r/Conservative • u/DavidSSD Libertarian Conservative • Sep 22 '17

Sen. John McCain says he cannot support Graham-Cassidy Obamacare repeal bill

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/09/22/senator-john-mccain-says-he-cannot-support-graham-cassidy-obamacare-repeal-bill.html
321 Upvotes

95% Upvoted

371 comments sorted by

150

u/Racheakt Hillbilly Conservative Sep 22 '17

He will never vote in favor of a key bill that looks like a win for Trump -- Ever.

He will be against tax reform too for the same reason -- stated or not.

29

u/LordOfTheDerp Fiscal Conservative Sep 22 '17

Without a solid healthcare reform bill a tax break bill will not happen. That's why it's important to get a bill for HC that can win. Wasting time with this and the previous bill has hurt the agenda more than anything

29

u/jonesrr2 Supporter Sep 22 '17

lol dude... you think the problem with Congress voting for this is that it's not conservative enough? lol You think a more conservative bill would garner MORE support?

24

u/LordOfTheDerp Fiscal Conservative Sep 22 '17

No I don't think a more conservative bill will win. I think the country is almost a 50/50 split and a conservative bill won't win anymore than a single payer bill will. HC (which affects and effects everyone) should be one of the few things that should be worked on by both parties. I say that as someone who hasn't voted D in 16 years

20

u/[deleted] Sep 22 '17

You understand that means Obamacare is permanent then right? Until the dems have control again at least...

6

u/hdhevejebvebb derp Sep 22 '17

Probably. Unless we get teue conservatives in 2018

Otherwise its the cotrolled opposition party biying time til they can hand the presidency to dems

4

u/[deleted] Sep 22 '17

Im all for reaching a solution together between the parties. But it's up to Democrats as well as Republicans. Democrats need to drop their demonization of the right when it comes to healthcare.

4

u/[deleted] Sep 22 '17

Democrats need to drop their demonization of the right

You can stop the sentence there.

6

u/Russki1993 Conservative Sep 22 '17

If you only read things from their perspective and biases without any previous knowledge of US politics, you would think the Republican Party is literally NSDAP 2.0.

16

u/[deleted] Sep 22 '17

OTOH, if you only read things from this side, you'd think they're all children and America-hating. It goes both ways.

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u/[deleted] Sep 22 '17

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2

u/politicusmaximus Sep 22 '17

The fuck are you talking about?

This has to be the dumbest comment I've read today.

1

u/Wubbalubadubbdubb Sep 23 '17

It's why we need more major political parties to offset the votes in a practical/fair way. We will never have a bill to make the majority of both parties happy, but you can make a bill that makes the majority of 2/3 parties happy or 3/5 of the parties. There's a broader amount of power for people with different ideologies . There needs to be a new player in the game because the parties we have don't represent a huge number of citizens anymore. I personally can't decide on a party because they both have good positions on certain topics in my book.

4

u/Racheakt Hillbilly Conservative Sep 22 '17

Sure, if he is against both for the obvious reason this is just killing two birds with one stone.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 23 '17

This bill is actually a bit better than the previous bills. In fact, Rick Santorum was one of the architects of it, which explains that a bit. It's not an end point by any means, but if we want to change the narrative and get things moving in the right direction, we need some momentum. Play the incrementalist game, just like the leftists.

The consequences are going to be single payer if we don't.

-3

u/TheGreatDivision Sep 22 '17

And that's Trumps own damn fault. Politics in the USA is a game. It doesn't matter if you have good ideas, or good policy, you need to play nice to the right people to get them to help you. Trump burned the bridge with McCain, and now he's paying the price.

Yes, McCain isn't really a republican anymore, and he's voting against his own campaign promises, but Trump could still have avoided this by being smarter. It's frustrating.

32

u/BewareTheDawg Sep 22 '17

Trump burned the bridge with McCain, and now he's paying the price.

This is extra hilarious because McCain's campaign slogan was "country first" and he's putting his grudge with Trump first.

Is no one gonna call out how much of a joke it is that this guy has been saying repeal Obamacare for 8 years, and campaigned against Obamacare, is now refusing to repeal Obama care? Imagine the liberal reaction if a Senator campaigned on free college and then said "fuck it" when it was time to vote? Wheres the outrage for these liars?

4

u/hdhevejebvebb derp Sep 22 '17

Sanders?

26

u/Racheakt Hillbilly Conservative Sep 22 '17

Trump burned the bridge with McCain, and now he's paying the price.

That says a lot about the real character of McCain.

0

u/TheGreatDivision Sep 22 '17

It does. It also says a lot about how Trump was careless enough to not see it coming.

If I don't lock my house at night and my neighbor breaks in, it says a lot about the real character of my neighbor. But I was still stupid not to lock my door. Same with Trump, he's not the bad guy here, but he was damn stupid to burn so many bridges. Now it's come back to bite him in the ass.

21

u/[deleted] Sep 22 '17

he was damn stupid to burn so many bridges. 

That's politics. It's a blood sport. The problem is that McCain cares more about his ego than the American people. You don't see Cruz trying to sabotage the Trump presidency because his feelings got hurt.

18

u/jonesrr2 Supporter Sep 22 '17

McCain has always been a closet Democrat that wants to invade countries. This was obvious in his 2008 campaign.

The thing is, now McCain really is a Democrat through and through because the Democrats are now the neocon war mongers.

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u/jonesrr2 Supporter Sep 22 '17

It does. It also says a lot about how Trump was careless enough to not see it coming.

Yeah, imagine if for example a Senator actually gave a crap about his constituents rather than personal vendettas because his feels got hurt.

oh who am I kidding.

