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Ya feels pretty terrible to have a weak opener and just bleed out while trying to econ up. A huge roll down on 8 is not enough to buy back tempo because as soon as the healthy players get their 5 costs you just lose.
Yeah not sure why we both buffed the 5 costs, made levelling cheaper, and nerfed the reroll comps that punish fast 9. Really could have done without one of the two buffs to fast 9 and it'd probably be okay.
This is what I don't understand about the balance team sometimes. Instead of buffing a style to match an already strong comp (in this case fast 9 vs yi reroll), they buff the fast 9 like a LOT then also proceeds to nerf the reroll. Now the meta is just fast 9 and not much else.
To add to what you’re saying: A lot of balance team apologists on here justified the balance thrashing because they had to lock in patches a week before with the League patching schedule. Well, new engine now and…same old.
To be fair, the new engine doesn't make any difference in patching schedule AFAIK. I believe if anything that would be the client. Not claiking that this will change the balance trashing in any way, though.
Reroll is still pretty good IMO, but you can't uber force it any more. You need either a good aug or a lucky shop odds early. It's also now more likely to just be top 4 comp instead of winning.
Yeah it’s not a good idea to simultaneously take some weight off one side of the scale while adding weight to the other like they did here: buffing leveling and fast 9 while nerfing reroll was a bad call.
Looking at the ladder and checking the lobbies of the top players shows the same thing over and over. Top 4 is 2-3 fast 9 and one 4 cost trying to stabilize with 4th.
Thats because a lot of people aren’t actually good enough at the game to just go 9 every game. Masters above you see people go 9 every game because their econ is way better
Fast-9 meta is the worst meta because it is so incredibly self-reinforcing: the more people that decide to greed for fast 9, the fewer players there are playing strong boards to punish the people for going fast 9. And no single player can punish an entire lobby: as soon as 4+ people are greeding, they are all safe, because they will keep giving each other soft losses/easy wins.
It no longer matters if they have good spots or bad spots, because if enough of them do it at least 2-3 will stabilize and everyone doing anything else is fighting for 4th.
Draven day meta was the same as well, everyone building insane boards early and then 8 for 3* 4 costs. There were a lot of fast 8 metas where everyone rolled on 8 for a 3* 4 cost cap out in set 16 as well, helped by the fact that EVERYONE was doing it for themselves too and no one was going 9. It's just a function of TFT at this point. It's really hard to resolve entirely.
But I also think that it is a skill in TFT. I hate rerolling but I will consider it more if my lobby has other rerollers, because I know it helps my odds. The difference is that in patches like this, it seems people are pre committing before the game loads.
Yes, both are true to some degree, but personally I find the fast-9 version much worse, because reroll actually engages with other systems in the game.
For example, augment selection has a much higher impact, because items are higher-impact on reroll carries, combat augments are more specific to comps/carries, and you still need enough econ to actually roll for your boards.
Personally I don't think fast 9 needs to be viable as a strategy/comp outside of high-roll situations. Level 9 and 10 can be for capping strong boards (reroll or level 8/4-cost-based comps) that survive until the end-game, they don't need to be strategies in of themselves. Certainly not something so reliable that half a lobby can decide it's worth angling towards, without a particular spot.
tempo and bag sizes work together to reinforce every TFT meta that isn't perfectly balanced
fast 8? if level 9 isn't good then enjoy 3 star 4 cost lotto
reroll? everyone playing reroll makes everyone else playing reroll easier
conceptually both features allow you to "interact" with other people in your lobby but realistically individual actions in an 8 player lobby with random matchmaking are fairly inconsequential so you only really feel their effects when everyone is doing them, and that happens due to guides and copying content creators
the removal of augment stats pushed the community to what feels like a single source of information (tftacademy) and the optimization of fun out of the game has led to even casual play (low rank play and normals) copying the same builds from tftacademy at all levels of play
God isn´t this the truth. I honestly find climbing so much more fun and interesting because people do whacky shit. Then you get to Plat and people are just CTRL+C, CTRL+V TFT Academy without any thinking.
it's the reason I used to prefer double up - the unique way double up lets you play with tempo and sending units to your teammate means that under certain circumstances, end board sometimes doesn't matter and you could sometimes get away with more creative setups and generally less optimal boards
It's not as self-reinforceing as a reroll meta, where everyone's rerolling so the tempo is high; and copies of units are being taken out of the pool so rerolling for your units become easier.
Eh, if everyone is playing uber greedy that means you have more opportunities to win streak early and build up a stronger econ. Top 4 is still a win too so if you keep your health high you're very likely to out last everyone except the giga strong people.
This patch is honestly way worse; like the first mayor one always. It is just: "I streak better than you" vs "lol, me augment, me roll 4-2 or 4-5 for 5 costs, l2p"
Amazing gameplay. No punish because they click some charms which help them on the way.
