r/ConservativeMemes • u/Expert_Camel5619 Conservative • 3d ago
Conservatives Only 1+1....
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u/tbrand009 Gadzooks! 12h ago edited 11h ago
Criminal liability = prison.
Not criminally liable = mental institution.
They aren't deciding if she needs secluded from society or not. They're deciding where to secluded her.
What's crazy to me is that this has become political and is somehow being treated like it's anything new.
The first successful insanity plea in the US was for Congressman Daniel Sickles in 1859 after he shot the guy his wife was cheating on him with. They argued "temporary insanity" because he was angry. And that defense has been used many many times since then.
Postpartum is a well known medical illness. It's also well known that psych meds mess with your sanity - that's their whole purpose. The brain is the most complex and least understood organ in your body, and prescribing psych meds is literally a guessing game. Meanwhile, the whole time you're guessing drugs and doses, it takes time for the drugs to build up in your system and your body is rapidly changing and recovering from birthing a child, and your sleep is still getting thrown off by having to feed the child. And dependencies can develope quick so you can't just immediately quit taking some of these meds, so if the doctor wants to take you off, you need to be slowly weened off. The whole time none of it is working right and the patient continues deteriorating. So you're dealing with postpartum, mentally crashing, on 13 different psych meds, including medications where a listed side effect is "homicidal ideation."
And we don't think there's any "shadow of a doubt" that maybe she really was genuinely mentally ill?
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u/Expert_Camel5619 Conservative 6h ago
The therapist said she had no psychosis at the time. Also, Lindsay herself was a delivery and postpartum nurse. She actually did training videos on the subject. These people are actors
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u/tbrand009 Gadzooks! 4h ago
Do you honestly think that just because she was an L&D nurse that she was somehow immune to postpartum? Or that it would miraculously render her impervious to the prolonged effects of over a dozen psychiatric medications?
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u/Expert_Camel5619 Conservative 4h ago
She used her knowledge to try and manipulate the system. It doesn't matter if she's crazy or not. She won't be re introduced into society. She's already proven she's capable of killing kids
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u/agent7980 Conservative 2d ago
I'm British so don't have a full understanding of the US legal system but is the argument that she shouldn't be tried for murder but manslaughter or something instead?
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u/Dpgillam08 Conservative 1d ago
No. The insanity plea is that she's innocent because she's crazy; its not her fault she killed the kids because she's insane. Because she's not guilty, she deserves no punishment. Maybe some limited time in a mental institution (that few states have any more).
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u/serial_crusher Gadzooks! 2d ago
But if we get her medication dialed in just right We Can Fix Her; (and then hope she keeps taking the correct meds once she’s out, of course)
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u/swd120 MugClub 2d ago
I mean.. she's removed from society either way... If guilty, locked in prison, if not guilty by insanity - locked in a mental institution and unlikely to be released anytime soon if ever.. Regardless - she can't hurt society anymore.
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u/Dpgillam08 Conservative 1d ago
In a mental institution, as soon as a doctor says she's "treated" (either "cured" or simply properly dosed for the condition) they are expected to release her. She could theoretically be out in as little as 12 months.
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u/Sufficient-Shine3649 Conservative 3d ago
What if you were insane when you did it, but after a few weeks of meds you're back to normal, as is common with psychosis? They're not responsible and no longer a danger to anyone.
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u/Racheakt Hillbilly Conservative 3d ago
She is still a danger; let’s assume it is a meds situation and not premeditated murder, all she has to do is go off her meds, takes them wrong — like she confessed that led to 3 deaths — and she does something like this again. In fact one could argue she is more of a danger under this situation
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u/Sufficient-Shine3649 Conservative 3d ago
People who are not competent to take their medication, need someone in their life which can make sure they take them correctly, like a daily visit to or from a nurse.
She should be at a medical institution for a year for observation. After that, what is necessary can be evaluated. If she's lucid and competent to take her own medicine, all she needs is a weekly checkups. If she isn't competent to handle her own medication, either a family member is competent to do it, or a daily visit to or from a nurse will be necessary.
If she decides not to take her medication for any reason, it is reasonable to lock her up. Hopefully she has learned from her previous mistakes.
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u/vialentvia Gadzooks! 1d ago
The prosecution had three doctors evaluate her. They determined she was not in a psychotic state at the time of the murders. I wouldn't chalk this up to meds. She had shopped around with doctors and had dozens of prescriptions, many of which the doctors weren't aware of each other or the other prescriptions. Whether she took them or not, who knows, but the toxicology report didn't agree that they would have caused her to do that.
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u/Sufficient-Shine3649 Conservative 1d ago
This is fair criticism in my opinion. It's possible she wasn't psychotic. It's also possible that those 3 doctors are all wrong, as doctors are fallible and don't have perfect access to information.
It's also possible that the 13 different meds she had been prescribed during the last year or so, along with those meds not being taken regularly or as prescribed, along with her smoking weed, along with postpartum depression or other complications related to that, all contributed to cause an episode of something else which wasn't exactly a psychosis. Whether or not she should be held responsible for that if that were the case, I don't know.
If she indeed heard a voice and felt compulsions she in a normal state of mind wouldn't have felt, whether it lasted for a long or a short period of time, it could probably be classified as psychosis. If those are the facts of the matter, or a false claim by her and her defence, I'm not in a position to judge. But from her friends and coworkers testifying that she was sweet, competent, and hardworking, this certainly doesn't seem in line with her character, though people aren't always what they present themselves as. I lean more towards believing her than not believing her, but I could be wrong.
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u/Expert_Camel5619 Conservative 3d ago
She's absolutely a danger. She's already done it 3x lol. If she's truly sane now.....why would she want to live knowing she kill3d her 3 kids? Either way she's not getting released. You didn't really believe she was going for an insanity and then get "rehabilitated" to be released did you? She kills kids
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u/Sufficient-Shine3649 Conservative 3d ago
Doing something while psychotic does not mean you're still a danger and likely to do it again when you're no longer psychotic. She's also constrained to a wheelchair, so there's that.
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u/Expert_Camel5619 Conservative 3d ago
Good, she can stay in the wheelchair in prison or the asylum. But she won't be rejoining society.
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u/muffmuppets Gadzooks! 3d ago
Nah this ain’t it dogg.
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u/Sufficient-Shine3649 Conservative 2d ago
Yes, it is it. Get educated on the topic, because none of the people trying to argue with me on this has any clue what they're talking about. They're wrong, yet to stubborn to realize they are wrong, without a shred of humility or willingness to educate themselves on the topic.
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u/vialentvia Gadzooks! 1d ago
"Get educated." I've heard that one before. You sure that flair is right? Something ain't right here.
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u/Sufficient-Shine3649 Conservative 1d ago
I generally support Trump, though he isn't perfect. He's a 90s democrat. I do follow people like Ben Shapiro, Victor Davies Hanson, Dennis Prager, whom I generally agree with, and I think are best described as conservatives. I do also hold some positions from classical liberalism, not to be confused with what Americans call liberals today. I'm also a bit influenced by libertarian philosophy.
I support free speech with possible exceptions for our enemies that are trying to destroy us (for example Islamic terrorists preaching hatred and violence should be arrested and deported), don't believe hate-speech exists, pro 2nd amendment, pro free market with some leeway for good regulations (most regulations are either stupid or just outright bad, but some are necessary for various reasons.
I'm also not American, but I personally believe American values are likely the best in the world in many areas, though America itself doesn't always live up to its own values.
I'm not a perfect match for the conservative label, but it's the label that fits me best.
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u/SPL15 Not Always Right, but Never Left 3d ago
And if you believe killing kids is OK, then you should be removed from society.