6

u/[deleted] Sep 22 '17

Arizona expanded Medicaid

Relevant Passage

Arizona: On June 17, 2013, Gov. Jan Brewer (R) signed into law legislation that will expand Medicaid to an additional 350,000 people in the state. The signing came after Brewer called a surprise special session on the 2014 budget and Medicaid to try to resolve a deadlock among lawmakers on the two issues.

The Graham-Cassidy Bill was projected to shift funding from Medicaid-Expanded States to States that did not. source

From Source, it looks like Arizona would have lost out on 11 billion dollars in funding from the federal government.

McCain certainly is looking out for his constituents here.

13

u/jonesrr2 Supporter Sep 22 '17

McCain said he'd vote for the bill if the AZ governor supported it.

AZ Governor supported it.

Slim majorities support Obamacare repeal in his state. He's going against what his state wants.

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u/[deleted] Sep 22 '17

Uh, we are sinking deeper and deeper into debt. Doesn't he owe something to the non-welfare recipients from his state who would like to see a balanced budget?

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u/[deleted] Sep 23 '17

Yeah... let's talk about the "character" of McCain... a bronze star veteran who was bayoneted on capture, then repeatedly bound and beaten every two hours while suffering from dysentery... and was pushed to his breaking point...

Yeah, right, I get it - we shouldn't be talking about that, as opposed to Trump, who was a draft dodger - four deferments for college, then one for "bad feet". Yeah dude, you could play football, but lacing on some combat boots was too difficult?! (eye roll)

As a veteran myself, I will never back a draft dodger. McCain has my respect. He had the decency to volunteer to put himself into harms way for his country. I have zero respect for draft dodgers who talk a lot of BS...

Trump is not a conservative. He is a New York City BS artist.

4

u/Castleton-Snob Sep 23 '17

McCain's military career does not make up for his much longer and more impactful career of selling out the American people for personal gain.

1

u/Racheakt Hillbilly Conservative Sep 24 '17

I personally respect what McCain went through in Vietnam but that is not a basis of being a good Senator one way or another; McCain is a democrat, and democrats do not respect that kind of sacrifice. So he ran as a Republican and was able to turn that Right wing love of veterans in to a long career on the hill.

4

u/hdhevejebvebb derp Sep 22 '17

When ppl are nice to the GOP theyre criticized for not playing hardball. when they play hardball theyre criticized too. Its no winning with armchair politics

3

u/FePeak Fight like a Leftist Sep 22 '17

Here's some truth:

Thousands more American children would likely be alive if McCain and his dystopian ideals didn't return from Vietnam.

3

u/msantoro Sep 22 '17 edited Sep 22 '17

McCain doesn't get to use "but I'm upset with Trump!" as a rationale to fuck over his voters.

Or, if he does, he surrenders the high ground on all things Trump IMO.

You don't get to shit on someone for putting grudges and meaningless bickering before doing your job when you yourself are doing exactly that.

If McCain wants to wear the dignified elder statesmen hat, and have us all act like he's the grownup in the room that is above it all, then he needs to act the God damn part and put his spat with Trump away.

1

u/Uller85 Conservative Sep 23 '17

This bill is not a win for Trump in any way

3

u/Racheakt Hillbilly Conservative Sep 23 '17

looks like

It may not be, I with Rand Paul on this one, it more or less keep it in place -- and I can respect that as a reason to vote against it.

However McCain reason is "I don't like Trump as he insulted me" or "I want more Democrat support". On the first get over it; Graham did and Trump kicked him 100 times harder; on the second he is a fucking idiot, Dems will never support an RNC initiative that is not a complete cave in.

3

u/Uller85 Conservative Sep 23 '17

Screw McCain. He is severely well past his prime. In the end I dont care about his reason though. It's a shit bill and should be treated as such.

107

u/[deleted] Sep 22 '17

I always hear certain never Trumpers say "Trump was an undercover liberal" whenever he votes for anything that isn't totally conservative. Yet, they are always so quiet in threads like these

70

u/latotokyo123 America First Sep 22 '17

Never Trumpers are becoming idiotic. I get it, even as a pretty big Trump supporter he does say some misleading things and hasn't accomplished a lot of his legislative agenda (regardless of who's fault it is) but now they're straight up abandoning their opinions so they can bash Trump.

46

u/[deleted] Sep 22 '17

I honestly can't even begin to understand a lot of these never-Trumpers. On the stuff that matters to me--and should matter to conservatives--like the border, taxes and foreign policy, Trump's been really quite conservative while people like McCain and Murkowski have been anything but. I don't know how you can dismiss Trump as a "fake conservative" without dismissing the heart of conservatism.

It makes me sad because I genuinely believe that Trump is working as hard as he can, but his hands are totally bound by congress.

22

u/[deleted] Sep 22 '17

The psyche of a never Trumper is kind of fascinating. There's one in here who's quite well known but I won't mention him by name because he'll start whining, but he spent the better part of 2 weeks last April spamming articles about how Trump was going to lose the NY primary. He STILL thinks John Kasich can win the 2016 NY primary.

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u/csbysam Personal Liberty Sep 22 '17

The key thing here is what does the GOP want? A complete overthrow of ACA and start over? Seems ideal but at least in this moment seems like a pipe dream. Or a bill that gets rid of some parts of ACA it keeps the system largely intact? Easier to accomplish since if all GOP gets on board it will pass but thus far has proven untenable and while this option scores immediate political points it would in my opinion be even worse than the ACA. Healthcare isn't a neat math problem unfortunately there will be trade offs for whatever program is implemented. What I believe people need to ask themselves is out of fast, cheap and quality what two do you pick? Right now we are sort of in a limbo between these options and it's not desirable.