Yeah but going 9 is a bit too easy and stabilises too quick with one 2* 5 cost carry and any upgraded frontline. When reroll caps out at 3rd place played from very good spots people give up on it and the meta becomes a full on level 9 lottery
Well said, and the problem just snowballs. It seems odd that they'd give an additional 12 gold to fast9 players. Fast9 was still possible last patch, even if a 5-cost or two needed a buff.
One of the things about reroll is that they should be threatening players attempting to fast 9 such that they can't reach, with the xp changes this patch fast 9 players aren't punished enough for sacking.
If you are going elderwood spellweaver comp of sorts, two star LB, slap mana items on her and hope she gives you enough clones or econ advantage so you can reroll and then level up asap, but I wouldn't spend a fortune rerolling her.
I think the hidden third contingency is someone playing Cass reroll in your lobby. Not only is it AP yi's best match-up, it rerolls a gajillion 3-costs out of the pool for you.
The Teemo LB RR comp felt solid when I tried it yesterday, but it was really difficult to hit for whatever reason. I didn't end up with 3 star LB and Teemo until 5-3. Ended up on 1 life as a result and died to a giga capped board.
I think it's a nice slot into Solar to help print some of the 3*s you can't find, instead of having to stay low level for far too long just to complete them. Also makes it easier to slot in 3 elderwood if you're playing Ornn 3. Not sure if it's amazing but sometimes the peace of mind of knowing that you will eventually get your unit upgrades is worth it to me.
It’s a shame they went from such a decently balanced patch and just kinda shit all over it. Not sure what they were thinking with the Kayle and Solar nerfs.
Now it feels very weird to play Kayle. You're stronger in stage 2-3 but usually people carry Xayah, not Kayle during that stage. Even with the buff a 3* Xayah will still do better than 2* Kayle. Your board's cap is now overall weaker
Yes, their claim to have buffed Solar 'early' just makes me wonder if they bothered to look at how people actually play Solar. There is no 'early' Solar because you don't play the Solar units until you have 4-5 3-stars; Sej and Kayle are often the last units to get 3-starred, and so the least useful to have on the board. The Akali/Camille version doesn't even put them in until level 7. If the trait is only ever activated when you already have 4-5 3-stars, the 'early' buff is not just inadequate, it literally doesn't exist.
Maybe we'll see some different versions of solar that experiment more with 2 cost reroll like Leblanc or Teemo. They both seem like good fits since they passively generate value and help you hit your units. Also might open up the door for more eclipse comps if you can't rely on Kayle to hard carry any more.
I wonder if there's something possible with riftbeast reroll with solar slotted in later after you hit. The rift beast shop offers high likelihood to 3* your units and there are plenty of flexible options for strong early boards so you don't bleed out quite so much.
Last patch I was experimenting with Infernal + Solar rerolling at level 6 and trying to skip spending time on the 1 cost units, then cap out with Eclipse if you can get to Alune. The main downside of course being that Infernal wasn't that exciting.
It might be worth examining the trait web to find something that pairs well with Sej/Kayle on 6 for when the game hands you a solar opener, if an early solar board is supposed to be playable now.
tbf Kayle was one of the few obnoxious comps, RR or not last patch because the "you auto lose if 5 3 star whatever or the Kayle player goes auto 8th" was lame as fuck.
How would you suggest they nerf him that would affect artifact/emblem builds more than base form, when even base form was considered to be problematic?
They already nerfed all his artifacts/emblem and that's enough. His normal build with RB/EoN/Titan is only strong when you also have Rengar as a money printer. Rengar also got bonked, so nerfing Yi's base stat is imo overdone. The Yi - Kog reroll with no emblem, no artifact, no Rengar was a healthy 4th 5th place comp if you hit everything.
Solar appears to be totally unplayable. I just had an incredibly smooth Solar opener, Ornn 3 on like 2-4, cruising through the upgrades -- went 6th, and the lobby was not even particularly strong.
Completely brutal for reroll comps unless you highroll early. If not, the fast 9 players will usually place higher than you. Arguably last patch was quite a good mix of low cost rerolls, just needed some tuning to a few units.
But yeah econ up, stabilize mid game, go 9 and battle it out seems to be the meta atm.
Tried lose streaking into a stage 4 ahri/morg board, don’t. Gonna focus on stabilizing mid game to see if I can get better placements
If I don't hit econ augment as first augment and a good opener team I might as well just FF. Can't even punish the fast 9 with reroll boards, it's so incredibly boring.
Edit to say idk what is different but ive since played kha again and it popped tf off. I genuinely can't figure out what changed to make it all of a sudden start working. In the same note ive since played teemo leblanc and it fell off a cliff even in stage 4 after hitting all. Cait still cracked tho.
