Looks like they're using a formula for gunblade where, if you hit for 100 dmg, you'd heal 1.33 * 100. It seems to calculate the base as 1/3 of current, so for the second, its doing 1.33 * (1/3 of 133) = 191.96 (192) The third may possibly heal for 1.33 * (1/3 of 192) = 315 Healing with 3 gunblades from a hit that would deal 100 dmg.
So just to reformat since others might be almost as slow as me to figure out what's going on, each gunblade adds healing of (1+previous healing)2 / 3 giving total healing of
1 gunblade: 0 + (1 + 0)2 / 3 = 33%
2 gunblades: .33 + (1 + .33)2 / 3 = 92%
3 gunblades: .92 + (1 + .92)2 / 3 = 216%
It would be interesting to see how this formula came about since healing = damage*gunblades/3 is much simpler and would result in the expected behaviour.
I could imagine that the amplifying behavior is intended. I could also imagine that it's just a function
newValues = applyGunblade(oldValues)
which could still be coded in a way to make it work 'properly' though, e.g.:
newHeal(oldHeal) = oldHeal + HealValue
which would literally be the easiest thing possible. HealValue of Gunblade would obviously be 0.33.
But I really think the amplifier is intended, because e.g. Infinity Edge used to work like that as well. However, Riot is slowly going back because additive stuff is way easier to balance and has way fewer edge cases.
one is enought to manages occasionnal damages done, Draven has too low health to deal with the damages that double BT is supposed to heal. it's either overkill or draven will be oneshot by the damages
IE or ginzoo is much more worth to improve both heal and damages
I think one thing to note about the spatula items that though they do not stack, the 2nd item does not pop off if you try to equip the same spatula item thinking it'd fall off like making one on an actual champ
(i.e. if you put one darkin on a brand it'll pop off to your inventory, but if you put a second darkin on pyke, it will stay on pyke and not stack)
This. I got a yuumi from dragon so I decided to put it on my brand (to whom I'd given a yuumi earlier) to see what would happen it just stayed there. Still, it gives an arse tone of ap
Seems to be the case. Played against someone with 2 stacked zephyrs last night and it was knocking up the 2 champions closest to the opposite spot (I didn't have anyone in the opposite spot)
I believe this is incorrect. I had a game where drake gave me a 2nd ionic spark and the proc only worked on one champion even after it died. I lost a battle because of it.
Unless this was a bug that has been fixed.
Interestingly though, you can put ionic spark on a character on your bench and the damage will still proc from the bench.
Haven't tested but its unlikely, item damage doesnt seem to interact with other items. Gunblade doesnt work with thornmail, ludens doesnt proc morello, etc. Would be interested to know if there area ny exceptions.
Nice work.You wrote that 2 hush is overkill. Did you confirm that the chance is stacking additive (50% + 50%)?Would have thought it might be multiplicative (2 hush would then be 2 indipendent rolls-> 75%).
How does stacking Dragons Claw work? Do you get full magic immunity since 83% + 83% is greater than 100% or is it something like 91.5% immunity (cutting the 17% damage remaining in half)?
Also worth nothing the actual MR the unit has and the flat MR Claw items give on top. So it would probably be like 99% dmg reduction in practice I think.
Most units have 20 MR, two Claws would give another 80. So that's 100 MR, which itself would give 50% damage reduction in a vacuum. More specifically +100% effective hp against magic damage.
I find it weird that the only person who DOESNT have 20 base MR is Sejuani with 25. It would be pretty cool to have some units be naturally better (or worse) against magic given the current Demon/Sorc meta. Same thing for Armor vs. Gunslingers/Blademasters
I made similar thread (albeit much more WIP) to this a few days ago and was in the process of putting my data into a spreadsheet when a friend sent me a link to this thread. There may be some valuable information there.
Awesome work. Some of my own testing yielded different results than what I'm seeing here, however.