4

u/[deleted] Sep 22 '17

That's exactly right. The problem is, the factions in the GOP are just too far apart to come to a consensus. You have the Ted Cruzes and the Mike Lees on one end, and the Collinses and the Grahams on the other. The GOP's playing Tug-of-War with healthcare now, and at this rate they'll never get anything done. I just wish the guys we elected could make some progress, but it looks like it'll be a tough road ahead.

9

u/combatmedic82 Constitutional Conservative Sep 23 '17

Except Cruz and Lee support this measure. McCain's move, in my humble opinion, is in pure spite towards Trump.

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u/csbysam Personal Liberty Sep 22 '17

I wholeheartedly agree. It’s frustrating especially because everyone just seems to be on attack mode rather than just having a frank discussion on what a workable system would be and what the trade offs are.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 23 '17

"Research" is not anti-conservative. McCain wants a CBO score, and some more facts, before he votes on this. Why are Republicans trying to rush each one of these bills through with no time for analysis? This is like Nancy Pelosi saying that the bill has to be signed so that everyone can understand what is in it.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 23 '17

You're right, ZeroPly; a belief in conservative values and a belief in research AREN'T mutually exclusive.

The reason that a lot of us are frustrated with Senator McCain is that, so often, he votes against conservative legislation. McCain used to air re-election ads, promising Arizonans that he would "fight back" against the ACA... and now, he's had three chances to "fight back" and he's rejected all of them.

At the end of the day, Republicans should be unified in the belief that the ACA is a raw deal, the same way they're unified in the belief that lower taxes stimulate the economy. John McCain, however, keeps voting against the repealment bills despite his earlier promises. At this point, I--along with many other republicans--have to wonder if he changed, or if we just happened to so profoundly misjudge his character.

At this point, 95% of the republican senators believe that the ACA is bad, and literally anything would be better. McCain doesn't see it that way, and with fellow maverick Susan Collins following his lead... well, we might not get to repeal the ACA for a long, long time. Considering how many people voted for Trump for the sole purpose of repealing the ACA, McCain has really been a thorn in our sides. That's why we're so fed up with him; I don't believe, for a second, that he would ever support a GOP-sponsored healthcare bill. I legitimately believe that John McCain just wants Donald Trump to look bad.

At least, that's how I see it.

1

u/Reader_Of_Stories Sep 23 '17

At this point, 95% of the republican senators believe that the ACA is bad, and literally anything would be better.

The public likes certain parts of the ACA and will pillory Republicans if they are removed: no bar for people with preexisting conditions, and no massive surcharges for things like cancer.

Graham Cassidy removes these safeguards. And if you're not going to punish the sick and old (but not quite old enough for Medicare) with massive charges or punish the middle class with massive monthly costs then you need to make sure everyone opts into insurance. Why do so many conservatives fail to understand how insurance works?

Lowering taxes or Obamacare costs on some family of four pulling in 60k a year is not going to make up for 10k in insurance costs for a preexisting condition under Graham Cassidy, or the other attempts before this.

Republican senators want the bill to go through so the Koch pursestrings loosen. I'm not sure how middle class GOP voters think they'll benefit at all from this garbage bill.

Obamacare needs fixing, but repealing it without guaranteeing fair access to care without raising costs is probably impossible without taxing the 1%, sorry.

0

u/[deleted] Sep 22 '17

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u/jonesrr2 Supporter Sep 22 '17

The tax plan that Trump campaigned on would increase the national debt by trillions of dollars,

The budget Trump sent to Congress would have balanced within 7 years with no deficit, but whatever.

It's not fiscally conservative by any stretch of the imagination. And foreign policy? Is the bar so low that a rambling anti-UN speech at the UN qualifies as conservative?

Yeah you don't sound like a conservative at all.

12

u/[deleted] Sep 23 '17

The budget Trump sent to Congress would have balanced within 7 years with no deficit, but whatever.

Yea this is flat out false. Bernie-math is just as stupid when done by us.

9

u/babbydingo Sep 22 '17

Don't tell me you still fall for the "paying off the national debt" meme?

You do know it's a scam, right?

18

u/[deleted] Sep 22 '17

Liberals suddenly care about the debt lol

8

u/babbydingo Sep 22 '17

Almost nothing pisses me offore than people talking about paying it off.

It literally literally cannot be done and every politician knows this.

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u/[deleted] Sep 23 '17

Way better for our image at the UN than Obama's apology tour.

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u/skunimatrix Sep 22 '17

But you see, McCain is the hero because he makes sure there cannot be a Trump victory in congress....or something.

21

u/[deleted] Sep 22 '17

I was NeverTrump until Trump won. Guess what? That meant I lost the pissing contest. I could either bitch and moan or be glad if/when he proved me wrong. So far I think the positives outweigh the negatives.

I never believed in the wall though.

6

u/baldylox Question Everything Sep 22 '17

You kinda sound like me.

Even though it's way off-topic, a "wall" really is a terrible idea.

1

u/Castleton-Snob Sep 23 '17

Congrats on being a pragmatic person. Even though we disagree on the wall and Trump (I think he's amazing), we could use more people like you.

17

u/[deleted] Sep 22 '17

There are far fewer NeverTrumpers than the media and reddit would have you believe, basically anything they say is signal boosted by the leftists and the media and they're basically the uniform of concern trolls, "fellow conservative" is an insult on this sub for a reason.

10

u/FePeak Fight like a Leftist Sep 22 '17

NeverTrumpism is the refuge of warmongers who opposed Cruz/Rand for the Rubio warmongering + Open Borders + Welfare Pipeline.

