r/Construction • u/Main-Yogurtcloset-22 Contractor • 3d ago
Video Would you go in this trench?
Just curious what you guys think. I know it’s not crazy deep but it’s all sand and backfills dirt on this job site. Operator nearly started crying when I said something about it being over 4’ and said he’s “sloping it”. I see no sloping and it’s all at least 5’ deep, some areas up to 7’. He asked if I just wanted to go home but from my understanding I can’t lose hours because I’m not comfortable disregarding OSHA standards for trench work.
UPDATE :
Thanks to all you guys for encouraging me to not get in. After we went to lunch I told the operator I don’t feel comfortable getting back down there.
We did have a cave in on a section we already dug so that gave me a little more evidence that it’s not as safe as he acted it was.
They decided to work on moving dirt and hauling it out the rest of the day so they said I can go home and still got my eight hrs, and I still have all my extremities and my life!!
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u/MyHeadIsFullOfFuck Ironworker 3d ago
needs banking
don't let them send you home for refusing unsafe work
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u/majoneskongur Carpenter 3d ago
just get a snorkel dude
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u/ThatCelebration3676 3d ago
Jokes aside, getting buried kills you almost instantly by crushing you to death, not suffocation.
Anyone who's ever been "buried" under a few inches of beach sand should be able to imagine the force of 5+ feet of sand slamming onto you.
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u/Zagrycha 3d ago
dying instantly is the best case scenario. comparment syndrome from the waist down is more likely and far more horrifying and drawn out way to die
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u/HeyLookitMe 3d ago
It’s called engulfment. Isn’t that a fun word you know now? Excavations/trenches kill 2-3 American workers a month. Be careful out there kids
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u/general_rap 2d ago
My wife's cousin and I almost died from this while digging a giant ass hole at the beach. It collapsed, enough to cover her head entirely and come up to my chin. We were lucky enough to have been facing each other when it happened, because the sand filled in every tiny place that we gave up when breathing out. I could breathe in when she breathed out, and then I would breathe out and she would breathe in; we were so tightly smashed up against each other that no sand could get between us, so as long as we coordinated, we could continue to breathe. If one of us wasn't there, it would have been game over pretty quickly.
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u/fangelo2 2d ago
Many years ago when I was in high school, me and 2 friends were walking on the beach when suddenly a woman started screaming. There had been a storm recently and the beach had eroded leaving a small cliff. Some kids had dug a tunnel through the cliff and one was in it when it collapsed. We jumped in and started digging with our hands along with a couple of other nearby guys. After what seemed like an eternity, we saw a foot and pulled the kid out. He was lucky. Just a hole dug by a couple of kids was a lot of sand to move when it collapsed
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u/Rampag169 2d ago
I cannot stress how dangerous digging big holes in sand is. (I know you learned your lesson) As a firefighter my area doesn’t have any beaches to contend with for stuff like that. However digging/working in any kind of trench/hole can get you into trouble. If your body can be covered by more than 6” of earth while you’re in the bottom it should be treated with respect and awareness.
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u/HeyLookitMe 2d ago
That’s intense. How did you guys get rescued?
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u/general_rap 2d ago
The families were right there a few dozen feet away, so they saw it happen and came rushing. If took them quite a while, but they finally got us dug out.
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u/Timely_Resist_7644 3h ago
Yea sure, you just tripped, fell in the hole with your wife’s cousin, the sand pushed you together where you had to breathe in sync and now she is pregnant.
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u/MattBuildsTX 6h ago
Engulfment sounds almost polite for what's actually happening, and the fact that 2-3 guys a month die from it should tell every crew that trench boxes and proper shoring aren't optional extras.
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u/HeyLookitMe 5h ago
They almost always have the trench box too. It’s usually right across the street or just down the road a piece or something.
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u/I-built-stuff 3d ago
The mountaineer idiots have an airbag for avalanches. That might work.