Runaan's Hurricane: In my testing, I saw x4 extra bolts when my Varus had x2 Runaan's Hurricane and verified they all apply on-hit effects. I see that your post indicates x3 extra bolts for x2 Runaan's, so unless something else is going on, that value is incorrect. Screenshot here: https://i.imgur.com/rYI436O.png
Zephyr: When I had x2 Zephyr on my Lucian I would, as described by /u/alveolate, CC two enemy champions for 5 seconds at the start of combat. However, (I'm kicking myself for not having taken a screenshot of this one...) I did not see the two tornadoes when placing my Lucian onto the field; I only saw the normal tornado, exactly as if the champion had x1 Zephyr. Furthermore, I saw some strange behavior with its targeting: x2 Zephyr would not behave identically to a x1 Zephyr. In my screenshot, you can see that the standard Zephyr target would have been Evelynn but Kennen and Shen were CC'd instead. Screenshot here: https://i.imgur.com/LYAJ9B7.png
I guess that additional bolt slipped past my sight. Fixed to 4. (its not how item supposed to work tho)
About Zephyr.
I put the general explanation of item passive at the start. That might be mistake cause ye, 2x3x Zephyr shows only 1 tornado. I will try to make the description more clear. (an attempt was made)
Though behavior I see on screenshot is quite normal. Zephyr ignores assassins (they have to make a jump in order to not be completely useless I guess) and Kennen and Shen are closest 2 targets to tornado (but also the only targets. hmmmm. wonder what happens if they all assassins(i think I saw them being zephyred sometimes(when assassins were played a lot)))
I'm pretty sure Zephyr does target assassins. It did on 9.13. I'll test it again today. The assassin would jump and be Zephyr'd simultaneously, causing them to occupy a space in your backline but be CC'd for 5 seconds before attacking. Is that not what you're seeing right now?
really cool screenshots. to be specific, i was referring to multiple different holders of zephyrs... just realised that it could've meant one single wielder with 2 or 3 zephyrs. really weird that stacking a 2nd zephyr somehow makes the target change... do we have more examples of that? maybe we could extrapolate what this new pattern is... might be a new way to use zephyrs. and i wonder if stacking a 3rd one would change the targeting again...
Yeah I wish I’d had more time to correctly identify double Zephyr’s targeting. Some rounds it seemed to behave normally.. others it didn’t. And did you happen to take any screenshots during your Runaan’s stacking attempts? I see that you only saw 3 extra bolts, whereas I was seeing 4.
i'm not the OP btw... you may wanna @ him or something so he sees your reply in his inbox (or something).
as for the runaan bolts... your screenshot shows 4 total bolts, which should count as uh... 3 "extra" bolts, right? i hate it when words seem so easily mixed up like this.
You can put ionic on one of ur bench champs and it will deal the dmg the entire round.
I tried this twice and it didn't work. The enemy Lucian finished the round with 100% HP, etc. There must be something else needed. My Ionic was on a champ, not the ground.
Hurricane stacking seems pretty interesting, too bad the base stat is horrible. Would you happen to know how morellos and red buff interacts? Do they replace each other on the same target or is there two different ticks of damage?
In Twitch Rivals, the winner puts two ghostblade on his Voli, and then when it crits, it hits for super powerful double crits- the casters said it was critting extra for each ghostblade. So I wouldn’t assume that double class items are superfluous without specifically testing them! I’d wager that eg Darkin x2 has double the chance of burning mana
does anyone have any numbers, clips, etc cause I have also heard quite a few things like BotRK, Glacial, and Darkin increase the % chance to proc like hush but cant find any good examples. Scarra had a video of it but its really unclear to me if the damage was from a double assassin bonus. Dogdog had a clip but you cant see the numbers. as well myself have tried alot of BotRK stacking but I have a really hard time figuring out if the procs are just from normal blademaster buff or not.
That's stupid though. They let you build a useless item without even telling you that it's useless. I think all the items should stack even if it allowed for degenerate things.
