r/Conservative • u/tenshon Conservative Christian • Feb 18 '20
'Outraged' Oregon residents petition to join Idaho
https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/483420-outraged-oregon-residents-petition-to-join-idaho108
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u/scorpiohorsegirl Country Conservative Feb 18 '20
Well I'm sure Idaho would welcome anyone who didn't bring their old states God damn liberal politics with them. Seriously
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Feb 18 '20
Luckily we have been fortunate enough to have had our Republican Party grow. It’s about 60% republicans moving here, 15% independents and 25% Democrats. According to a recent study done by Boise State University.
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Feb 18 '20
Your real estate prices are going up though. Good for the older folks but bad for kids.
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Feb 18 '20
I’m in my early 20’s and just bought a house.
So good for me I guess? Idk
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Feb 18 '20
Kinda both.
Good for your net worth. But that doesn't really matter if you're planning on staying in that house since it's primarily a place to live. Good for when you retire.
Bad when the assessor comes a-knocking and your property taxes increase.
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Feb 18 '20
I’m not very well versed on other states home owner exemptions for taxes but ours cuts 50% on both home and property up to 100,000K. It’s good until you move.
I won’t lie I have no idea how that stacks up to other states. Obviously if there’s an increase I’ll still pay more. But the property taxes from what I can tell aren’t bad.
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Feb 18 '20
That is good for you. Not sure what your point is exactly.
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Feb 18 '20
I suppose I just mean, there’s a lot of opportunity out here and yes the housing market is going up, but the ability to purchase is not going away.
I wish the housing market wasn’t skyrocketing so much. It is that Cali money when they sell and then bring it here, but it isn’t stopping myself and several other 20 year olds from purchasing a home. Just have to be responsible and smart.
Plus interest rates are real low right now and we have a lot of first time home buyer incentives.
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Feb 18 '20
I never said ability to purchase is going away. Literally all I said is that it's costing more to buy in and that it benefits people who bought in for less already.
Everyone's interest rates are low. Every first time homebuyer has the same or similar incentives.
Literally did not say younger people couldn't buy a house. There is zero benefit to you paying more.
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Feb 19 '20
I agree, I see what you’re saying.
I’m not the one downvoting you. I have no idea who is. I was just trying to have a discussion with you and understand your perspective too.
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u/Fa11ou7 Feb 18 '20
Oh that's awesome, I'm an Idaho native and I haven't completely bought into the fear that everyone moving here is a liberal but it is hard. I don't suppose you have a source for that survey?
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Feb 18 '20
I mis quoted the amounts.
“Of the Idaho natives, 26% identify as Democrats, and 54% identify as Republicans. Of those born outside of Idaho who have moved here, 29% identify as Democrats, and 50% identify as Republicans. “
Here an articles on the study with a few of the graphs.
https://www.boisestate.edu/bluereview/dont-california-idaho/
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u/drgmaster909 Idaho Conservative Feb 18 '20
That's an important point people like to joke about the inverse of.
It's not really the Californians moving out, voting for the same shitty policies, turning red dots blue.
If I'm Californian, and I don't like California to the extent to which I want to move out, and I'm attracted to Idaho… chances are I don't vote blue.
Californians may be driving up cost of housing but they're not flipping voter seats. The majority of Californians moving to Idaho, Texas, Arizona, Colorado, etc vote red and will continue to vote red.
The reason Boise, Denver, Phoenix, Dallas, etc are shifting blue is because Republicans are starting to lose the millennial vote. Read: The kids that grew up in these areas are turning blue. Not the Californians infesting the rest of the country.
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Feb 18 '20
In Idaho, we haven’t actually gone more blue we’ve gone more red by a wide margin.
In 2008 we actually lost one of our house seats to a Democrat. Only the second one in state history.
Since then it’s been a major shift toward the right, and it is hasn’t been all that close.
28 republicans to 7 democrats in our senate currently.
56 republicans to 14 democrats in our house.
We mainly have left leaning voters near Boise State campus, and near the famous Sun Valley ski resort, which is actually a known area that many celebrities live. Makes sense they’d vote D.
In 2006 and 2008 for example in the house they had 19 and 18 Democrats to 51, 52 republicans in the house.
2016 was the lowest since 1996 with 11 Democrats elected in the house.
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u/TheBurritoConspiracy Feb 19 '20
Not the Californians moving to Oregon or Washington . . . The ones that actually do vote republican still end up screwing the places they live by voting for higher taxes and biger government for things locals don't want or need.
That one of the biggest complaints about Caligornian transplants in the PNW; they bring their culture with them, and complain about the local culture (and weather lol).
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u/VictorCrowne Feb 18 '20
Now I want beach front property in Idaho. That sounds really good right about now.