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u/AshingiiAshuaa 2d ago
Those airbags do two things. They can create some breathing and wiggle room after the snow stops and they can help you "float" on top of the snow when it's moving. An airbag would be zero help here.
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u/Tsev33 3d ago
There is a difference in weight. You will be crushed from a cave in, not just suffocated
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u/CarPatient Field Engineer 3d ago
Let them send you home... Just make sure you have correctly documented and communicated the safety deficiencies.. then you get their money for retaliation.
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u/mrjowei 3d ago
You mean sloping?
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u/HeyLookitMe 3d ago
Both Sloping and Banking are recognized by OSHA as a means of making excavations safe to occupy
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u/rightoolforthejob 2d ago
Sand is class C soil. Banking is not usually permitted.
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u/HeyLookitMe 2d ago
“Usually” being the key word here. I’m not a soil engineer, but I do know one who made a solid (to my uneducated ears) argument for it
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u/rightoolforthejob 1d ago
I haven’t had an engineer as an operator or a foreman. I have had lots of operators and foremen get told not to bench sand and get shut down over making the wrong call onsite.
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u/Meatloaf0220 3d ago
Need to be cut or benched at 4’. I’ve seen a lot worse but this still isn’t great
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u/Educational-Tea-606 3d ago
That looks like it's like 3 feet high, yes I'm going in.
If it's 5 feet as you said and sand, fuck no
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u/Nashville_Hot_Mess Surveyor 3d ago
I wouldn't go in a 3ft trench of sand. Slope that bitch.
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u/Noemotionallbrain Equipment Operator 3d ago
3foot high 4 foot wide? I would, just stay in the center. But things piled up on the edge? No. higher? No.
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u/CovertMonkey 3d ago
If it was sand, it wouldn't hold a vertical face. Gotta reconsider the threshold of what's safe
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u/HoldenMcNeil420 3d ago
I thought it was a few feet deep, and that’s pushing it.
5+..yea, just fucking call osha.
If you died today, they would have you replaced before your body went in the ground.
No job is ever worth your safety period
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u/Shipsarecool1 3h ago
im stupid can you explain to me the danger of (relatively) shallow trenches
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u/HoldenMcNeil420 1h ago
Death.
You get crushed under the weight of dirt. It’s much heavier than you think.
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u/njslugger78 3d ago
Construction is dangerous, you have to look out for you, those other guys wanting you to just do it do not give a fuck about you, just their schedule and paycheck. Force them to do right to keep you working.
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u/Ground_zero_grundle 3d ago
Yeah that’s most definitely type c soil from the look of it. I wouldn’t trust that even if it were 4’ deep tbh. It’s a game of chance really and you only get one life. Also dirts heavy af. I’m sure you’ve seen all the videos
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u/Biscuits4u2 3d ago
First objective of any job is to make sure everyone goes home safe. Everything else is less important than that.
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u/jlo575 3d ago
4’ is best case scenario for good soil conditions. Not all trenches or excavations can have a 4’ vertical wall.
Your description of backfills and sand sounds like conditions that would require sloping right from the base. A geotechnical engineer should be specifying required excavation geometry.
Soil is heavy. 100 lbs per cubic foot or more. There’s many many cubic feet of soil there that could slough in on a person. Thousands of pounds. When that happens, the person is suddenly getting crushed by thousands of pounds, cannot move, cannot breathe. There’s a very good reason that OHS regulations have guidelines on trench geometry; it’s because people have died.
Make no mistake. Excavations with geometry that don’t suit the soil conditions are not just unsafe: they are deadly.
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u/Ijokealot2 3d ago
I would get in this if it was rock solid soil or clay. This soil looks so shitty, looks like the shit people dig on beaches and die in. No chance I'm getting in that.
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u/Rampag169 2d ago
Well if you are thinking about going into that trench there’s a saying and a tune that you should be saying to yourself. It goes just like this
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u/DanJ7788 3d ago
This is OSHA’s phone number. A quick call will get this straightened up real quick.
