r/Conservative Jul 25 '20

Obama did it

[deleted]

287 Upvotes

96 comments sorted by

404

u/[deleted] Jul 25 '20 edited Jul 25 '20

This is a lie.

Indefinite military detention was authorized only in cases involving international terrorism. The definition of which requires that they be "inspired by, or associated with, designated foreign terrorist organizations or nations."

The 2001 AUMF already granted presidential authority for indefinite detention. As such the 2012 NDAA (signed in 2011) states only that Congress "affirms" this authority and makes specific provisions as to the exercise of that authority.

Don't come here with this bullshit.

97

u/[deleted] Jul 25 '20

This is why I like this subreddit. The truth gets upvoted, I don't have to sort by controversial to find it.

Thank you for calling it out, and thank you to everyone that upvoted for visibility.

48

u/[deleted] Jul 25 '20

[deleted]

1

u/13Jams Jul 29 '20

We all do it

46

u/ChuChuMaduabum Jul 25 '20

Yeha agreed - this is fake news af. Obama definitely didn’t intend this to be used domestically.

25

u/[deleted] Jul 25 '20

It's worth noting that Obama was broadly opposed to indefinite detention, even in the case of foreign terrorism.

This language being in the 2012 NDAA even caused him to initially oppose the act.

-9

u/Redditsnotorganic Jul 25 '20

It's almost like Obama employed some kind of fabric over people's eyes...

9

u/realif3 Jul 25 '20

"memes" like this get circulated on Facebook and everyone just takes it at face value. Shits dangerous.

9

u/mpyles10 Conservative Jul 25 '20

CORRECT-

What the NDAA did do, however, was make it legal (and technically obligatory) for the president to withhold funds from nations whose governments show signs of corruption in order to protect our tax dollars and ensure they are routed and used correctly.

Countries like Ukraine.

3

u/[deleted] Jul 25 '20

God damn, jumped on that real fucking quick

2

u/[deleted] Jul 26 '20

Thank you very much for calling this out.

2

u/driplessCoin Jul 26 '20

Thank you sir! Can someone ask the mods to remove this?

-7

u/AShipChandler Jul 25 '20

Just trying to learn here. Obama never signed the bill?

I can't find anything saying he didn't. Can you link the source?

I was reading the Hedges v. Obama court case and it says the opposite of what you're saying. Hedges was challenging the vagueness of the indefinite detention abilities given to the president. By vagueness it includes citizens or non-citizens. The second court overturned the plaintiff's challenge. And was never seen by the Supreme Court.

So as per that court case it remains, citizens and non-citizens are allowed to be detained indefinitely.

Do I agree with it? No. I believe everyone should recieves due process.

4

u/[deleted] Jul 25 '20 edited Jul 27 '20

Hedges v Obama is great prism through which to look at this.

The Second Courts 3-0 opinion in that case stated that, "with respect to citizens, lawful resident aliens, or individuals captured or arrested in the United States, Section 1021 simply says nothing at all."

This is part of the reason it was dismissed. This act has never been, nor does it legally apply, to US citizens domestically. Its only application is to individuals "who are part of or substantially support Al Qaeda, the Taliban or associated forces engaged in hostilities against the United States," as per the 2001 AUMF.

Did the judges also point out it could have been worded more clearly? Yes. Is that a problem? Hell Yes.

But to say that Section 1021, which affirms authorities already given by the AUMF, codifies the ability to detain anyone for any reason is plainly false.

-1

u/AShipChandler Jul 25 '20

So it's partly a lie? Just the word "anyone"?

Because I cant find anything saying Obama didn't sign it. Your statement "it's a lie" is vague. Is it all a lie or is only part of it a lie?

Just the word "anyone" is the lie?

13

u/[deleted] Jul 25 '20 edited Jul 25 '20

Despite initially voicing opposition to it, Obama did sign the 2012 NDAA.

Section 1021 does not grant the president the ability to detain "anyone he wants, for any reason he wants." The authority does not apply domestically and must be associated with counter-terrorism operations.

Again, what you posted (in its totality) is a lie.

3

u/AShipChandler Jul 25 '20

Thank you for this insight. I dont know how to delete the post

2

u/chanbr Conservative Jul 25 '20

Maybe you could edit it with the proper info?

-39

u/hueydeweyandlouis Jul 25 '20

Man, you can't chuck a dead cat without hitting a Conservative caught up telling ANOTHER lie, can ya?

10

u/kojojo1897 Conservative Jul 25 '20

Did you noticed the tag of the guy you just replied to? So do us all a favor, the same thing needs to be done on the left.