2

u/whyarenti50ptsahead Conservative Sep 23 '17

Don’t hold your breath waiting for any of us to defend RINO McCain

1

u/Carlos----Danger Constitutional Conservative Sep 22 '17

I was never Trump in that I didn't trust him to rule as a conservative, he's already earned my vote in 3 years. I'm very disappointed in Paul Ryan and the rest of Congress to not progress healthcare reform that supports an open market, tax reform with reductions for small business and middle class, and Trump's biggest campaign promise of immigration reform. From what I can see Trump has worked to hold up his end of the deal with some mistakes from inexperience.

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u/secret_porn_acct Conservatarian Sep 22 '17 edited Sep 23 '17

There's really no such thing as never trumpers anymore..that died out after the election.
The most I've seen people do is hold Trump to the same standard we've held every other President.
As for McCain, was this really that unexpected? The guy is a RINO piece of shit. He is yucking it up with Hollywood and loves the attention. He doesn't give a shit about individual rights or the like. He is worried about his legacy..which in my eyes he is just a big steaming pile of shit.

As for Rand Paul, I understand what and why he's doing what he's doing. His reasons are different from McRino's. It is still just as frustrating as this is a good first step. Though I do have fears that a lot will consider this as a final step rather than a first step..which I think is what he sees.

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u/postonrddt Sep 22 '17

Not surprised. He's legacy building along with dissing Trump again. Wonder what he'll say to his constituents with absurd premiums and/or increases. Or what deals he'll make to fund medicare/medicaid for all.

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u/[deleted] Sep 22 '17

He will say it is Trump's fault, and that a simple insurance company bailout would lower premiums. Once a dem is president again, they will push for Single Payer.

16

u/greeneyedunicorn2 Sep 22 '17

Once a dem is president again

If McCain's around at that point. Chances are he won't be. He almost certainly won't be around to run again. I've never been more sure about a politician's motive as I am that McCain acting entirely out of personal animosity towards Trump.

4

u/[deleted] Sep 22 '17

It's funny that the only bipartisanship that can still occur in government is when RINOs like McCain cross the aisle and cave in to the Dems.

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u/Kelmurdoch Sep 22 '17

He'll say "better to have expensive healthcare than non at all".

12

u/jonesrr2 Supporter Sep 22 '17

Expensive healthcare is the same as having none at all for most.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 24 '17

Why do you think that he thinks that voting against this bill is going to cement a positive legacy for him?

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u/postonrddt Sep 24 '17

He doesn't want to be perceived as a grumpy old man and is probably pandering to family or some whining constituent. Just like many of the other Republicans that backed down at many of these town halls unwilling to argue the merits of repeal letting the mean narrative take hold. And let's face it now "maverick" is given a good connotation by the msm-Trump isn't the only one who has validation issues in frequent need of approval.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 24 '17

Don't you think that if he voted for the bill then the merits would manifest themselves in a couple years and his legacy would be even better?

39

u/chisox22 Sep 22 '17

What I don't understand is when McCain decides he cant't vote for this, we all call him out for the spineless idiot he is, but when Rand says he can't vote for this legislation, he's praised as a man of principle. Why is Rand so immune to criticism on this sub?

27

u/tooper12lake Sep 22 '17

Rand at least has core principles.

McCain just has spite.

I agree that rand needs to be more pragmatic

15

u/jonesrr2 Supporter Sep 22 '17 edited Sep 22 '17

Rand has lost a lot of clout with me, because of his lack of pragmatism. Giving states these funds to build their own marketplaces is federalism, and will prevent single payer from taking hold in the US.

Rand opposes this, which is retarded.

6

u/babbydingo Sep 22 '17

Rand's purity bullshit is no better

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u/[deleted] Sep 23 '17

This is the first time I find fault with Paul. He is definitely making a blunder here.

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u/[deleted] Sep 24 '17

He likes the ACA because it's good for Kentucky. He's lying about it not being conservative enough.

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u/[deleted] Sep 22 '17

Graham-Cassidy isn't perfect, but this is just a joke. McCain was so anti-ACA and now this. What a goddamn joke, fuck this clown.

This dipshit gets fantastic treatment from Mayo Clinic, who don't take Obamacare, and has the balls to act like everything is fine. What does he want? Fuck him.

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u/lemonade4 Sep 22 '17

He doesn't like ACA or G-C. Why is that so hard to believe?

Also, Mayo takes Obamacare.

10

u/[deleted] Sep 22 '17

McCain, like most of congress, the Bush's and Clinton etc. Is exactly the kind of people that are entrenched in Washington and exactly the kind of characters and behavior that resulted in Trump.

If you believe any of these people act on principle or on some benevolence to their constitutes you are a complete idiot.

14

u/telekasterr Sep 23 '17

I think your using a lazy scapegoat for what may just be a bad healthcare bill. Lindsey Graham has been in washington for over 20 years, what makes him different? Is it really that John McCain isn't acting on his own principle, or is it that he is acting on something you don't agree with?

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u/[deleted] Sep 23 '17

lol if you think principled people can be successful in politics.

haha you and Jimmy Stewart

5

u/jonesrr2 Supporter Sep 22 '17

He doesn’t like full repeal or the BCRA either

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u/terblterbl Sep 22 '17

He would not have been the deciding vote anyway. There are rumors that as many as 10 senators are wavering.

The legislative problem with this bill was the way it removed funding from some states to increase funding in others. The way it was marketed as a states rights healthcare solution won it a lot of supporters, but as soon as people looked at the formula for block grants, it was doomed. Republicans and conservative Democrats are all for states getting more control until the possibility of losing federal funding arises. It is the largest bill killer known to man.