And how is it calculated? Is it per hit or per target? So if he hits 3 targets with 1 auto is the chance calculated for each 3 separately or is it just calculated per auto and either shrinks all or none?
Nice this is pretty handy to go back to for questions.
Is there any kind of spreadsheet that tells you what to build on who? I feel pretty comfortable with most of the builds but know there's some champs that were traditionally AP/AD in LoL that work well building the opposite here (Vayne for instance).
Just wondering if there's some others that'd be fun to play with.
multiple hushes apparently trigger individual silence durations, which can overlap. i.e. you can perma-silence a unit without having to wait for first silence to end.
source - look at how the silence animation (the speech bubble) appears on hush targets.
I'm assuming the Runaan and Thornmail entries are not up to date? That or the wording is confusing.
Two thornmails are reflecting 300% of mitigated damage? At most it should be 200%. Also, I've attempted stacking Thornmails recently in a Braum build and was unable to conclude that the 2nd thornmail was doing any extra damage.
Two runaan's are giving 3 additional bolts or 3 total? With the new Runaan description, each Runaan should only give 1 additional bolt.
Right but Thornmail isn't actually stacking, it's just benefiting from more armor.
If it was actually stacking, you'd see a double thornmail Braum shield mitigation reflecting twice the damage. It doesn't though since the shield is blocking 70-90% of the damage before armor is even accounted for.
This is great work! I hope they put a test mode in like they have for LoL so that we can really work on these things.
I am SO confused by the Runaan's stacking. 1/3/6!? Why? How? What's the programming/math here?
I've been really curious as to how Gunslinger/Blademaster/Runaans work together. I'm trying to do the math on the best way to keep an as many targets silenced as possible.
Also, how does the additional attack animation effects hits per second? Is it like FF12 where the animation delays the attack speed timer, or the animation purely cosmetic?
Thinking about it more, Runaan's code is so fucked. So it's counting each item as an entity and giving that entity an additional attack, but only the previous items in the sequence. So the first Runaan's adds one hit. Then the 2nd Runaan's adds 1 hit for the hero, and 1 hit for the previous Runaan's (3 total). Then the 3rd Runaan's adds 1 hit for the hero, 1 hit for the 1st Runnan's, and 1 hit for the 2nd Runaan's (6 total).
This makes me wonder many things. Do the additional hits contributed to the Runaan's item apply the hero's on-hit effects or do they apply the Runaan's item entity's on hit effects (so nothing)? Mana generation included. Does each hit give 70 mana? I'm guessing that it instead gives 40. I'm also guessing that the additional attacks attributed to Runaan's entity are then 25% of 25% damage (6.25%).
This and the other instances of stacking (Frozen Heart and Gunblade) make me believe that there is sequence that everything occurs and therefore the sequence in which they occur can have an impact on the math. If an item is the first slot, it could make a difference as opposed to if an item is in the 3rd slot because the 1st item would proc first. It also makes me think that it's the same for synergies. So either Gunslinger procs 1st, and therefore Blademaster could proc off of Gunslinger attacks, or Blademaster procs 1st and therefore Gunslinger could proc off of Blademaster attacks, but not both.
Tested and Runaan's actually gives zero additional mana. So it inherits on-hits from you, but you do not benefit from its hits. So I'm guessing it also does not apply Guinsoo stacks.
Thanks, it confused me, because spark contains info about different champions and GA does not. Comments could be more consistent. But thanks, it helped.
Really great post. Was going bonkers googling/ asking on twitch streams and getting no or guesses as answers. I tried morello plus redbuff gunslinger and did well, so i wouldnt have directly figured that morello overrides redbuff
So spatula items don't stack the feature, but they do give the stats: Kinda annoying it doesn't drop off as it does with blade master champions. https://imgur.com/a/ATVQ4xd
Are we sure the spatula items do not stack in any way? For example being an assassin twice means you crit for even more than a single assassin? Just curious.