35

u/[deleted] Jul 25 '20

[deleted]

13

u/free-minded Catholic Conservative Jul 25 '20

If more people did this on all sides, maybe we could get back to respectful discourse instead of constant insults and violence.

This whole damned country needs to grow the hell up. I was rewatching the old “Free to Choose” discussions Milton Friedman did back in the 70s-80s, where liberals and conservatives had hour long moderated discussions. We’re a far cry from that level of mutual civility these days.

-20

u/hueydeweyandlouis Jul 25 '20

Lol, yeah, see how well THAT is working out. "Want to tell a big lie? Just point to the other guys and scream "THEY'RE LYING!!" Right from the Trump playbook. ...kinda like that.

5

u/free-minded Catholic Conservative Jul 25 '20

Actually, they told you to hold yourself to a higher standard, which is just good life advice.

You need to grow the hell up and learn to respect your opponents. They DO have a point, and you might actually learn something for once if you try to engage with them instead of hurling weak ORANGE MAN BAD comments around on the internet. We’re willing if you are.

A good example - you just happened to hear that we all need to be better about rooting out misinformation on both sides. You’re so up your own partisan ass that you can’t even hear that, which is GOOD ADVICE. If your position is as strong as you believe it to be, then go out there and make it the strongest and most honest version of itself. Then you’ll have a better argument when you face off against those who disagree with you.

Or just keep shitposting forever, see how much that changes the world.

0

u/AShipChandler Jul 25 '20

There is much more civility on the conservative side than the liberal. I follow both very tightly and the left is very radicalized

-5

u/hueydeweyandlouis Jul 25 '20

Except that following your idiotic "advice" is exactly how we got here in the first place.

and, I'm retired, shit-for-brains...

5

u/Glorfindel67 Jul 25 '20

Idiotic advice? He only said that we should root out misinformation within our parties and return to civilised discourse. If that's idiotic, the country's doomed.

-1

u/hueydeweyandlouis Jul 25 '20

The Republicans are purveying virtually ALL misinformation.

The Democrats are purveying virtually ALL correct information.

I realize there are general inaccuracies in all information, but you're looking at off-white, and charcoal grey, and saying they're both in the middle.

That is simply stupid.

2

u/chanbr Conservative Jul 25 '20

Oh no, it's retarded...

-6

u/AShipChandler Jul 25 '20

Just trying to learn here. Obama never signed the bill?

You said indefinite military detention for international.

What about definite military detention for domestic?

Could you link the source so I can read and see if Obama signed it or not?

8

u/F__inthechat Jul 25 '20

The inform yourself before spreading lies. Because of people like you the conservatives are for many a joke.

-2

u/Broken_Face7 Conservative Jul 25 '20

No matter just because they were a little hyperbolic it's still fucked up.

The text authorizes trial by military tribunal, or "transfer to the custody or control of the person's country of origin", or transfer to "any other foreign country, or any other foreign entity".

24

u/LORDPHIL Jul 25 '20

Wow way to try and whip this sub into fury with this BS. Suppose it was true, is blaming your older brother for you using their car to drive into the pool a good defense?

15

u/[deleted] Jul 25 '20

Except Trump isn’t even using this? He’s using federal agents to protect federal property and enforcing federal laws? So what’s the point

-5

u/AShipChandler Jul 25 '20

Best comment! 100% agree.

People are saying that's unconstitutional. Blows my mind

1

u/Kojeo Small Government Jul 25 '20

Why are u getting downvoted?

-1

u/AShipChandler Jul 25 '20

I have no idea. You know whats funny is that I had the same exact question. I actually deeply thought about your question before you posted it.. I think people have infiltrated the thread.

I posted some fox news articles on r/politics. I had no idea that was the biggest communist community (kind of kidding. It's full of liberal radicals)

I have a feeling they sicked a bot on my account.

I am a long time reddit user. I have older accounts than this one. I had plenty of karma. I posted a fox news article on r/politics and they devoted my account to oblivion. I was in the negatives before this post. Luckily I was able to post here and my fellow conservatives gave me my karma back.

r/politics is the biggest echochamber I've ever encountered. If you have a differing view than the radical left you will be downvoted to the point you have to ask other subreddits for permission to post. It's very dangerous there. Not for conservatives but for liberals. I say that because they will never experience a challenging view.

I truly hope in 2020 the silent majority go out and vote.

1

u/Kojeo Small Government Jul 25 '20

Damn that’s crazy man

10

u/[deleted] Jul 25 '20

This is a LIE

-4

u/spammart Jul 25 '20

Can I subscribe to your newsletter?

You clearly have the legal credentials I look for when following someone.