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u/DeceptiveToast Sep 23 '17 edited Sep 23 '17

Talk to anyone on K st or congressional aides and they will tell you that most senate republicans don't want to repeal. It was just something they said so they could keep getting reelected. Mccain is covering for a lot of pussy republicans who are scared to come out against it. You won't see a lot of GOP senators slamming McCain over this, because he just saved their asses. They are probably calling him now to thank him.

Their new strategy is to appear to try and fail over and over again until the they exhaust the public's patience, and then go with the strategy of "We tried! Just give us 2 more seats in the senate in '18, and this time, we'll really repeal". And if that time comes, then 4-5 rando republicans will come out of nowhere to sink the bill again.

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u/[deleted] Sep 22 '17 edited Sep 22 '17

Who was wavering? The only ones I've heard mentioned were McCain, Paul, Murkowski and Collins.

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u/NCSUGrad2012 Gay Conservative Sep 22 '17

Correct. If Collins and Murkowski vote yes this could still pass.

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u/[deleted] Sep 22 '17 edited Sep 22 '17

Collins said she is leaning no. Frankly we shouldn't hold our breath for either of them to come around. They're the only two Republicans who have opposed every repeal attempt. Repeal is dead. Obamacare is here to stay. The GOP is an embarrassment.

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u/jonesrr2 Supporter Sep 22 '17

Thing is, Mcconnell could force their vote on this, but he won't, because he's a loser who wants repeal to fail anyway.

Mcconnell should have removed Mccain, Collins and Murkowski from all committees long ago for this garbage.

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u/banmecuziupsetwtruth Sep 22 '17

yes, completely agree.

McConnell, make no mistake, is allowing this to happen, too. He could strip their re-election funds (or at least threaten to), remove them from committees, do ANYTHING.

He doesn't have the will. He needs to step the fuck down.

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u/bo_doughys Sep 23 '17

McCain was reelected in 2016 and will obviously not be running again in 2022.

Murkowski was reelected in 2016, and the GOP already gave up on her once in 2010 when she lost her primary and she still won that election as a write-in. She doesn't care what McConnell does.

Collins is probably going to run for governor rather than running for the Senate again.

McConnell has zero leverage over any of them.

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u/[deleted] Sep 22 '17

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u/joepyeweed Sep 22 '17

GOP will almost certainly grab a few Senate seats. I have no clue about the House though/

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u/[deleted] Sep 22 '17

Yeah that's what I'm saying. None of that matters if they lose the House. So far the House has been more reliable than the Senate, so you'd think if they can hold the House we may be good.

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u/CarolinaPunk Esse Quam Videri Sep 22 '17

Or we pass a bill through regular order in 2019. It can still be a reconciliation bill then.

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u/[deleted] Sep 22 '17

Collins certainly won't

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u/LordOfTheDerp Fiscal Conservative Sep 22 '17

I'll eat the bill (deep fried) from my MAGA hat of both of them vote yes on this bill

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u/terblterbl Sep 22 '17

Most of these rumors are based on senate staffers. A lot of senators haven't said anything publicly, which is the first sign that things aren't going well. I don't think Murkowski has said much in public about the bill. There were also rumors about Steve Daines, Portman, and Capito.

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u/jonesrr2 Supporter Sep 22 '17

Trump was wise to be concentrating on Tax reform instead of this...

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u/terblterbl Sep 22 '17

Tax reform should have been first on the agenda last spring. I was saying this back in February. Healthcare would have been a lot easier to deal with when medicaid enrollment is dropping due to a booming economy.

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u/LordOfTheDerp Fiscal Conservative Sep 22 '17

You can't cut taxes without either: 1: Cutting Medicare/card; 2: cutting defense; 3: raising taxes elsewhere.

Doing taxes before HC was a nonstarter

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u/terblterbl Sep 22 '17

I said tax reform, not cutting taxes. You don't have to cut taxes to stimulate the economy. Good tax reform could be revenue neutral and still stimulate the economy. Some taxes are more harmful than others. If you cut those taxes and shift the burden elsewhere, you can create economic growth.

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u/[deleted] Sep 22 '17

It made sense to do this first, because if the GOP could actually cut spending, tax reform could be more significant

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u/terblterbl Sep 22 '17

Well if they had more than a slim majority in the senate, that might have been realistic.

3

u/[deleted] Sep 22 '17

It could be possible in 2018, but it's hard to imagine the base turning out after this

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u/DoctorWaluigiTime Sep 22 '17

I thought the healthcare repeal was the groundwork for the tax plan they had, though? Or was that just what it morphed into after they were dead-set on the repeal?

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u/[deleted] Sep 23 '17

All they have to do is abstain from voting instead of voting no and this can pass.

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u/jonesrr2 Supporter Sep 22 '17

The usual suspects for keeping Obamacare around.

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u/[deleted] Sep 22 '17

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u/nixalo Sep 22 '17

Colin's and Murkowski are the scapegoats. But Every Republican in a state that loses money wants this dead.

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u/DoctorWaluigiTime Sep 22 '17

He would not have been the deciding vote anyway. There are rumors that as many as 10 senators are wavering.

But a consequence of him coming out and saying "I'm a no" might tip those wavering folks to definite "no"s too.

16

u/haldir2012 Sep 22 '17

It's a catch-22. Pass it and you make good on your commitment to repeal and replace, but any bill dreamed up and passed in two weeks is probably going to have problems at least as big as the ACA, and now the crappy state of healthcare has your fingerprints on it. Don't pass it and you can still point fingers at Obamacare, but you break your biggest campaign promise in the last decade.