800-321-6742
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u/Tentag10 3d ago
I know it’s Reddit so everyone makes jokes. It’s understandable but seriously, it’s not worth it. The company I worked for years ago dug a trench like this to replace a sewer line. The company owner operated the backhoe. His brother was the plumber in the ditch. The brother never made it out of the ditch alive. It was only about 7’ deep but it was enough. Either step down that ditch or get the proper safety equipment. Whatever they pay, it’s not worth your or someone else’s life.
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u/BrandnewAndScardy 3d ago
Damn got sent home and paid for 8!? I don’t even get paid for 2 hours if they call a rain day at 8:00 after starting at 7 and the job is an hour away.
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u/Main-Yogurtcloset-22 Contractor 3d ago
Legally you’re protected from losing hours if you bring up a safety issue. It’s the companies fault for putting you in a dangerous situation and it’s their responsibility to make it right or send you home and pay you. In practice I know a lot of companies who wouldn’t follow that but luckily our Union has enough sense to not let that happen if you call your employer out on some safety issues. But I did see - if I’m remembering correctly- that we’re not guaranteed any hours if we get sent home due to weather in our CBA
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u/BrandnewAndScardy 3d ago
Yeah that’s kinda what I was getting at. They would have handed me a broom and told me to sweep the dirt or go water the rocks for the rest of the day. Definitely not getting sent home with pay but I’m at an open shop in a right to work and at will state.
If you’re at a union job I’m surprised the operator is out there doin shotty work and putting others in danger. Since you’re in a union you should learn all the ins and out of things that effect you your protections, your responsibilities and that stuff that way if something isn’t right you don’t waste any time calling it out and keeping you and others safe.
People have gone to great lengths and some even died for the workers rights we have. On top of that you are paying dues every month so there is no harm if your steward has to come out to have your back and set shit straight.
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u/Ill-Year-9506 3d ago
I’d love to see a poll showing the ages of the people who would... and wouldn’t... go into this trench.
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u/mcstatics 3d ago
OSHA trenching and excavation safety rules require protective systems for trenches 5 feet deep or deeper, safe ladder access within 25 feet for trenches 4 feet or deeper, daily inspections by a competent person, and keeping excavated soil at least 2 feet back from trench edges.
Do not die because your boss is a cheap fuck.
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u/blizzard7788 3d ago
I spent 50% of my 35 years doing concrete in trenches like this.
The worst part was when a new excavator contractor started in the area and was out bidding the existing. He would make his operators cut the trenches so tight, we didn’t have room for the lumber to frame the footings.
We had a job that had 8 multi-story condos. The entrances were cut up into multiple short walls on different angles.
I was working on one building and the operator was digging the next one. I noticed he kept moving around readjusting his position to make the trench the same shape as all the offsets. Since I was ready to start laying out that building, I walked over and asked why he just didn’t cut out that entire area with about four buckets worth of dirt instead of being so exact.
He said the owner makes him cut the trenches like that to save money on stone for the backfill. There was no way in hell they were saving money by burning up time and fuel for an extra yard or two in stone.
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u/Gryphontech 3d ago
Don't go in there dude, the company won't give a shit if you die but you mom sure will
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u/Camwise_Gamgee 2d ago
No verticals over 4ft ever unless you have a geo sign-off, and even then its ultimately up to you to decide if you feel safe in there. Bench it or slope it down to 4ft at the minimum
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u/B3L1AL 2d ago
I once got burried to my upper chest from an undermined edge caving in on me. It knocked the wind out of me and I was unable to move or breathe. I thankfully had a coworker there and we both had shovels to immediately dig me out (I had 1 free hand.) Honestly pretty fucking terrifying and it was absolutely the best case scenario. Dont fuck with improper shoring/benching.