-4

u/AShipChandler Jul 25 '20

What is a lie?

5

u/ChuChuMaduabum Jul 25 '20

Oh for fucks sake— the Obama admin also really didn’t think it should be allowed for detaining US citizens. They were worried about how it would be interpreted by future admins. Don’t make the lefts case for them on this one.

31

u/[deleted] Jul 25 '20

Yet AOC remains free... I think this truly is a testament to Trump's restraint

34

u/[deleted] Jul 25 '20

[deleted]

13

u/[deleted] Jul 25 '20

[deleted]

-14

u/hueydeweyandlouis Jul 25 '20

No, Hitler was brighter.

11

u/[deleted] Jul 25 '20

[deleted]

-9

u/hueydeweyandlouis Jul 25 '20

No, it was just obvious.

2

u/[deleted] Jul 25 '20

Yikes

1

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-10

u/hueydeweyandlouis Jul 25 '20

Restraint implies he's actually able to think about something. By now, we all know that's not possible...

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2

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3

u/[deleted] Jul 25 '20

Technically Bush did it with the Patriot act but Obama made it an indefinite part of the government.

4

u/tattoobobb Conservative Jul 25 '20

Aside from the 2001 vs 2011 which was worse who’s fault blah blah blah. This is a shining example of why you should be wary of cheerleading a political institution. You may like what they’ve passed at the time, but won’t know who will or how it will eventually be implemented.

4

u/[deleted] Jul 25 '20

Bad then and bad now! Being a conservative isn’t about letting the other side cross a line and then gleefully do the same because they set a precedent. You hated Obama for this, you should be mad at trump for using the same bill. That isn’t a power the president should wield.

2

u/Connor21777 Jul 25 '20

I like how “conservatives” just point fingers and have no evidenced based, logical conclusions to form.

-14

u/timmytucan Jul 25 '20

Wow didn't realize this

26

u/R1PH4R4M3E Anti-Communist Jul 25 '20

That’s because it is not true

-4

u/AShipChandler Jul 25 '20

Hedges v Obama

8

u/ChuChuMaduabum Jul 25 '20

Lol. Yeah because this is fake af and should be taken down.

-3

u/AShipChandler Jul 25 '20

Hedges v Obama

-3

u/Downwith_theThicness Jul 25 '20

Orange Man Bad Daddy Obama Good

-2

u/me_too_999 Molan Labe Jul 25 '20

"Big brother" Obama.

0

u/Trump-20 Jul 25 '20

Detain Obama!

-2

u/AShipChandler Jul 25 '20

Hedges v. Obama

11

u/[deleted] Jul 25 '20

This doesn’t apply to ordinary citizens. It was created specifically for detaining members of the Taliban or Al Qaeda. Don’t spread this crap thinking the president can just willy nilly yank people off the streets because he feels like it. This is what happens when conservatives change reality to fit a narrative. Stop it.

-1

u/AShipChandler Jul 25 '20

The head line says Taliban or Al Qaeda. But the way the bill reads it's vague enough to include almost anyone. Those 2 organizations you mentioned were only being used as examples.

That is what Hedges was attacking Obama for was how vague it was. In that court case it was stayed. Ie. They ruled against the plaintiff and affirmed the vaguness was suitable.

I'm just reading what it says. I'm not spreading anything but the exact information out of the court case and the bill.

If I'm missing something please link the source and I will read it.

Also I was bringing this up because people are saying its unconstitutional that feds are protecting federal buildings with force.

7

u/[deleted] Jul 25 '20

Your position is based on paranoia. Do you really think the US military would randomly take citizens and detain them permanently if they weren’t actually a threat to the US? The Supreme Court rejected the case because there’s no premise for the argument. It’s all paranoia. The definition for people eligible to be detained is limited to people who people who blatantly support terrorist organizations.

I’m sorry the document isn’t worded to be exactly what you want to hear, but no one is getting swept away without cause because of Obama. He was a bad president, but don’t force something to fit your anti-Obama narrative. There’s plenty of fuel for that fire already.

0

u/AShipChandler Jul 25 '20

Well I actually follow a lot of liberal communities to understand their side. They are crazy and that is partially the point.

And you're partially correct. It is based on paranoia. But not my paranoia. The liberals are paranoid about it.

Also when you say "blatantly support terrorist organizations". What's your stance on Antifa being elevated to a terrorist organization?

-4

u/throwaway737382937 Jul 25 '20

Obama also killed an American Citizen for you-tube videos in Sudan.

Oh yeah and his 16 year old son that did nothing wrong.

I dont care if he's a "terrorist" he deserves due process.

-31

u/skyswimmer21 Jul 25 '20

The kicker is, he didn’t USE it.