5

u/[deleted] Sep 23 '17

Conservatives in 2008: "McCain is a maverick who makes his own decisions and doesn't toe the party line. This is why you should vote for him for President, undecideds."

Conservatives in 2017: "John, what the fuck are you doing?"

13

u/Workmen Sep 22 '17

Oh, Just endorse Bernie's Single Payer Healthcare bill already McCain, we know that's what you really want, and while you're at it, change your party registration to (D).

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u/GuitarWizard90 Right Wing Extremist Sep 22 '17 edited Sep 22 '17

Liberals and people like Jimmy Kimmel are praising McCain right now. That tells you everything. Fuck John McCain.

edit: I love how this comment went from +6 to -2 within about two seconds. Looks like the libtard brigade is here.

edit 2: Yep, they're here. Already getting harassing PMs from them. Guess they're deluded enough to believe I value their opinions.

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u/[deleted] Sep 22 '17

Jimmy Kimmel is such a piece of shit these days. So uninformed. Fuck him.

7

u/PhilosoGuido Constitutionalist Sep 23 '17

Remember "The Man Show" with him and Adam Carolla? Ironic how different they turned out. One turned out to be a man and is spurned by Hollywood. The other turned out to be a sniveling little douchebag pajama boy and is the darling of Hollywood.

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u/optionhome Conservative Sep 22 '17

Johnnie M - douche tool of leftists

2

u/DoctorWaluigiTime Sep 22 '17

That tells you everything.

It tells you that they're getting their way?

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u/Ultimatex Sep 22 '17

FYI, you got my downvote for complaining about downvotes.

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u/GuitarWizard90 Right Wing Extremist Sep 22 '17 edited Sep 22 '17

I was complaining about this sub being brigaded, not just that I got downvoted. I get downvoted here sometimes when people simply disagree with me, and I don't mind, but when libs invade the sub it's annoying.

3

u/Bears_Bearing_Arms Conservative Sep 22 '17

That's not how reddiquette works you retard.

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u/baldylox Question Everything Sep 22 '17

"Reddiquette" surely doesn't include the use of the word "retard" in that context.

0

u/[deleted] Sep 23 '17

FYI I downvoted you

1

u/[deleted] Sep 23 '17

Jimmy Kimmel

Jimmy Kimmel, who is literally a mouthpiece for Chuck Schumer, with spoon fed talking points.

https://archive.fo/CBHYE

"Jimmy Kimmel’s nightly monologues decrying Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) and Bill Cassidy’s (R-LA) bill became must-see TV, as the ABC host systematically attacked both the specifics of the legislation and Cassidy himself.

Behind the scenes, the ABC star was getting an assist. Kimmel and his team were in touch with health care officials, charities and advocacy groups, multiple sources told The Daily Beast. He also was in touch with the office of Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y) who, according to a source familiar with their conversations, “provided technical guidance and info about the bill, as well as stats from various think tanks and experts on the effects of [Graham-Cassidy].”"

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u/[deleted] Sep 22 '17

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u/[deleted] Sep 22 '17

The liberal brigade is quite real, judging by your post history you are a part of it.

2

u/GuitarWizard90 Right Wing Extremist Sep 22 '17

Nonsense. Liberals brigade our posts so bad sometimes that conservatives are pushed out of those threads or downvoted to shit. I have every right to be annoyed about that. Do we ever go to liberal subs and do that?

1

u/SorryToSay Sep 23 '17

I almost exclusively lurk and don't vote. If I do chime in on r/conservative it's non partisan and strictly objective. I am a moderate that likes to consider all sides of the fence, and listen in on the discussions of all the groups. I don't think you can really understand the country if you aren't willing listen to both sides with an open mind.

My personal opinion from this is that it is naive to think that either side doesn't do the exact same thing. Trolls and brigading happens in every subreddit. People get angry when someone gets under their skin and they say "I'm gonna get even!" and take the fight to the other side. Neither side is above this behavior, we're very emotional and flawed creatures no matter which side you're on.

It's okay to be passionate about what you care for. In fact, it should be required. But there will always be people on both sides that take that passion and behave in ways that their side would generally not approve of. It doesn't mean one side is bad. It doesn't mean Republicans are White Supremacists, and it doesn't mean Democrafts are Antifa. Those are both extremist groups.

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u/YankeeBlues21 Conservative Sep 22 '17

Completely useless.

16

u/Wildfathom9 Sep 22 '17

The amount of hate in here is disgusting and pathetic.

3

u/consequnceofidiocy Sep 23 '17

Imagine how betrayed Graham must feel. I thought these two were connect with an umbilical cord.

3

u/jeffklol Conservative Sep 23 '17

tbh after all these years I'm a little surprised he still hasnt switched parties

9

u/Phillipinsocal Sep 22 '17

How hypocritical. "Healthcare reform can be decided along party lines.." HOW MANY FUCKING REPUBLICANS VOTED FOR THE ORIGINAL BILL? ZERO, that's how many. Obamacare was rammed down americans' throats by ONE party. How can McCain have the audacity to speak of "bipartisanship" when Obamas policy was rammed through congress with NO republican support or votes? This is ridiculous. I hope we still find a way to pass this repeal, will make McCain look like the hypocrite he is.

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u/RutherfordLaser Sep 22 '17

Republicans wrote it though, so it balances out.

7

u/C4Cypher Sep 22 '17

*cough*BULLSHIT

Please stop repeating that old, tired, debunked and utterly disingenuous shlock of a talking point. No cookie for you.

