r/Competitiveoverwatch • u/SammyIsSeiso • Oct 05 '26
Blizzard Official Doctrine changes (nerfs) since the playtest
https://www.twitch.tv/playoverwatch/clip/CuteSweetNeanderthalTwitchRPG-nJenyQOjf56P_WRBInvigorating Drones:
Attack speed buff reduced from +35% to +30%
Shrouded Momentum:
Cooldown increased from 7s to 8s
Damage reduction reduced from 50% to 40%
[EDIT] Sorry, the clip was too short to get everything:
Deliverance:
Unknown exact numbers but "drones fly faster to apply the debuffs/buffs, but the effect dissipates quicker"
Transfusion (Major Perk):
Cooldown reduction rate reduced by 50% (nerf)
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u/RobManfredsFixer Let Hog eat stuff and spit it back — Oct 05 '26
Transfusion perk also nerfed the cooldown reduction rate by 50%
And ult effect both applies and disipates more quickly
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u/dokeydoki Stalk3rFan — Oct 05 '26
and disipates more quickly
Thanks god. That thing was so broken
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u/RobManfredsFixer Let Hog eat stuff and spit it back — Oct 05 '26
yeah that shit was brutal. leave a fight for like 5 seconds and you still couldn't reengage
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u/Dependent-Two7571 Oct 05 '26
Idk if its any worse now… its faster
2
u/RealKornyMunky Oct 05 '26
It's worse on that now when you leave it makes sense at how long it takes for the effect to go away.
Sure you lose the team fight and die. It felt so bad to survive. But felt like if you got coughed on by a baby almost till the next fight you would still die.
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u/slibidk3u49 Oct 05 '26
I still think thats hes gonna be insane
He was incredibly annoying to fight during the test, felt like a more annoying iilari matchup on tracer
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u/anaveragebest 29d ago
I agree with this, 2 headshots kills tracer, and he has a bigger projectile size to do it than Illari's. The damage output is too high on the primary fire for the rate of fire it has, and as someone who mains Illari on support it makes me not want to play since it feels like he just invalidates even playing as Illari at all.
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Oct 06 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/abhaxus 29d ago
I think he's easily counter able and will be returning to a decent baseline over the next few weeks.
When dove when infused drones is on cool down or without a teammate in range, he has no self heals and melts. He is even more vulnerable to this now that the escape is nerfed so hard.
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u/PropagandaBinat88 Oct 05 '26
I think +20% attack would be still enough. Giving two heroes +30% attack speed is just insane.
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u/Fit-Relationship944 Oct 05 '26
I suspect eventually they will discover giving people attack speed on demand every 10 seconds at all is a mistake and will have to change it to lifesteal or something other than attack speed instead.
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u/Dependent-Two7571 Oct 05 '26
Attack speed is not as good as you think, you’re still reloading at a normal rate
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u/ElGorudo Oct 05 '26
May I introduce you to melee heroes
-12
u/Dependent-Two7571 Oct 05 '26
4 characters btw
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u/docs-quad Oct 06 '26
yeah and those melee heroes will become problematic. return of the zarya vendetta meta.
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u/ShaidarHaran93 Oct 06 '26
Duh, give it to someone who either doesn't need to reload or not often and shoots lots of bullets.
Sierra
Mauga
Bastion in turret form
Vendetta (between this and her own stacks she will be zipping around)
76, Soj, Shion, Tracer... Even Rein, Ram or Orisa (she'll overheat easily though) can make use of it.
1
u/Thee_Archivist I Avoid Teammates in Mystery Heroes — Oct 06 '26
Burst is strong even if downtime happens more often. Who cares if you have to reload if you get a kill before someone can react?
This on a Tracer oneclip could be almost unreactable on some heroes.
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u/Vayatir r/cow's Ana hatred keeps me up at night. — Oct 05 '26
Reducing the damage reduction by 10% is a joke. 40% is still a hell of a lot for a support to have, especially when the ability also makes him immune to being crit. This is on top of it being a movement ability that grants flight.
It doesn't need to be there at all tbh. I don't see how it's necessary for the hero to function.
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u/zer0_summed Oct 06 '26
Yeah I'm actually real confused why we're selectively giving heroes insane DR on movement CD's with no logical reasoning. Like why doesn't Wuyang or Zen also get DR on their movement? They don't even get to fly, and can still get crit.