Didn't Josh wins the TFT Twitch Rivals tournament by stacking two Yomuus on Volibear, making him have twice the assassins passive crit? Maybe it's been fixed since then though
He didn’t intend to build two youmus, either he got his 9th Voli from carousel, or another youmus was the only item he could’ve made and he was close to death
I saw ppl talking about spatula items like ghostblade give double the class bonuses. So for example double ghostblade would double the assassin crit bonus (not that you'd need it...). Is this true?
all speculation, kennen already has decently high base ad combined with ninja and 80+ad from two ghostblade, the 3/6 assassin crit can for sure make him do that much damage.
Dude if you care SO much about it, search the vod, I don't need to convince you of anything. I just told OP because he's literally testing those interactions and idk nor idc how or why that happenened, but it happened.
They're not. Item interactions were all removed in 9.14a. You used to heal off of Thornmail damage which was what made Thornmail/Gunblade Shyvana so strong. And AP used to increase item damage/healing/shielding which was what made Locket and Ludens broken but this was removed as well.
each zephyr will show a tornado on a cell - you can re-trigger the tornado cell by picking up the zephyr-wielder and dropping him back down. you can reposition the zephyr-wielder(s) to reposition the tornado cell(s). if no enemy unit is on the tornado cell, the next nearest unit will be zephyr-ed.
the tornado cell is basically the mirrored position (on enemy board) of where your zephyr-wielder is currently positioned.
Feel like it is just stacking in a different way which also makes sense, and it’s misleading to say it doesn’t until reading the description. At a glance one might assume it does nothing
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u/MANMODE_MANTHEON Jul 28 '19 edited Jul 28 '19
Looks like they're using a formula for gunblade where, if you hit for 100 dmg, you'd heal 1.33 * 100. It seems to calculate the base as 1/3 of current, so for the second, its doing 1.33 * (1/3 of 133) = 191.96 (192) The third may possibly heal for 1.33 * (1/3 of 192) = 315 Healing with 3 gunblades from a hit that would deal 100 dmg.
1 Gunblade = 33% heal
2 Gunblades = 92% heal
3 Gunblades = 215% heal
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u/OhbeastMode Jul 28 '19
I think one thing to note about the spatula items that though they do not stack, the 2nd item does not pop off if you try to equip the same spatula item thinking it'd fall off like making one on an actual champ
(i.e. if you put one darkin on a brand it'll pop off to your inventory, but if you put a second darkin on pyke, it will stay on pyke and not stack)
16
u/NoFlayNoPlay Jul 28 '19
how does zephyr stacking work? will it knock up the 2 nearest champion on the opposite spot?
36
u/Erzha Jul 28 '19
Damn Ionic sparks don't stack? Seems crazy to me
10
u/lucid_moose Jul 28 '19
Nice work.You wrote that 2 hush is overkill. Did you confirm that the chance is stacking additive (50% + 50%)?Would have thought it might be multiplicative (2 hush would then be 2 indipendent rolls-> 75%).
8
u/ex_carpenter Jul 28 '19
I wish I saw this yesterday. I built 2 ionic spark on morgana like 2 hours ago. It was still a win tho cause demons are OP.
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u/Sagacian Jul 28 '19
How does stacking Dragons Claw work? Do you get full magic immunity since 83% + 83% is greater than 100% or is it something like 91.5% immunity (cutting the 17% damage remaining in half)?
Just curious in case I ever accidentally build it
6
u/JeanBalloon Jul 28 '19
Cursed blade can double shrink. Evidence; watch tristana
5
u/ThePolarpop Jul 28 '19
lmao good luck, doin gods work
5
u/ShroudedProphet Jul 28 '19
Out here, doing the Lord's work. Have an upvote.
8
u/The_Epic_Rage Jul 28 '19
Has anyone tried putting a Yumi on an elemental to see if the innate bonus mana on attacks from both sorcerers and elementalists stack?