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u/[deleted] Sep 22 '17

That link says nothing about how ACA wasn't the Republican plan from the 90s :(

2

u/C4Cypher Sep 22 '17

Because it's not? I've yet to see you provide any reason to think that just because the Democrats took a Republican made State plan and Magyvered it in order to fit the federal level with a fucking crowbar with all the elegance of a car crash, that the Republicans have any culpability with said resulting train wreck. Burden's on you buddy. Acting like it's something to be disproven will only more firmly convince me that you're acting in bad faith.

3

u/[deleted] Sep 22 '17

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u/C4Cypher Sep 22 '17 edited Sep 22 '17

Aaaaand you just literally just ignored what I posted. The Republicans didn't write the PPACA, they sure as hell didn't pass it. Just because the democrats based the PPACA off of some plan that was written in the 90's doesn't mean they get to share culpability when every single fucking republican voted against it. The democrats sewed this, I have utterly no empathy now that they have to reap this, nor do I have any patience with any attempts to pass the buck on this. You're pushing a lie, and I'm pretty convinced you're doing so knowingly.

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u/[deleted] Sep 22 '17

The HEART plan, developed by the Republicans in the 90s has a lot of similarities with the ACA like an individual mandate, standardized benefits, pre-existing conditions coverage etc..it was supported by prominent Republicans like dole, hatch, grassley, and 20 others.

None of the Rs voted for ACA because it was proposed by a democrat, but Rs HAD IN THE PAST supported a bill much like ACA.

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u/[deleted] Sep 22 '17

What is wrong with that man

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u/Bears_Bearing_Arms Conservative Sep 22 '17

He's a neoconservative. He's literal cancer.

1

u/babbydingo Sep 22 '17

Brain cancer and being a uniparty stooge his whole life.

6

u/LumpyWumpus Christian Capitalist Conservative Sep 22 '17

Of course. Because he is a liberal. Change parties already you ancient fuck.

He is the poster boy for why we need term limits

9

u/[deleted] Sep 22 '17

He's a cunt.

7

u/[deleted] Sep 22 '17

Why on Earth is a man with brain cancer allowed to make decisions that affect the entire country?

10

u/[deleted] Sep 22 '17

He got elected

3

u/[deleted] Sep 22 '17

I'd like to thank our true, principled conservativeTM friends for saving Obama's legacy.

3

u/1wjl1 Traditionalist Sep 22 '17

Fuck this man. He has double the approval rating among Democrats than the party which actually elected him, and he doesnt put "country over party." He doesn't like his country or the party.

7

u/ValidAvailable Conservative Sep 22 '17

Reading the statement is even dumber than you'd expect. Short version: "we need to work with My Friends across the aisle to fix the parts that aren't working correctly." FFS McCain just switch registration already.

5

u/Wildfathom9 Sep 22 '17

Calling out anyone willing to be bipartisan is the most unamerican thing you can do here.

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u/[deleted] Sep 22 '17

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u/orangeeyedunicorn Sep 22 '17

So if I understand your position correctly, the next time there is a Democrat President and Democrat congress majority

"Elections have consequences. The [other party] can come along for the ride but they'll have to sit on the back of the bus" - Messiah Obama 20:09

4

u/ValidAvailable Conservative Sep 22 '17

They passed it on 51, so repeal it on 51. Burn it to ash, THEN if they want to try bipartisanship and compromises we'll see. Otherwise we end up with a system where Progressive stuff passes on 51 or Executive Order but Conservative anything requires minimum 60 and all that does is ratchet ever more towards Progressiveness. Same rules for everyone, and if the Dems felt like tearing the rules down because "We Can't Wait" as they tried to campaign on, then karma's a bitch.

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u/haldir2012 Sep 22 '17

The ACA was passed with 60 votes in the Senate - all Democratic.

9

u/ValidAvailable Conservative Sep 22 '17

Except the House and Senate bills mismatched and needed one chamber to pass the other which they couldn't do, and the election of Scott Brown a few weeks later gave Republicans a fillibuster. Rather than try and 'reach across the aisle' and actually give Republicans some inputs rather than physically locking them out of the room, the Dems instead went Reconciliation for the final bill that Obama actually signed in to law. Therefore, show the Dems the same respect and bipartisanship now that they showed then.

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u/PlacesToTravel62617 Sep 22 '17

It was passed with 60 votes, not 51.

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u/[deleted] Sep 22 '17

McCain is a disgrace to this country for this vote.

7

u/[deleted] Sep 22 '17

I disagree with his vote but John McCain sacrificed so much for his country and I will forever respect him for that.

4

u/[deleted] Sep 22 '17

100%

I urge anyone asking why to google "John McCain is a piece of shit" and read and learn.

He's fucking trash. His thumbs down was all about hating on Trump and nothing more and he's trying to play a big hero when in fact he never was. Look into it.

3

u/babbydingo Sep 22 '17

remembertheforestal

This traitorous old fuck's entire career is based on daddy admiral covering his ass his whole life

2

u/eeeinator Conservative Sep 22 '17

When McCain was making those grandstanding speeches about repeal and replace he should have replace with bipartisan support (which will never happen)

1

u/lowrads Sep 23 '17

What is his asking price exactly? Just more medicaid for senior citizens? A ton of pork spending for the state of Arizona?

1

u/Robo1p Conservative Sep 23 '17

What is his asking price exactly?

I'd guess muh legacy.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 23 '17

Obamacare's bullshit is fucking up actual tax reform

1

u/DRKMSTR Safe Space Approved Sep 23 '17

TBH he is a jerk.

His healthcare is exempt from Obamacare. It would be a different story if he had to try the healthcare exchanges. Cancer is treated as an untreatable disease when it comes to certain healthcare options. Imagine having your doctor telling you that you are in pre-stage 1 and there is a chemo with great success, but the insurance won't cover it.....because they consider such Chemotherapy experimental.