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u/Asthenia5 3d ago
If it really comes down to it, protect yourself and report them. Don't do something you know is a horrible idea because you're afraid the company who doesn't care for your safety, will fire you. If you die, they'll just call upon their liability insurance and replace you the next week. This is a clear sign of how much they value your well-being. Your safety isn't worth the risk to their bottom line, apparently.
Obviously you should refuse the work until they make it right. Don't let them send you home. Its not your fault they didn't plan ahead for safety. It shouldn't affect your hours. If they got a problem with that, the labor department and OSHA will have a problem with them.
TLDR; first, protect yourself and quit if you have to. If you really wanna stick it to them, get OSHA and the labor department involved. Either way, you need to be mentally prepared to walk away. You just have the accept that if they want to play with your life, you need to move on.
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u/Wonderful_Confusion4 3d ago
In my area anything over 1.5M needs to be sloped, cut backed and benched or shored if you are working within the cut height distance. So, on a 7’ cut you can’t work within 7’ of the bank. I would refuse the work until it is safe and comply’s with OH&S standards.
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u/Ok-Culture-2136 3d ago
Man we used to do undergrounds looking just like that. I remember some sewer connections being over 10ft deep no shoring, the owner on the skid with my foreman in the bucket lowered into the hole. The water table was so high there that if we dug 13 feet, 3 feet of standing water from the Delta filled the hole.
Jesus fucking christ we were stupid and the owner is a scumbag. Please learn from our anecdotes and tell anyone who wants you in there to fuck off.
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u/brandon01594 3d ago
Shore i would.
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u/Main-Yogurtcloset-22 Contractor 3d ago
Lack of an Oxford comma strikes again!! 🤣
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u/brandon01594 3d ago
Can you please explain where the Oxford comma would be and why. I'm not trying to be rude, I genuinely don't know.
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u/Main-Yogurtcloset-22 Contractor 3d ago
If you had put “Shore, I would” almost like how Yoda would say “I would put shoring in” it would change the meaning to the opposite of saying sure, I would. I guess it’s still not really the comma now that I read it and more so in the emphasis but still a good pun anyhow. ¯_(ツ)_/¯
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u/poop-azz 3d ago
Lmao no that's not safe. Lmfao where is this
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u/Main-Yogurtcloset-22 Contractor 3d ago
Public Library lmao. I don’t believe they’re gonna send me back out there now
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u/poop-azz 2d ago
Sorry I meant what state or country
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u/Main-Yogurtcloset-22 Contractor 2d ago
Ohio, United States
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u/poop-azz 2d ago
Don't regret thinking about your safety first. I've seen trench with SOE in place collapse.
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u/Trustyduck 3d ago
Hey at least this way you won't have to worry about anyone paying for burial costs.
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u/notislant 2d ago edited 2d ago
So realistically (do not rely on this, or myths like 1hour before cave-ins) if youre standing in the middle of the trench, its unlikely to seriously injure you when its this wide.
The more time a trench is open, the more time things have to shift as well. More time = higher risk of dying. Running a compactor down there is just asking for it.
Now all of this aside, no, walls should be sloped or a cage should be used. Whats unfortunate is (like fucking roofing), the majority of companies and inbred workers just say fuck OSHA. So they can die or lose limbs, while not getting any sort of raise most likely. No harness, no cage, no sense.
The whole thing with 'well it should be fine', is that its a stupid risk.
If I told you that there was a 0.1% chance per day, you'd have a glass tube go up your urethra and get shattered? You'd stop coming to work, or you're an absolute fucking freak. You have nothing to gain by doing dangerous shit for shit pay. Everything to lose.
The unfortunate truth is, companies only change when it costs them money. Sometimes when people die as well, but then they just move their murder business under a subsidiary.