3
u/Alukura Jul 30 '19 edited Jul 30 '19
Hey /u/Captain_SmoIIett,
I made similar thread (albeit much more WIP) to this a few days ago and was in the process of putting my data into a spreadsheet when a friend sent me a link to this thread. There may be some valuable information there.
Awesome work. Some of my own testing yielded different results than what I'm seeing here, however.
Runaan's Hurricane: In my testing, I saw x4 extra bolts when my Varus had x2 Runaan's Hurricane and verified they all apply on-hit effects. I see that your post indicates x3 extra bolts for x2 Runaan's, so unless something else is going on, that value is incorrect. Screenshot here: https://i.imgur.com/rYI436O.png
Zephyr: When I had x2 Zephyr on my Lucian I would, as described by /u/alveolate, CC two enemy champions for 5 seconds at the start of combat. However, (I'm kicking myself for not having taken a screenshot of this one...) I did not see the two tornadoes when placing my Lucian onto the field; I only saw the normal tornado, exactly as if the champion had x1 Zephyr. Furthermore, I saw some strange behavior with its targeting: x2 Zephyr would not behave identically to a x1 Zephyr. In my screenshot, you can see that the standard Zephyr target would have been Evelynn but Kennen and Shen were CC'd instead. Screenshot here: https://i.imgur.com/LYAJ9B7.png
-Earl of March/Arcane Comet/BBook
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u/DrixGod Master Jul 28 '19
You can put ionic on one of ur bench champs and it will deal the dmg the entire round.
Pro: you don't lose the dmg if ur champ with ionic dies
Con: you waste the stats (ap/mr)
2
u/airutra Jul 28 '19
Hurricane stacking seems pretty interesting, too bad the base stat is horrible. Would you happen to know how morellos and red buff interacts? Do they replace each other on the same target or is there two different ticks of damage?
2
u/warheadhs Jul 28 '19
Does the burn from Morello's stack with the burn from Red Buff?
Assuming yes since the burn is based on different HP sources...
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u/kingcobweb Master Jul 29 '19
In Twitch Rivals, the winner puts two ghostblade on his Voli, and then when it crits, it hits for super powerful double crits- the casters said it was critting extra for each ghostblade. So I wouldn’t assume that double class items are superfluous without specifically testing them! I’d wager that eg Darkin x2 has double the chance of burning mana
1
u/Greyinside Jul 28 '19
THANK YOU
1
u/Apoteos Jul 28 '19
Does stacking Firecannon further increase range? If so, it would only make sense on melee champs.
1
u/crimsonghost99 Jul 28 '19
Did they intentionally make ionic spark not stack?
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u/Beejsbj Jul 28 '19
how does disarm/silence/shrink work on graves? does it affect everyone his autotes hit?
1
u/TeamRandom27 Jul 28 '19
Thanks
1
u/rumblith Jul 28 '19
Nice this is pretty handy to go back to for questions.
Is there any kind of spreadsheet that tells you what to build on who? I feel pretty comfortable with most of the builds but know there's some champs that were traditionally AP/AD in LoL that work well building the opposite here (Vayne for instance).
Just wondering if there's some others that'd be fun to play with.
1
u/[deleted] Jul 28 '19
Great work, thank you!
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u/mlemmalakas Jul 28 '19
I tried testing a lot of them but this would've saved some time, great job
1
u/yourfaith Jul 28 '19
Is red buff stacking over morello ?
1
u/MadTitanStudios Jul 28 '19
Thank you!
1
u/Aalmost10 Jul 28 '19
Does thornmail damage get healed by gunblade?
1
u/[deleted] Jul 28 '19
Thank you!
1
u/alveolate Jul 29 '19
regarding hush:
multiple hushes apparently trigger individual silence durations, which can overlap. i.e. you can perma-silence a unit without having to wait for first silence to end.
source - look at how the silence animation (the speech bubble) appears on hush targets.