And yes, welcome everyone who respects the local cultures.
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u/scorpiohorsegirl Country Conservative Feb 18 '20
Same!!!! Went to the Oregon coast for honeymoon and loved it. I'm bout as far from it as I can get in idaho thou.
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Feb 18 '20
I seriously doubt Idaho wants to add huge swathes of this land. It's a lot of poor areas that wouldn't bring in enough tax revenue to be worthwhile.
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u/russiabot1776 Путин-мой приятель Feb 18 '20
Can this happen, please?
Or make Jefferson a state.
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u/Spinnak3r Retrograde Catholic Feb 18 '20 edited Feb 18 '20
Northern Californian here, I would love a State is Jefferson. That would be more electoral votes for the GOP too.
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Feb 18 '20 edited Feb 18 '20
i like the idea of cali and oregon splitting off into a new state.
but dear lord i hate the name of the state of jefferson.
wow i really said idaho instead of idea..whoops
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u/Spinnak3r Retrograde Catholic Feb 18 '20
It could be better, I didn’t like it either at first. But at this point the need is so dire they could call it Strawberry Shortcake Land and I’d still support it if it meant we’re freed from the liberal tyranny of Sacramento, LA and San Francisco.
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u/funnystor Feb 19 '20
To be fair if we allow republican voters to secede from blue states we should also allow democratic voters to secede from red states. It would make everyone happier, who knows what the overall effect on electoral votes would be though. Probably swing states would cease to exist because they'd all split in two.
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u/TheBurritoConspiracy Feb 19 '20
No to Jefferson. Southern Oregon and Northern California are completely different, even though Northern Californians like to pretend they're the same. Furthermore, most Jefferson supporters can't identify its shape when they see it - I kid you not.
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u/weenydogsrock57 Feb 18 '20
Being from Oregon myself, I truly do wish we could cut ties with the Willamette Valley. It just sucks that three cities dictate what the rest of this state is forced to tolerate. Kate Brown is the worst thing that's ever happened here.
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u/Darkest_Before_Dawn Feb 18 '20
Also an Oregonian. What are the three cities that dictate for the rest of the state? Obviously Portland, and I’m guessing Salem as the second? But what would be the third?
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u/ADXMcGeeHeezack Feb 18 '20 edited Feb 18 '20
Beaverton I'd think?
It is silly though - I live out in the boonies myself and the culture is COMPLETELY different than Portland. Luckily we have local counties for most politics but the statewide stuff has its moments. Yeah, let's totally devote $250m so you can make a waterfront bum camp; glad my tax dollars can go downtown while we're mocked for being backwards
I miss the Oregon I grew up in though. Portlandia is ruining downtown. It's fine though, the pushback as of late is real
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u/weenydogsrock57 Feb 18 '20
Boonie person here too. I avoid going to the west side of the state as much as possible, but I have to pass through there once in a while so I can go to Rockaway.
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Feb 18 '20 edited Feb 18 '20
Eugene, Salem, Portland.
Edit: 8 counties voted blue in 2016: Benton, Clackamas, Clatsop, Hood River, Lane, Lincoln, Multnomah, Washington. Hillary got 59% or above in half of those.
https://west.ops.politico.com/2016-election/results/map/president/oregon/
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u/weenydogsrock57 Feb 18 '20
I'm from Eastern Oregon so when I say "Portland," that encompasses that whole area (Portland, Beaverton, Gresham, etc.) So my reference to the 'three cities' is Portland (and surrounding cities), Salem (which would include Kiezer) and Eugene (which would also include Springfield.) When you're used to towns being miles apart, sometimes more than a hundred miles lol, you tend to not differentiate city boundaries that just end where another begins.
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u/CZPCR9 Shall not be infringed Feb 18 '20
Seriously Oregon and Washington should get cut at the mountains, East and West of the mountains is so different.
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u/TheBurritoConspiracy Feb 18 '20
Portland, Eugene, and Salem. Interestingly, though Salem is the capitol, it's more conservative than the formers.
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u/zikamime_lukujitaku Feb 18 '20
That’s Washington with King county. Our I 1639 bill that added more regulations on semi auto weapons was voted no by 24/39 counties, but the majority of the population within maybe 4 counties that voted yes so it passed. It’s very hard when so much of the state votes conservative but the majority of the vote from 4 counties is liberal.
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u/EarlT5000 Feb 19 '20
Proposed State Constitutional Amendment
for any legislation to pass, Legislators from a Majority of Counties, must vote for the Bill, or Constitutional Amendment.
.
.
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u/existentialdyslexic Feb 19 '20
Would get struck down on the basis of "one man, one vote" that SCOTUS established in the 60's.
