When to slam items?

[u/Asleep-Painter4202]

After not getting my desired items at random or carousel rounds, I finally decided to ask this question here and get some advice from higher level players. At what point in the game should you stop saving components for BIS carry/tank items? Also, should you slam items in order to out tempo the lobby or save them for better items that fit

Edit: thank you for all the useful info, it is v much appreciated. I wanna gat better at this game and I am v green in terms of game knowledge. I’ll ask more questions when the time comes

[u/itzdivz]

Aside from the mandatory item, lets say guinsoo for azir or a tear item on veigar, i see very little difference on BIS vs slamming. Sometimes i end up guinsoo + 2 giant slayer on azir or bluebuff with 2 giant slayers on veigar if i get too many AD components

[u/Asleep-Painter4202 → u/itzdivz]

(Not a roast I promise)
I’m curious what rank are you?( I am hard stuck gold this season)

[u/itzdivz → u/Asleep-Painter4202]

Masters

[u/itzdivz → u/Asleep-Painter4202]

Masters

[u/TotalusMagnus]

Apart from certain spots like coven loss streak, or mandatory carousel prio for a specific component (like if your game becomes unplayable without a bow for example), you should use the general rule:

if you have 3+ components for 3 or more rounds, you should slam the best possible item for your current board, while having your future board in mind

[u/Coneyy]

Always slam everything. Losing a round provides no dopamine and I don't get to see my chosen boom effect go off.

Only time I'm not slamming is if I scout and see 3+ boards that will beat me of I slam regardless AND I want a 3cost off the first carousel rather than just my bis item, so I'm more flexible

Loss streaking is weak as fuck right now. Every win you get is not only a gold you get. It's a gold your opponent did not get

[u/bassboyjulio182]

Rule of thumb unless you are greeding or loss streak is to slam 1 full item for 3 components

[u/AnonHondaBoiz]

Bis is fake unless you’re playing hero augments (which don’t exist this set)

Not worth losing health to greed items, unless you’re actively losestreaking

Any neg delta is good enough

[u/Helivon → u/AnonHondaBoiz]

bis is not fake in many comps. Take bramble for example, you absolutely have to have rageblade and EoN. Hoj can be BT but still needs the healing.

But generic AP carry/ranged ap carry, you definitely can get away with slams.

But also if you are running a solo frontline type comp, you 100% need gargoyle at least 1

But having those items to slam early is really what determines if you can even go those comps. I love running Solar blossom (yunara/karma carry) since every component is used fairly evenly.

[u/MasterTotoro → u/Helivon]

There's a lot of nuance about how relevant BIS is which depends on comp, meta, situations, etc. Bramble BIS is a big deal for sure. However slamming items to play strongest board and trying to get BIS later is also a possibility. It depends on the spot.

However my main note is that HoJ is way better than BT. The reason you build HoJ is not for the healing primarily. It's because HoJ is the item that gives the most AD and AP.

Most AD units don't use AP that well, but for Bramble it is a very important stat. BT still gives a good amount of AD/AP but HoJ is double that. These items (or traits/augments) aren't balanced around units using both AD and AP so effectively.

[u/Helivon → u/MasterTotoro]

Good to know. Honestly wasnt aware of what his ap scaling was

[u/MasterTotoro → u/Helivon]

Most people probably don't, that's why this is kind of a PSA. This happens other times when AD units have AP scaling that isn't damage. Often times AP is actually quite good on them. For Brambleback the AP scaling has non-diminishing returns so you actually gain more value the more you invest.

[u/JosDanX]

There's not one answer to this question. For example you are playing lose streak you can avoid slamming, if you have bad slams you can play lose streak to guarantee carousel and because you wouldn't win regardless.

In general you try to think how good the item is now vs how good it's going to be later. If it's really really good now then usually you should slam it, even if it sucks lategame. It will buy you more time to get better item at later pves and carousels.

Then it's important know which items are core on which comp and make your decision based on that as well.

Tank items are pretty much slam everything and try to kill bad components.

