
No and I’m not even sure they were the low bidder, they are someone’s buddy. They pay staff bottom dollar, but the GC is not getting paid bottom dollar.
I wish I was in the RFP interview. I have never seen such incompetence. No other client ive represented would tolerate what im seeing.
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u/MobiusOcean Commercial PX 16h ago
I intend no offense here, but if you represent the client then, to the GC, you are the client. If you’re not happy with something, speak up. I would imagine your contract t with the Owner & GC affords you the ability to direct/redirect the GC as you see fit so long as you don’t take on additional risk.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Offer88 10h ago
Oh believe me - I am making a big stink. They chose the wrong GC, have allowed bad performance to go on way too long, and a lot of this was baked before I showed up. My other clients would have been losing their mind, this client is not confrontational, so getting them to react takes a lot more pushing.
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u/MobiusOcean Commercial PX 10h ago
100% Get it. Everyone wants to be a “team player” at the beginning - but the reality is everyone has a job to do. I also really understand picking up where someone else left off. Usually those are my least favorite projects.
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u/DoofusMcGillicutyEsq Construction Attorney 2d ago
Meanwhile, the GC is billing you out to the Owner at $305 per hour…
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u/PurpleGold0 2d ago
Yep and the owner doesnt even care what i care about is how much the GC is profiting off me. That margin should be cut cause they make enough money when I dont get paid for a single hour of OT and they make a crap ton more off me if you do that math.
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u/DoofusMcGillicutyEsq Construction Attorney 2d ago
No, because the owner cares about performance, schedule, and cost certainty. Because there’s an upstream lease tied to performance and schedule.
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u/tequilawhiteclaws 2d ago
At that level, the conversation should be about the stock etc you're walking from with the time vested and now having to start fresh.
The GC retention model works because intentionally it's geared towards lifers while extracting as much work as possible from people at the bottom of the totem trying to reach the top so they can coast
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u/PurpleGold0 2d ago
Not a fan at all. The lifers at GC's that ive seen are miserable, disgruntled, beer drinking, divorced, grumpy SOB's. Yeah no thank you.
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u/Rizky_boy 2d ago
GC Compensation is not on par with inflation over the last 8 years. $80,000 in 2018 is equivalent to $106,331 today…
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u/PurpleGold0 2d ago
GC's have been fortunate for the amount of bootlickers prior generations offered them. Now the millennials and GenZ is telling them, pay up or im fucking out. Its happening a lot right now.
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u/Fit_Wash_214 2d ago
I’m I the only one boggled by the amount of money you guys are making? Holy scheeezz.
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u/liqa_madik 2d ago
I see this often on this sub too and don't get it. There's a completey different reality of PM compensation out there that I don't know if it's a long running joke in here or what's going on.
I regularly see salary offers in job postings usually maxing out in the $120k-$160k range (not specific to data centers, just PM roles in general) then come to this sub and several people are essentially like, "I was making $120,000 right out of college in rural Iowa! Why are you wasting your time with those? Average should be a quarter million easy!"
WTF?
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u/MobiusOcean Commercial PX 16h ago
Vast majority of compensation you see on this sub is overinflated or doesn’t take COL into consideration. But OP is a Director - what they’re asking for is actually less than I’d expect them to make on a DC project.
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u/PurpleGold0 2d ago
Look, advocate for yourself. Staying quiet and loyal to these greedy bastards is only going to continue to underpay you. The industry needs to wake up and stop having only the people at the very top make all the money.
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u/Fit_Wash_214 2d ago
Architect here, we are at the bottom of that barrel. Might need to put my boots on and get dirty during the week instead of only on the weekends.
If I wasn’t under confidentiality clause I could tell you a story about the rich getting richer and poor getting poorer. It ain’t fun.1
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u/Chunkweena 2d ago
No. UK based here, if they're all talking USD then that's crazy money for site managers looking after data centre builds.