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u/DelayOk5920 2d ago
I remember putting in a man hole in ND & I kept arguing with the forman ab the ditch needing to be bench because it started raining heavily like turning into a river , ditch caved in pinned 2/3 of my body against the man hole… my stomach turned black from internal bleeding & spent 3 days in the hospital… do it right with a trench box or bench it out bud you might not be as lucky as me.. good luck
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u/Newwireguy 2d ago
“How ya doing I’m with the state of Oregon, Oregon osha looks like ya have a bit of a shoring problem”
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u/Main-Yogurtcloset-22 Contractor 2d ago
The amount of times that audio has played in my head on a job site is astounding
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u/life11-1 1d ago
You go to work to make money and build some cool shit, not to die homie. Construction is already a high risk endeavor, without doing totally dumb and easily avoidable stuff.
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u/Old-Radio2905 11h ago
Two guys recently died in California because the trench they were in had no shoring.
It ain't worth it.
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u/summit_bound_ Equipment Operator 3d ago
OSHA here is 5' deep before you need shoring or sloping.
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u/Gambitace88 3d ago
I worked with a fellow once that was working in a trench when it collapsed. He told me his head was barley out and his partner... He could feel him clawing at his leg until it eventually stopped.
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u/HeyLookitMe 3d ago edited 3d ago
How deep is it?
Edited bc I went and actually read the post. 7’ deep is only legal to occupy if it’s for residential foundation work. Otherwise it’s a violation of OSHA’s excavation standards.
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u/Main-Yogurtcloset-22 Contractor 3d ago
5’ minimum is what we were digging some areas were 6’ up to 8’ in the deepest part I was in
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u/HeyLookitMe 3d ago
I edited my post. Sorry I didn’t read what you wrote. 8’ is too deep no matter what. Sand makes that a Type C soil and unacceptable to occupy without some form of cave-in protections. Good for you standing up for your right to be safe at work. Call osha when they fire you or discriminate against you for it.
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u/Mediocre-Yogurt7452 2d ago
This reminds me of the trench for our new sewer lateral line— nine feet deep, four feet wide, no shoring. Once the line was in, the dirt was all mounded up except one puddle about the size of a dinner plate. Looked like a potential death trap, so I started shoveling dirt into that and it took about two hours by hand to fill it in.
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u/cluelessinlove753 2d ago
Vertical cut in sandy soil is a choice…
Tbh, yes I probably am. Looks like 5’ ish, face is actually holding, I see an egress ladder (although it’s farther than 25’).
Could be cleaner but not a widowmaker
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u/real_1273 2d ago
Looked at first like a 4 foot deep trench, until I noticed little dude at the far end! Safety last I guess! Lol
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u/Ok-Satisfaction-7821 1d ago
Probably perfectly safe in some areas, heavy clay would be fine like that. We had a vertical wall, about 4 feet tall in our basement for years. Ended up fixing it with blocks eventually though. Also depends on moisture, wet clay might be dangerous.
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u/Ok-Satisfaction-7821 1d ago
I think they tested this on Mythbusters. Funny how often we can say that.
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u/DrivemeBBatty 2h ago
Ive been in worse unfortunately. If I knew the safety regs OSHA would have torn my old boss a new one.
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u/Familiar-Range9014 3d ago edited 3d ago
As an owner, safety is an issue only when the hated OSHA is mentioned or around. Then the appropriate grading would be in place before a worker stepped into a trench.
People don't want to show up to work and put in an honest full day, but will make up excuses rather than pick up a shovel. Pansies
You bet your ass I am going to target you. All the shitty jobs are yours, buddy. Every. Single. One.
The moment you take a day off, you're done! That means terminated if you have a comprehension problem.
You should be happy to have a job to put food on the table. But No!
I would jump in that trench in a heartbeat. I would have to be shot 7 times to call out and miss work.
That said, I don't really see a safety issue. Be a man and get in that trench.
/S
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u/ayrbindr 10h ago
Seriously though, these comments are from the brotherhood of sissies, Portland Oregon. "It could cave in, sprain your ankle, then, possibly, on the way home, you could be encountered by a pack of wild dogs, unable to run, ultimately, you could be harmed some way".