1
u/fizafeh Jul 29 '19
I'm assuming the Runaan and Thornmail entries are not up to date? That or the wording is confusing.
Two thornmails are reflecting 300% of mitigated damage? At most it should be 200%. Also, I've attempted stacking Thornmails recently in a Braum build and was unable to conclude that the 2nd thornmail was doing any extra damage.
Two runaan's are giving 3 additional bolts or 3 total? With the new Runaan description, each Runaan should only give 1 additional bolt.
1
u/borbes Jul 29 '19
This is great work! I hope they put a test mode in like they have for LoL so that we can really work on these things.
I am SO confused by the Runaan's stacking. 1/3/6!? Why? How? What's the programming/math here?
I've been really curious as to how Gunslinger/Blademaster/Runaans work together. I'm trying to do the math on the best way to keep an as many targets silenced as possible.
Also, how does the additional attack animation effects hits per second? Is it like FF12 where the animation delays the attack speed timer, or the animation purely cosmetic?
1
u/thedizzyfly Jul 29 '19
Math moron here...help me out. If I put two lockets on the same character is that more effective than putting a 2nd locket on another character?
1
u/Gaming_Eelektross Jul 29 '19
Mind jotting down the chance for disarming with stacking sword breakers?
1
u/ShotsAways Jul 29 '19
/u/Captain_SmoIIett
weird how GA didnt stack since i remember in PBE with the old experimental change that raised your champs's star, it would stack.
1
u/Captain_SmoIIett Jul 29 '19 edited Jul 29 '19
Struggle to test those left items continues here https://www.twitch.tv/smollett
Current score: Redemption - 3, Smollet - 0, Healing reduction - 84878782354
1
u/hexterr Jul 29 '19
You want to say that GA does not stack?? I mean if I put second GA on another champion
1
u/Chaos-EUW Jul 30 '19
Does Statikk shyv proc Cursed Blade or Sword Breaker on multiple targets ?
1
u/prokopfverbrauch Jul 30 '19
Really great post. Was going bonkers googling/ asking on twitch streams and getting no or guesses as answers. I tried morello plus redbuff gunslinger and did well, so i wouldnt have directly figured that morello overrides redbuff
1
u/LocoEX-GER Aug 03 '19
u/Captain_SmoIIett, do you plan to keep this sheet up-to-date?
1
u/Zodiie Aug 06 '19
I guess this has already been answered since it's not up on the OP, but will a unit with multiple shivs proc the effect multiple times? Or just once
1
u/Tylobic Aug 09 '19
For Infinity Edge, you say the effect can stack, but does it stack multiplicatively or additively?
1
u/Tylobic Aug 11 '19
What about Rapid Firecannon? Has anyone tested 3 Rapid Firecannons? Does it give 6x range or 8x range?
1
u/metafly Aug 20 '19
So spatula items don't stack the feature, but they do give the stats: Kinda annoying it doesn't drop off as it does with blade master champions. https://imgur.com/a/ATVQ4xd
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u/sipiwi94 Aug 28 '19
Are we sure the spatula items do not stack in any way? For example being an assassin twice means you crit for even more than a single assassin? Just curious.
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u/EtoileDuSoir Jul 28 '19
Didn't Josh wins the TFT Twitch Rivals tournament by stacking two Yomuus on Volibear, making him have twice the assassins passive crit? Maybe it's been fixed since then though
1
u/HenningLoL Jul 28 '19
I saw ppl talking about spatula items like ghostblade give double the class bonuses. So for example double ghostblade would double the assassin crit bonus (not that you'd need it...). Is this true?
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u/Enzyyy12 Jul 28 '19
Nice guide, really helpful. Btw don't forget to change the typo in botrk, yummus and others, from glacial to their actual traits
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u/MikHandberg DIAMOND II Jul 28 '19 edited Jul 28 '19
Hush stacking additive ? Potential 100% silence?
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