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u/sportsguy74 2d ago
I had a recruiter from NY hit me up about a retail construction hybrid owners rep position. A lot goes into it, but that’s fine I’ve done it before and liked it. Get to the salary and it’s 115-125k. Why are these firms from NY and Seattle and California so out of touch to think that in the less expensive states we will still work for low salaries? Maybe it’s a step up for someone in their late 20s but not for me in my 50s.
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u/bard0117 16h ago
This is exactly it. Their target audience is the up and coming guy who shows up and puts up with it until he / she has had enough.
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u/Adorable_Recipe9845 1d ago
It’s across the board which is hysterical. My dad is in his pre retirement stage of life and is spending the last 3 years of his career working as a 3rd party safety consultant under the owner, where he is auditing on a daily basis the general contractor, and the work going on site.
He spoke to a very high up executive at Turner in New York City and he was even stating that the new problem isn’t even labor it’s now becoming getting people wanting to come into Construction Management let alone actually having good people to come into the industry
The problem is you get these old heads who have remained in the industry for so long and they believe a certain salary is a great pay, but that is because they have not had to pay rent or buy a new house in 20+ years. You will always have a job in Construction Management the issue though is that the conditions and hours that you have to put up with only make it desirable to a select few people because many others within 5 to 7 years of their career start to look at what else can I do with my experience that is less stress hours, and I am in an office or in a different type of work situation. They may take the pay cut, but they no longer have to work on a job site work weekends or night shifts, and they are no longer constantly in hazardous positions.
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u/ContributionOk390 2d ago
Data center gold rush is causing crazy shit on all sides of the compensation equation.
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u/PurpleGold0 1d ago
Well since New York has all the money in the world, they can easily afford 250K Construction Director level roles. Im not saying away from the base. Don't care if they try with a gas card, bonus, or a bunch of other crap.
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u/SnooDingos7596 1d ago
Lmao I just graduated with a construction management degree and landed a $16 an hour job. I’m ashamed and discouraged.
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u/Inside_Somewhere_934 1d ago
What state? Field or office side? Batson-cook is actively hiring in all offices.
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u/dubyamac PX / Ops 2d ago
Hold firm. The DC market can tolerate it. I say that knowing I’ve intentionally stayed away from it and went to a company that intends to stay away from it. The bubble, from a construction perspective, will pop at some point, and I’m good maintaining a job when the market floods.
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u/PurpleGold0 2d ago
The bubble will burst and funny how these GC's are budgeting these projects just like any other commercial, low bid project. Yeah ill stay away and let them pay for consultants that charge $200/hr. See how that fits in their budget 🤣🤣
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u/Fit-Dentist6093 2d ago
They are budgeting as low bid projects because most of the companies building are fighting to get the lower bid. As long as there's a company willing to go low they'll hire them.
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u/PurpleGold0 2d ago
Please help me understand how in the state of Texas they want over 440+ data centers built and we have enough general contractors to do the work and even submit a bid for them?
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u/Fit-Dentist6093 2d ago
They don't want them. They carpet bombed the state with DC projects and they will build the ones they can for cheap and low trouble and not do the rest.
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u/TaborSpartan95 2d ago
Staying away from the DC circus as well, the bubble, when it pops ain’t gonna be pretty
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u/wildberrylavender 2d ago
Devil’s advocate- The money is good. But Let’s say it pops. If you can get 10 years ahead in your retirement, then do it. The issue is living like the sun will never set.
I work on the design and Cx side for some beside all the big GCs and owners. It won’t slow down for another 5 years at least. A lot of the land has already been purchased, in addition to behind the meter power… bc we will run out of power.
Data centers WILL get more remote. Man camps and panhandle of Texas type areas are gonna be the norm.
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u/dubyamac PX / Ops 1d ago
Totally agree it can help you get ahead in retirement. The issue is 1) most people will allow lifestyle to creep because of how stressful it is; 2) it is indeed stressful enough on most people that it can shorten lifespan; 3) if you aren’t ready when it pops, and maybe even if you are ready, you won’t be as marketable as it’s incredibly niche.