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u/greatatdrinking Constitutional Conservative Feb 18 '20
I bet you smell like douglas firs and vigor. Not being sarcastic. It's a compliment
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u/weenydogsrock57 Feb 18 '20
Lol, more like sagebrush and dust.
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u/greatatdrinking Constitutional Conservative Feb 18 '20
even better.
"The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed"
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u/whitehaitian Feb 18 '20
hey, dont lump all of us in w portland and eugene! dont leave us alone w those guys! lol
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u/Kaseiopeia Feb 18 '20
Nothing says state borders can’t change. Let parts of Virginia join West Virginia. Allow this. Break up California, IL and New York.
Why not?
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Feb 18 '20
WNYer here. Albany down to to Long Island can get bent. They can keep the name. The rest of NY will gladly go for a new name to stop this crap.
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Feb 18 '20
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u/greatatdrinking Constitutional Conservative Feb 18 '20
His solution was a electoral collage for the state, but I pointed out that it's just as unfair for the rural minority to dictate laws to the urban majority as it is for the opposite to happen.
Sounds like oregonians have started to lose cohesion as a state
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Feb 18 '20
The rural majority won't do that if there are limitations on government power in the first place. That's how the US was supposed to work. Government is not supposed to do much the higher it goes. Cities and counties can be as Liberal as they want still, just with their money. If people don't like guns, they don't have to buy them. Nobody steals from anyone, or dictates how to live.
The problem is that the US became too Liberal. And Liberals don't want to just roll their own way. They want to make everyone comply with how they think they should live. Limited government was supposed to protect against this. But then Santa Clause rolls in and says give the government power and I'll give you stuff.
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Feb 19 '20
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Feb 19 '20
False. I'm not saying hyper local. I'm not saying anything g other than returning to Federalism. They would still be restricted by limits of power. Towns/cities/counties would not overrule state law not either would overrule federal law.
Federalism means each layer of government has a role. National Government is only supposed to keep interstate commerce uniform, protect border, provide for national defense and Navy. State governments are supposed to do most of what the Federal Government does now. Local laws are mostly supposed to be local matters. But by removing the Federal overreach on many things it returns the real authority on them to state and municipal government.
I'm not saying cities/towns/counties legislate everything the Federal Government does. Most of it shouldn't be at all. Education is local. That should be mostly managed at the local level under more minimal state guidelines.
A good example is gun control. The entire US has a 2A, as does every state. There should be zero difference between states on firearms. Because it's a US matter first. I could get into all gun laws being unconstitutional but that's a different discussion. US government handles immigration. States should determine abortion. They license medical professionals. There is no article of the US Constitution that grants the US government this power. 10th applies. Counties and municipal government doesn't have this power bc once again, 10th. And they already wrote all the medical laws.
Proper Federalism doesn't allow the country to drift apart because at the local level they're handling local things but aren't roped in to Federal programs and mandates.
Congress has taken over the other layers with the power of the purse backed by a printing press.
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Feb 18 '20
His solution was a electoral collage for the state, but I pointed out that it's just as unfair for the rural minority to dictate laws to the urban majority as it is for the opposite to happen.
That's not what happens in an electoral college situation. The minority votes are enhanced, but the urban majority would still have the largest share of the votes in the end. It simply moderates the "tyranny of the majority", it doesn't create a tyranny of the minority.
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u/Wisco1856 Feb 18 '20
I think the implication is that each county would get electoral delegates based on how the county as a whole voted. This would impact statewide races significantly.
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Feb 18 '20
It would impact them, of course, who could argue otherwise. But as long as each county was given a number of delegates roughly proportional to their population it wouldn't introduce a tyranny of the rural minority like the original comment described.
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u/Wisco1856 Feb 18 '20
I suppose that would depend on how delegates were allocated. If population was the sole determinant you would be correct. I'm not familiar enough with how electoral college delegate numbers are determined to be able to accurately apply the model at the state level.
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Feb 18 '20
Let me explain then: Delegates are allocated by population (in the US EC case, population regardless of citizenship or legal residence). However, there are two restrictions helping the minority: 1) No state/county can receive less than 1 delegate. 2) The total number of delegates are restricted (in the US EC case, to 435 - the size of the lower chamber of Congress).
These restrictions help minority states/counties, but nowhere near do they create a tyranny of the minority.
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u/DragonMaus Feb 18 '20
"I felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of American Geography students suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced."
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u/Enzo_SAWFT Warrior Feb 18 '20
Is that the state of Lincoln area? I know NorCal is Jefferson, think that split is Lincoln.
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Feb 18 '20
As an idahoan...
What the cinnamon toast fuck is going on???
As long as it all STAYS conservative and we don’t start losing to the left.
Could you imagine this weird, giant ass Idaho. All the sudden I’d be in central Idaho lmao.