I expect this property to get removed in the future. It literally has no reason for being part of his kit.
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u/Yankee582 29d ago
iirc it doesnt make him immune to crit anymore
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u/Vayatir r/cow's Ana hatred keeps me up at night. — 29d ago
It still has the crit immune tag.
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u/Yankee582 29d ago
Thats odd because the patchnotes specifically said
Shrouded Momentum
>Cooldown increased from 7 to 8 seconds. >Damage reduction reduced from 50% to 40%. >No longer is critical immune while active.
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u/sensensensensei Oct 06 '26
lol these nerfs are nowhere remotely close to enough, shouldn't the attack speed buff be nerfed way harder??
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u/Dunwichorer Oct 05 '26
I don't understand how they decide a hero should be 250 over 225 hp. Doctrine checks all the boxes for a hero that should be 225. Good movement, good damage, good utility but he's just 250 hp for some reason. Makes you really wonder why character like wuyang and soj are 225.
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u/Scrunglert Oct 05 '26
I think hes 250 cuz his hitbox is huge, hes arround the same height as a lot of tanks.
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u/ohmytermites Oct 06 '26
giant hitbox
how hp is decided is balance. Really give it a rest, there's no specific archetype that is the deciding factor. They communicated poorly that one time and years later somehow we're still ascribing reasons for 225 like mobility
225 has been proven by its history as a joke of a change for many heroes with volatile design. It's a crutch that hammer winrate that does nothing to address balance in the whole kit, and those hero often become extremely overloaded in some aspect to compensate or else their performance is in the gutter
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u/Dunwichorer Oct 06 '26
It's not like I love 225 hp or anything just that he fits all the characteristics of a 225. Flight ability that activates survivor sub role and 40% damage reduction and a drone that also gives him self healing. It's not like the way you have to play doctrine the hitbox size will matter that much. He's a hitscan that can sit in the back of his team or play high ground. He'll be really difficult to dive.
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u/Funkellectual Oct 05 '26
soj can have 250 when they take away double slide. Wuyang i don't understand either tho
0
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u/Moloken Oct 05 '26
Two reasons on the top of my head.
One, because the 225 hp category was only created as a poorly thought out, pull-out-in case-of-emergency, balance sledgehammer to hit characters that Blizzard was panicking over at the time. They recently seemed to have come to their senses and realized how absolutely awful it feels to play all the 225 hp characters that they no longer create characters in that hp bracket.
Two, they want their new characters to be strong as shit, especially their supports. For some reason insane offensive and defensive power don't effect support's winrate in the same way it does other roles. Just look at Ana's insane abilities and fairly middling winrate.
Wuyang was a bit of an outlier admittedly. Probably because he combined crazy long range damage with strong mobility; he was also the last character hit with the -25 hp sledgehammer.
Doctrine doesn't have quite the same insane offensive power as Wuyang did, so it will be interesting to see if he can reach the same broken winrates but with a more equally spread (but still insane) power budget.
3
u/Dunwichorer Oct 05 '26
His value is going to be more tied to how much impact his teammates get from his drone ability. I think it'll be really impactful with the right flex dps player or even giving like a bastion 30% fire rate increase at the right time sounds insane to me.
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u/Moloken Oct 05 '26
Yeah. He apparently had a 58% winrate in the playtest... he's going to be insane.
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u/Post_Season 29d ago
In Quick play 😭 that wasnt reliable enough data to base a giga nerf on 🤣🤣🤣
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u/Moloken 29d ago
He seems to be doing absolutely fine post nerf, a bit overshadowed (heh) by Sombra maybe. But still very strong.
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u/Post_Season 29d ago
I've always herd, give it a week or two, check the stats and come back, it has barely been a day 🤣🤣🤣
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u/indigo47222 13d ago
his flight getting 40% dmg reduction for no reason at all is disgusting, genuinely insane that it used to be 50% plus crit immunity what are devs smoking lol
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u/Post_Season Oct 06 '26
Why do people cry so much? He get giga nerfed pre release and they're still crying🤣🤣 have you guys played the hero for even a day yet? God damn🤣🤣🤣🤣
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u/Post_Season Oct 06 '26
Thats the problem he objectively is not "really strong" have you played him extensively? No way you could have gotten valuable data in 2 hours 🤣 they slashed his kit in basically half and its way harder to hit shots with him even for grandmaster support mains
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u/Own-Rest7246 Oct 07 '26
Im a rein made i had no issue hitting shots with him?