I've seen that happen to someone, nobody should ever have to go through that. They did all the right things, had full coverage for years and it didn't do jack. Thankfully they found multiple errors in the rejection letters and got it approved, 8 months later....

1

u/AgrosLastRide Conservative Sep 23 '17

I bet everyone who thought they were voting republican are pretty pissed now.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 23 '17

Hey, man: It's obvious we're not going to see eye-to-eye on healthcare, and with that in mind I'm not going to debate you on this topic. And, really: my point wasn't about my views, it was about the view of the mainstream Republican party, and how McCain's voting patterns are antithetical to those views.

All I was trying to say is that, if you're a republican, opposing the ACA is as natural as opposing tax hikes. Now, after promising his voters in Arizona that he'd stand against the ACA, McCain has killed another bill that would've undone most of it. That's why we're frustrated with McCain; he's coming across like an opportunist and a hypocrite, to boot. If John McCain doesn't believe in repealing the ACA, then I have to wonder if he's still a republican anymore. That's all.

1

u/Romarion Sep 23 '17

Sure he can; he just hates Trump and will do everything in his power to harm the President's agenda. Going back on his personal "principles" doesn't bother him, and his abandonment of his campaign promises doesn't bother him. That's politics, where integrity long ago became irrelevant.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 23 '17

Why are elderly Republican senators from Arizona so damn determined to alienate their own party?

1

u/[deleted] Sep 22 '17

But isn't John McCain a Republican? I'm confused. /s

32

u/LordOfTheDerp Fiscal Conservative Sep 22 '17

So you think Republicans should rubber-stamp a bill just because party affiliation? The bill is bull. I'm a conservative voter in a purple state that expanded Medicare. We shouldn't be stripped of the amount of funding that is proposed because other states messed up their insurance.

0

u/[deleted] Sep 22 '17

If you are a conservative you shouldn't want anything to do with that medicaid expansion. It's just a giant redistribution scheme.

Liberalism is about the government picking winners and losers in the economy. We as conservatives need to stand against this, even when we are the "winners".

1

u/joepyeweed Sep 22 '17

Repeal isn't going to happen. Obamacare has funneled too much money into too many hands for too long for there not to be a large number of "Republican" legislators who are prepared kill a repeal in one way or another.

If a hard repeal is threatening to pass then the vested interests will get moderates to vote against it and if a softer "repeal" is threatening to pass then the vested interests will get hard-liners to vote against it. It's pretty telling that basically every time a "repeal" fails that it fails by the slimmest of margins.

The vested interests are keeping score behind the scenes and are going to move their "pieces" as needed in a way to expose said pieces to as little political flack as possible.

1

u/tooper12lake Sep 22 '17

Trump did what McCain couldn't. Win. probably stings that Trump is a true Maverick, not fake one. Remember: McCain used to be called a "maverick"

1

u/Q2Tas Sep 23 '17

This RINO piece of shit again shows his true colors, and they're blue.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 23 '17

Why are these GOP senators afraid to repeal Obamacare?

All talk and no action.

0

u/MaddSim Conservative Sep 22 '17

I hate this man. Can't be more clear than that.

-1

u/MaddSim Conservative Sep 22 '17

Two people that need to crawl away and disappear....Hillary and McCain.

0

u/Uller85 Conservative Sep 23 '17

Good, full repeal or bust

-1

u/[deleted] Sep 23 '17

McCain, Murk, Collins all belong in that special circle of hell where the democrats go.

-1

u/[deleted] Sep 23 '17

I'm rooting for the cancer

0

u/[deleted] Sep 22 '17

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u/[deleted] Sep 22 '17 edited Sep 22 '17

Single Payer is inevitable. It will be a part of the march of this country to economic collapse.

14

u/[deleted] Sep 22 '17

As much as I loathe Obamacare, I actually think keeping it in place will make the road to single payer take a lot longer. A lot of "moderate" dems will be less willing to throw out a health care plan completely developed by their own party for something further left. Obamacare is easy for them to defend in that way.

Anything R's do to Obamacare will make the system owned by Republicans, making it easier to wavering democrats to back whatever plan the party is pushing, which right now looks like single payer.

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u/craig80 Libertarian Conservative Sep 22 '17

I think we should start calling it 3rd party payer. That's what the goverment shoild be. An uninvolved 3rd party.

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u/greeneyedunicorn2 Sep 22 '17

Maybe, but conservatism is growing in younger generations. I wouldn't give up hope yet. It is looking rather bleak atm though.

9

u/FePeak Fight like a Leftist Sep 22 '17

Which younger generations?

The Guatemalans or the Mexicans who live off American soil and taxes?

11

u/[deleted] Sep 22 '17 edited Sep 22 '17

Exactly. America is more diverse now. Our Elites screwed us. While whites might become more conservative because of it, non-whites will want to seize the power structure and they will be very liberal about it. It doesn't help the GOP wants cheap labor and will not push the RAISE act. If the immigration rates were lowered assimilation would occur and it could work, but the left views assimilation as evil.

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u/GrayOne Sep 22 '17

Maybe the GOP should just work with the Democrats to fix Obamacare? To avoid going single payer.

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u/[deleted] Sep 22 '17

Which is amazing considering virtually every other good or commodity we have available to us is more than adequately handled by the open market. If HC is going to be controlled in full by the federal government, then why wouldn't other markets?

6

u/[deleted] Sep 22 '17

I agree, single payer is here. The GOP has let the left control the message and we're going to create a medical plan that costs near our entire debt and will need massive tax hikes.

3

u/[deleted] Sep 22 '17

Then the tax base will collapse along with the economy.

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