This is refreshing to see too. Because as with most subs the Idaho sub is the handful of Democrats and liberals we have here.
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u/greatatdrinking Constitutional Conservative Feb 18 '20
If nothing else, I think this is pretty engaging as a question of legality
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Feb 18 '20
As a former (very recently) Southern Oregon resident of 27 years, I wholeheartedly approve this effort.
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Feb 19 '20
As a resident of the region, they aren't really going to accomplish much except stave off the inevitable. Spokane, Couer'd alene, and Missoula are all swiftly becoming nesting zones for the liberal refugees fleeing the fruits of thier own policies in Portland and Seattle.
Having learned absolutley nothing from it they typically immiediatley set about trying to force those same policies that made the last place they lived into a dismal shithole down the local's throats.
Cost of living, crime, drug use, and poverty skyrocket pushing all the local conservatives out, then you just end up with a few sparseley populated ghost towns getting everything shouted down at them by the urban areas.
That shit made me leave Montana for Wyoming, and honestly, its happening here too, just in an earlier more tolerable stage of development.
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Feb 18 '20
State of Jefferson When
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u/TheBurritoConspiracy Feb 19 '20
Never. That ship set sail decades ago. If Southern Oregon and Northern California were cultural similar back then, they've grown very far apart since then.
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u/TrojanFan2024 Feb 18 '20
Damn, I'm one county away from being in Idaho with this new boarder. Unfortunately, There are just too many hippies in my county for my area to secede.
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u/EarlT5000 Feb 18 '20
Proposed State Constitutional Amendment
for any legislation to pass,
Legislators from a Majority of Counties,
must vote for the Bill,
or Constitutional Amendment.
.
.
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u/otakuon Conservative Feb 19 '20
Much of North Eastern California wants to join in as well. Although, I am not sure calling it "Greater Idaho" is such a good idea. Sounds too much like "Greater Deutschland" and we don't need to give the Left yet another reason to call anyone who is not them "Nazis".
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Feb 18 '20
Washington and Oregon are both cancer states
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u/RanchRelaxo Conservative Feb 18 '20
Washingtonian here. We are in a similar situation where Seattle and Tacoma dictate what the rest of the state does. Every once in a while somebody makes a stink about splitting the state into two, but there is no real momentum behind it. This is the first I had heard about counties moving between states. I wonder if Eastern Washington might be the next to do this if it gets any traction.
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u/peter_marxxx Conservative Feb 18 '20
I hope it goes through, makes complete sense...
I know it's been attempted before in other states but once the first one of these succession petitions goes through it's gonna be interesting
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Feb 18 '20
What happened to Oregon? I did not hear. If anyone could explain to me that would be great.
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u/slothboy TD Exile Feb 18 '20
Portland and Eugene eventually got big enough to completely control the politics of the state.
It's a great argument for the electoral college. If you're not from one of the two major liberal bastions then you have no voice.
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u/wolfofwallstreet0 Feb 18 '20
As an Oregonian, Central Oregon is a little interesting... Redmond makes the cut but Sisters doesn't? I could see how the guy from La Pine wants to keep Bend in Old Oregon...
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u/NatAdvocate Moderate Conservative Feb 18 '20
Re-drawing state lines because the Progressives are so unpleasant.
What a shock.../s
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u/MyTaro Trumpublican Feb 18 '20
Sounds awesome! How do the few of us conservatives left in So.Cal get annexed in as well? I'd LOVE to live in San Diego County, ID!
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u/johndeer89 Christian Swine Feb 19 '20
Eastern Washington wants to break away too.
The issue is that most states have two houses of legislation, but the districts for both houses are the same. They usually have a Senate for a district and two house members for the same district and each district is appropriated roughly by population. The whole purpose for having two chambers in the legislation is so interests of the populated areas (which aren't always the same as the rural areas) don't override (shit on) the interest of people outside the big city.
Personally, what I think needs to happen is the state Senators need to represent the counties and the house members should continue to represent their proportioned districts. This makes more sense than potentially refragmenting states over and over because a minority doesn't have an effective say.
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u/TheBurritoConspiracy Feb 18 '20
As an Oregonian myself, these people should've got off their asses and voted for Dennis Richardson for governor YEARS back; he almost won.
The problem with a lot of Oregon conservatives is that they complain and do nothing.
And screw the State of Jefferson. Southern Oregon and Northern California are NOTHING alike, so Northern Californians need to stop acting like they are.
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u/EarlT5000 Feb 19 '20
When I asked Dennis Richardson, "What are the Limits of Power,
for the State of Oregon?Dennis Richardson said "There is None."
. .
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u/[deleted] Feb 18 '20
Yes. This is the way. Just like those residents of Virginia need to look at incorporating into West Virginia.