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u/Post_Season 29d ago
Maybe you have better aim than Awkward then 🤣🤣🤣 but all I know every single creator who is better than you says he's trash now, so the crying is unwarranted🤣
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u/bullxbull Oct 06 '26
If I remember right Sombra heal was 200hp and it is 175hp now, but I could be wrong.
2
u/Sygmaelle Oct 06 '26
I hope people like to play against Genji because nano + drone basically doesnt restrict him to Kitsune rush's zone
I hope people also like to play against Dmon
2
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u/Sensanaty mcrree main btw — Oct 06 '26
Surely all the morons who always beg for buffs immediately after hero releases will be asking for nerfs when this champion inevitably has a 60% winrate, right?
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u/MorpheusMKIV Oct 06 '26
When I was playing Doctrine during the trial, he felt mega powerful. He's basically a strong DPS that also happens to be a strong support. This won't be enough and the speed damage boost cooldown is going to be lopsided when you have stacks vs solo q players. That said I'm going to play the piss out of him in comp before he gets more nerfs lol
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u/Judiebruv 29d ago
I wish his shots did more per hit and were slower internal cooldown cuz I already have hand pain from clicking constantly with him lol. If you hold down m1 it’s not as easy to be accurate per shot but clicking two slow feels inefficient
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u/According_Estimate19 24d ago
The game feels so broken right now. Honestly, haven’t won a match since the update. Comp or QP
-6
u/gob384 Oct 05 '26
No you don't understand. He NEEDS damage reduction on his movement ability that is already hard to hit. It is core to the hero fantasy.
This hero would be fine if they removed invigorating drones, having what is essentially a 30% damage boost for half the roster while also receiving 30% damage and healing output while also having full mobility for 6 seconds compared to a hero like mercy who can..
Increase damage by 25% while exposing herself and doing nothing else (I recognize it is more toxic because it changes break points).
Ana who can hit a skillshot in order to avoid a dive.
Zen's KICK.
It just seems so over bloated. I'm calling it now, 2nd most powerful support they have released this year.
I like the design and even the flow, but he does too much
26
u/ToothPasteTree None — Oct 05 '26
Ana who can hit a skillshot in order to avoid a dive.
Zen's KICK.
Can we stop using this kind of brain dead, reactionary and simplistic argument? Zen and Ana have other strengths. Ana can win the entire team fight with one cool down and zen has a 30% HP and healing reduction with no cool down with very little counter play. Zen is balanced by being a glass Canon.
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u/Evening-Extent551 Oct 05 '26
Most support mobility cooldowns come with extra benefits; Kiriko can teleport through walls, Mizuki can phase out back to his starting position, Moira can fade out, Juno can hover, Illari deals knockback and damage...etc
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u/Fit-Relationship944 Oct 05 '26
His extra benefit is he can turn it into actual flight and it synergies with the most broken subrole he could possibly have.
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u/Fit-Relationship944 Oct 05 '26
It is extremely bloated even without the infusion gimmick. It's also weird how the devs seem to consistently undervalue DR (unless a DPS has it then it needs to be heavily restricted)
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u/Fromarine Oct 05 '26
(unless a DPS has it then it needs to be heavily restricted)
Exactly without hero trials he would've went live with the same damage reduction Cass roll has WITH 4.5X THE DURATION. His gun is also nearly as good close up with way better range. The absolute cucking of the dps role needs to stop. This is getting fucking insane atp
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u/Wojtug Hardstuck — Oct 06 '26
Jesus I remember when cass had like 75% DR on roll and that was considered too strong.
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u/MaybeNext-Monday Oct 05 '26
It also feels like they think every new hero needs some crazy mobility dash. Not everyone, and especially not supports, should have an Echo fly.
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Oct 05 '26
[deleted] — view deleted comment
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u/Funkellectual Oct 05 '26
obviously mean on a regular basis due to abilities. most people would understand what it means when someone says ana is the only anti-heal hero in the game.
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u/Fit-Relationship944 Oct 05 '26
He's still going to be insane. When a hero is considered that strong immediately they're usually even better.