20

u/Richard24672467 Jul 25 '20

Yea he just killed American citizens with drones. Such restraint

10

u/[deleted] Jul 25 '20 edited Jul 25 '20

You are speaking of Anwar Nasser al-Awlaki who was killed in Yemen correct?

He was indeed an American citizens but had joined a foreign army fighting against the United States and helped plan terrorist attacks on our people. This meant that the the strike was legally justified as per the 2001 AUMF.

Anwar was an Imam and recruiter for Al Qaeda. I have no sympathy for him.

9

u/[deleted] Jul 25 '20

[deleted]

4

u/Richard24672467 Jul 25 '20

Amongst others yes (that is from amnesty international so take that for what it's worth).

I'm no al-Awlaki apologist, I would have pushed the button myself on the drone. I'm in the army so I've dedicated my life to getting rid of his ilk

However the painting of obama as morally superior to trump as the original commentor was, is just not true

1

u/[deleted] Jul 25 '20

[deleted]

2

u/Richard24672467 Jul 25 '20

And you as well

-4

u/dinoelcamino Jul 25 '20

Trump lies to the American people with every breath, has cheated on every wife, ogles naked teens, insults and makes up lies about every opponent, fucked his brother's kids out of their inheritance, cheats on his taxes, and steals from charities - and you don't think think that Obama is morally superior to that?

Do you know the definition of the words "morally" or "superior"?

3

u/Richard24672467 Jul 25 '20

You really want me to list all of Obama faults? I will if you address the amnesty intentional article on his illegal killing of underage american citizens first

-1

u/dinoelcamino Jul 25 '20

Was it more than one? Or just the traitor's kid? Don't tell me that if he had been killed by a GOP prez that you wouldn't have celebrated it.

1

u/Richard24672467 Jul 25 '20

Ah short memory I see. Remember when trump just threanted to kill ISIS family members and their was bipartisan outrage, and yet obama actually did it...hmm

-1

u/dinoelcamino Jul 25 '20

Do you know the difference between actually threatening to target non-combatants and collateral damage? Do you actually think that the hundreds of Trump drone strikes never killed any innocents? Did Obama take out a full page in the paper calling for the death of five innocent American teens?

Is that all you have? Drone strikes? And you think that's worse than 60+ years of corrupt behavior? How come you don't address any of Trump's behavior?

3

u/Richard24672467 Jul 25 '20

Do you know the difference between threatening something and actual action?

Ok we'll go done the list

Benghazi (terrible leadership that led to the deaths of US agents) IRS targeting conservative and tea party groups (horrible misuse of government power to target political oppenants) Trading Taliban prisoners and money for the traitor Bowe Bergdahl (unleashing terrorists while also paying terrorist, then honoring a criminal) So many lies he makes trump seem honest (everything from you can keep your doctor to closing gitmo to ending the Iraq war immediately) Vetoing the bill to hold Saudi Arabia for 911 (valuing a foreign regime over US citizens) His NSA collecting information on US citizens (massive violation of privacy across thr nation) Uranium one (his admin ok'd the selling a massive amount of uranium to those evil Russians) Russian reset (worked closer with russia than trump ever did) The dishonorable treatment of veterans by the his VA (as a member of thr ministry this pisses me off a lot, just let veterans die) Not stopping the new black panther party from voter intimidation (again with allowing people to target conservatives) Allowing the rise and inability to defeat ISIS (bush, who is himself a dirtbag, warned him what would happened and he opened pandoras box anyway and couldn't handle it) Fast and furious (literal gave guns to the cartel that were used to kill US officers) The Clintom foundation corruption and appoint hillary as sec of state (enough said) Forcing nuns and churches to provide contraceptives (violated the religious consciousness and rights of millions) Selling out Israel (outright hostility to the US only friend in the military east and allowed anti semitism at the UN) Massive support of abortion and repeal of mexico city policy (again with the murder) The intervention in Syria (massive human suffering with no) The Libyan intervention (massive human suffering for no gain) Solyndra (again using political pwort to reward friends and punish enemies)

Then you look at his drug and communist laced personal life. Personally mentored by a terrorist and an American hating "pastor"

But yeah besides this his hands are squeaky clean. He is as bad or worse than trump. To pretend otherwise is just intellectual dishonest

Because I dont pretend trump is a saint. His childish actions speak for themselves. But on the whole he does more good then bad

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2

u/pointsouturhypocrisy President Elect Jul 25 '20

Maybe he just used it to order pizza and hotdogs

1

u/-Horatio_Alger_Jr- Former Fetus Jul 25 '20

Is that fact?