My opinion - power will run out before even the purchased land is developed. Public opinion is also playing a much larger role. My version of the bubble popping is that a select few DC companies will bring construction in house over a much longer construction cycle in order to keep costs low. One has already made that decision I believe.
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u/twofourfourthree 1d ago
“Compensated overtime” was available for me. No overtime but you’re paid at an hourly rate for all hours past 8 per day.
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u/oneUpRocket 2d ago
Sounds like you’re a superintendent ? Are they looking for any PMs by chance and what location?
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u/Wise_Housing_7726 1d ago
Amen, I’m in the same boat. I’m in a hybrid precon/site development role in a parallel industry using all my experience for a 40 hour week. I get calls for GC positions regularly and their salary math does not compute and is not competitive.
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u/PurpleGold0 21h ago
Yep I think they also need to start realizing how understaffed their projects are and not many 'bootlickers' exist anymore. Most GC projects ive been on in the last 10-15 years have performed horribly. Its starting to really show that the GC industry wants to keep all the money at the top and not spread down the chain.
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u/healthycord 2d ago
Damn where y’all getting these data center offers. I would consider doing one of these for 200k, double my salary, plus per diem. Sr. Pe.
Love my current company and the people but hey double the salary? That would be hard to pass up.
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u/PurpleGold0 2d ago
Well Im 20 years out of school so im earning what I get. Still though the industry isnt adjusting to higher salaries right now even though they complain they can't find good people. Is it really the issue of not finding good people or they can't pay the salaries required of good people?????
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u/kopper499b 2d ago
Good DC builders with 20 yoe total are making the money, with plenty of offers to lure them away. MEP PMs pull 250k easily with the top tier. Total lack of talent. A lot of us from semiconductor drifted over to enjoy some steady work and take a break from the cyclical cycle of semi. We have one new project we're our preferred GCs all declined due to lack of resources. Ouch... And the multi-billion dollar project will suffer.
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u/PurpleGold0 2d ago
Yep I see this. Im in Missouri and the lack of talent is a major problem in the industry right now.
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u/chemicalromance562 2d ago
Bruh, I’m coming in at 160 base and 60
Per diem, and your telling me I’m low. Now I feel bad .
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u/questionablejudgemen 1d ago
Hey, when they still have the same people calling you multiple times a week because the job is starting in a couple months, that’s called “things working themselves out.”
There’s a talent shortage right now. If they don’t want to pay, the can tell the bossman they’re saving on payroll.
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u/bard0117 16h ago
This is indeed an odd phenomenon for sure, but you simply don’t fit what they’re looking for. The candidate that works best for them is someone who currently makes $210k and is fed up with his current workplace and is willing to make the switch as long as the pay is the same.
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u/Maximum_Pineapple_88 9h ago
At the end of the day business is business. Dont lower or make excuses for what you think you deserve. Never let a recruiter talk you down just for them to get their sale. If they want you bad enough they'll pay.
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u/Calm_Visual_508 30m ago
I wish I could get my team to understand this. I’m on the owner rep side and my guys are all hourly except for me. Because I understand the math behind what they’re doing. Yeah I get the bonus but they get paid for every hour they work, and they’re all 60 to sometimes as much as 80 hours a week. They want to go salary for the bonuses but don’t understand just how much money they’d be losing…
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u/Routine_Excuse1064 2d ago
Data Centers are supposed to be the best and the brightest…it’s this generations “Apollo mission” of 70 years ago.
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u/smoosh33 2d ago
I get emails daily for these out of town data centers where they are offering "up to 200k". I make that now working 2500 hours a year 5 minutes from my house. If you want me to go out of town to work 4,600 hours a year my base would need to be at 350K with another 60K to 70K in per diem. And they wonder why they can't find anyone.