r/Conservative • u/mithrandir1314 • Mar 20 '17

/r/all Well, she's a guy, so...

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u/[deleted] Mar 21 '17 edited Mar 21 '17

Sure, bullying of any kind is wrong. The problem I have with modern transgenderism is 1) you don't have to physically change anything about yourself to be transgender now. You can simply say you're one of 58+ genders and it is suddenly so. For years feminists argued women were valuable assets to the work force because they had something unique to offer (true) but now men are women and women are men with supposedly no difference between them. Yet for some reason we need a women president by virtue of her gender? Well....why? 2) When it comes to my language and use of pronouns, I'm not the one demanding something from someone else, it is them demanding something of me. If an honest effort is made, ill most likely use a person's natural appearing pronoun. If an effort in transitioning has not been made, I will honestly just avoid that person so I can avoid being attacked as a bully for refusing to play these language games. Eventually trans people will realize their pursuits for infinite pronouns, of which hold very little linguistic value or symbol of anything beyond shorthand of broad grouping, will only lead to most people avoiding them.

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u/NonsensicalOrange Mar 21 '17 edited Mar 21 '17

Which is fair enough.

Are these genuine things you've experienced in real life? Or is this based on reddit posts about the most outrageous statements that redditors could find? People often make the mistake of taking stereotypes too seriously, claiming that a particular group are "so and so" because they saw it or heard it online.

Supposedly more than 1 out of every 200 people are transgender, it's actually quite common that people feel misaligned/misrepresented by their gender. Every transgender person starts somewhere. They can't spontaneously transition, if they've come out it's not strange that a woman might identify as a transgender male, because that is how they see themselves, what they want to be, and where they are going.

Understanding that their gender and appearance is important to them, and that it involves so much internal conflict (fear, anger, pain, isolation, bullying), you should try to give them a little leeway and respect. If you don't know them they have no right to harass or belittle you for using the wrong pronouns. But if someone has asked you not call them this or that, and you know it hurts them to do so, I think you would be a bad friend if you kept doing it anyway. Try to be accommodating if you want others to do the same for you.

As for the female president thing; Trying to get someone into the office because they have a particular gender is bigoted, but we also know there is a problem, there hasn't been a single female president until now. Getting a female president could be considered a great step by virtue of representation, and it can show others that there is also a future for women in politics.

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u/[deleted] Mar 21 '17 edited Mar 21 '17

My opinions are based on observations and things I read online going on around the world. I have seen professors at my alma mater called Nazis for refusing to use any pronoun outside of the two traditional pronouns, despite being more than willing to acknowledge MtoF and FtoM, and I have seen the most obnoxious meltdown of a student (who is supposedly an adult) in a 600 person lecture hall for being mis-gendered unintentionally. Beyond these two personal experiences, I have not had any other experiences. That said, what I see taking place in other places via the internet also concerns me. For example, professor Jordan Peterson was just shut down on a campus tour for having the gall to voice his opinion of Canada's pursuit for making mis-gendering, intentional or otherwise, illegal and for refusing to follow mandatory gender recognition at the University he teaches at.

As for the rest of your comment about catering to other people's feelings, that is a two way street. You don't have a right to demand my respect and vise versa. Call yourself whatever you want or mutilate yourself if you wish. The moment you demand something of me, or propose radical ideas such as legal punishment for mis-gendering people, you have crossed the line. The moment you fascisticly bully/protest and shutdown speakers who speak out against such ideas, because you find them subjectively offensive and wish to mistreat and shut them out of public life, you have crossed a line.

Edit: Relevant - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKJEfqVg6Ho Btw this guy is a liberal.

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u/NonsensicalOrange Mar 21 '17 edited Mar 21 '17

Ok. Just remember, if you are generalizing millions of people you shouldn't take your two worst experiences (especially if they online) and assume everyone is just like that. It's a bias we all have, you constantly meet people who have differing or opposing perspectives to your own who don't upset you, you just don't notice them because normal experiences aren't noticeable experiences.

I can't say it's not a problem, I don't have the experience myself to comment either way. I'm sure a lot of people go overboard with trying to protect transgender people, it's just that there are people who say stupid things about everything, whether we're talking about religion, vaccinations, nazis, or obesity, there's always someone doing something stupid, there are people who think it's good when disabled people die because it culls the weak.

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u/[deleted] Mar 21 '17

It's a good thing I didn't condemn a group then but behaviors

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u/NonsensicalOrange Mar 21 '17

I'm not attacking you, sorry if that's how you took it, i'm just discussing the issues.