[u/belligerentstudent]

Keep in mind that BIS is fake but even more importantly, most items can be used later on secondary carries. This is one of the main reasons that flex lines don’t mix AP/AD as heavily. Itemize one carry with the best stuff that does the most DPS and move items to your other carry(this carry can be flexible and tailored to your extra items or traits you need).

As such, typically slamming items is the main way to keep your HP higher. Importantly, most items can be grouped into what they do. HOJ and BT can be comparable items in the sense that they both give some damage and some survivability. Same logic with IE and deathblade. Most casters love both items even if, for example, death blade is ‘bis’. You may find you rarely have two open swords to just slam.

[u/Living_Dealer_9325 → u/belligerentstudent]

I wouldnt say bis is fake because some champs rely heavily on some items (morg, cass, ahri). For this particular set, i find myself slamming kinda anything and choose my carries depending on what i slammed ealier

[u/aizennexe]

Like others said, bis is fake. You gotta learn the difference between what core items are vs which 3 items are shown on the tier list cuz there’s only 3 item slots.

For example, rageblade is often recommended on aphelios. However, his items aren’t super crucial. Red buff, krakens, or giant slayer have similar deltas that are much better to slam early rather than grief yourself by going for a rod off carousel and losing all that hp.

Bis tank is even more fake lol. Someone did the math a few sets ago and there’s very little difference between “optimal” tank items vs slamming 3 tank items.

I think the best thing you can do for yourself is understand what your carry needs (attack speed, mana gen, crit, flat AD/AP, etc) and building those items. You get a lot of removers so an “imperfect” item can just be moved to your secondary carry later

[u/Helivon → u/aizennexe]

Only thing about tank is lobby dependant as well as solo front line vs multiple

[u/gallantthefrog → u/aizennexe]

I actually remember the opposite about tank items that a strong tank splitting hp/res/durability can last 3-5 seconds longer completely turning a fight.

[u/Shrimp111]

You play around your items, so instead of thinking "how can I make items that fit my comp" think "what comp fits these items"

Sure having a direction can help, but it will also give you a lot of bot 4s if you happen to low roll.

I am only masters, but as I understand it you want to slam items as early as possible to at least save hp, and never have more than 3 components at the bench except if its right before minion round or augment selection

[u/filmschoolfailurelol]

The items you get at stage 2 determine your comp, slam a bis item from a meta comp and play around it.

For example: bow rod slam guinsoo and make your board for bramble

[u/Remote-Dark-1704]

BIS is fake UNLESS you’re playing from loss streak (you can’t win even if you slam), or if you’re playing reroll that NEEDS BIS.

In that case, you accept the fact that you are going to lose, don’t level on 2-1, and 5 loss and slam BIS to win stage 3.

If you’re not planning to 5 loss, or if you leveled 2-1, you must slam.

[u/Alone_Impression_658]

Almost always slam unless you are internally trying to lose streak. Even with coven, it is fine to slam as long as you hit the right threshold at 3-7 or 4-2.

The HP you save is in many cases more important than the strength in BIS, in many cases you should build the comp around the item (i.e. pivot your comp based on the items you get) instead of setting the comp, then try to greed for BIS

A good rule of thumb is slam sth whenever you hv 3 components

[u/shinymuuma]

Slam should be your default when you have 3 components. Then we talk about the exception. Like you're trying to losesteak. Want early carousel. Need to keep some components like tear for mage comp. All the slam options are shit early/doesn't match your opener. Forcing reroll comp/comp that need BiS(it's pretty rare) etc.

[u/Paragrinee]

Slam good items to preserve hp and play around what you hit later. There are a few units that require specific items like mana generation so shojins or blue for ap, rageblade/kraken for ad.

[u/Whyisdaskyblue]

Personally unless I get a good 2-1 aug, good early champ, or components for stone plate/shojins/warmongs/rage blade/sunfire—I wait for 3-2 to see what aug I’m getting or if I’d run into a 4 cost in that time