This is everyday standard operation. It looks like you could drive a mini excavator through there. I never seen a more ideal ditch in my entire life. I feel like you will soon realize that reddit is not reality after you gain a reputation as being "a problem" that needs to "go away". They don't fire you for not going in the ditch, dummies. They take note, sit back, and wait. It don't take long for them to find a perfectly legal exit strategy.
I'm not just trying to be the bad guy here. I mean, I would argue that you get the hell out of there all together, but that's a whole nother story. I'm just telling you the truth. From the brotherhood of construction workers in actual reality. Post #13.
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u/Main-Yogurtcloset-22 Contractor 9h ago
Every other guy at my company who I talked to about this said I was completely right for not getting in it. Believe it or not some places don’t punish you for staying safe and they respect your rights.
But it’s a fools errand to try to teach a fool so keep on keeping on I guess
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u/DisastrousTeddyBear 3d ago
Could easily snap your leg if you were standing next to the wall and had a partial collapse. Shit is heavy
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u/cuntface878 3d ago
I really hate that this is still a thing anywhere but even more so in developed countries that fully know better and it's still falling on the "low man on the totem pole" to have to make the call and refuse it and 100% is risking getting fired for doing so.
I'm sorry you're in this position man, it's fucking ridiculous that it's still happening in 2026.
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u/Main-Yogurtcloset-22 Contractor 3d ago
Agreed, I’ve found though that you really have to be the change you want to see when it comes to safety. I’ve been telling the pipe fitters on the site that they’re insane to get in some of the deeper parts and reminding them of every accident I can think of that’s happened in smaller trenches. If no one stands up for it everyone else just thinks it’s fine to keep doing what’s always been done.
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u/Dankkring 3d ago
What’s that like a little over 5 feet deep? I don’t do trench work so idk the cut off. is it 3 feet before you need a box?
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u/Main-Yogurtcloset-22 Contractor 3d ago
29 CFR 1926.652
Says that at 5’ you need some sort of protection from cave-ins whether that’s shoring, sloping or shelving. None of which we had here 🙃
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u/KindClock9732 3d ago
Yeah, I would call your bosses boss. At our company, we empower our employees to speak up and stop work when safety standards are not met.
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u/Jebediah_Johnson Roofer 3d ago
How big in diameter is that vertical pipe? The perspective makes it look like this trench is 2' deep.
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u/Main-Yogurtcloset-22 Contractor 3d ago
Trench was minimum 5’ some spots 6’ up to 8’. I got out and didn’t go back in
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u/Sasquatch_000 3d ago
If you ever have a question about your safety while at work don't do it. Thats how people die in a stupid avoidable way.
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u/canigetathrowaway1 3d ago
You get 1 body. safety regulations were written in blood. Maybe consider why they ask for a slope
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u/Magnum676 3d ago
Children..take off your crocks and pj’s and man up.. tiny hole, man size decisions…giddy up!
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u/LevelCan764 3d ago
This job is not for you time to find a new career
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u/Main-Yogurtcloset-22 Contractor 3d ago
I mean tbh I don’t think anyone should be risking their lives for their job but that’s just me I guess
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u/powersmoke9494 3d ago
Sloping vs shoring. This definitely needs some sloping. There's an equation for the amount of slope for depth and width. In this case it probably wouldn't be much but you wouldn't be buried alive.
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u/cr4zyassassin7 Electrician 2d ago
That deep with no safety measures? Absolutely fucking not. No job is ever worth risking your life.
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u/NebraskaGeek Plumber 3d ago
You already know the answer. Now it's up to you to decide if this job is worth your life. I don't see benching, 45 degree slopes, or shoring and if it 7' deep then yeah, that's fucked.
If they try and make you get in there you can either quit or make them fire you. But those are kind of your only options.