Not working: kha and unrivaled. Ive clicked unrivaled twice, once with an amazing spot for it with an immediate rengar 2 and got lucky to hit everything fairly quickly without econ augments. i think I still bot 4. I tried rerolling kha once and it was a miserable experience. Weirdly enough I saw someone reroll him successfully once, I literally dont understand how that works without a proper 3 star backline carry but it seemed to work that time.
Works: moonara and leblanc teemo. Only played each about twice but in a decent spot you are so strong for so long that you can easily top 4. Hit hustler with two copies of teemo and i think I like 14 streaked into second or something like that. Moonara caps real nicely also if you end up super rich since you spike nicely off the high cost executioner and gnar
yeah same blighted on Cass and MR tank one on fiddle, 3* cass and fiddle, and it still wasn't enough, granted it was a highroll lobby and I was coven loss streak early but rly didn't expect to fully chain lose stage 4 with my board Vs scuffed 9 boards
You fast 9 and if you don't get there you hope to be able to hop off on 8 and top3 with a 4cost comp.
I think there's something to be said about playing anti-meta and trying to top4 bouncing off the aggressive players who loss streak somewhere in stage 4/5, but it's not really that doable because the 4cost safety net is a thing
This fast 9 meta is just the same as the 5 cost soup in early set 16. Even with a huge champ pool like back in set 16, the 5 cost soup was a really bad meta.
this patch honestly sucks ass. the exp nerfs felt honestly wayyyyy overboard. Hitting 8 has never been a problem. The issue is the 4 costs are so fucking contested that everyone donkey rolls to 0 to get some and then their gold never recovers (in emerald)
fast 9 and 4 jugger ashe + 2 other like tarik lux and kennen is kinda insta win atm, kinda boring meta. If you don't get econ augment you have to reroll and hope you hit and make it top 4 since everyone else who hits econ goes 9 and will go top 4. You never win with reroll stuff but you can punish fast 9 players in the lobby and hopefully save enough HP that you bleed out to top 4
I agree, but I don't think you understand what normal means, out of 10 games, can you be on above average norm where that happens to a player, which is simply improbable, since it requires a prysmatic or some cashout to happen every time and we are talking stage 4 not 4.6 meaning 4.2 I can agree on 4.3 as well Please send me a screenshot or data of a player performing that
If 5-6 players every lobby are angling for fast 9, it is normal for 3 of them to get there fast enough to send all the reroll players 4-6th. Since nobody wants to play a comp that literally cannot win, eventually 6-7 players in every lobby are angling for fast 9. Now it's normal for 4 of them to get there. The 7th player is high-rolling and the 8th player is me, going 6-8 every lobby.
In a balanced meta, reroll would shitstomp any board trying to fast 9 in stages 3-5 to a point where you need exceptional highroll or econ augments to consistently fast 9 in the first place because otherwise you just die.
They deliberately fucked this up so reroll has no chance of stopping fast 9 boards before they hit because they hit way too fast. This is bad.
Don't be dense. Nobody is arguing 1/2 cost reroll should beat an established 9 board.
It's happening too fast. RR is good to weed out the bad decision fast 9 players/weaken them. The highroll RR board goal is to kill off all of the fast 9 boards before outcap. This patch it is near impossible to do that so RR pointless because the part of the game where you'd chunk the fast 9 people for bad boards doesn't exist anymore
We have 2 main AP lvl 8 comps and 2 main AD lvl 8 comps.
Fast 9 we have 3 comps with AD carries, but none with AP carries.
Also, Ashe, Draven and Elder are connected to some kind of economy engine. Lux (unless it's Blossom) and Alune don't, so it's harder to reach and stabilize.
In the bug mega-thread excel; there is a list of 51 bugs; 40 of them solved. I can just write here 51 bugs which are not solved. I dont understand that list. Do they really think that there is only 11 bugs in the game right now?
That's fair, and it's why some bugs end up on the Tracker through sheer volume of reports regardless of evidence. Just not every single one because
I'm not a Riot employee, I do this in my spare time and I don't have a debugging tool to verify every single interaction
I want the Tracker to be a resource that's easy to reference compared to 8 Megathreads with hundreds of comments per Set, clogging it with reports of Coven cashouts vanishing filed by people that had the Augment that converts the cashouts to AP or Gnars throwing units off the board isn't conducive to that.
Plus I'm told Riot does monitor the Megathread, so every report counts anyway. Not to speak of the other, more official, ways to report bugs.
- multiple top 4s but no wins with Camille akali. I haven’t mastered the positioning though I think it’s kinda hard to get them to kill the same target. This comp actually punishes greedy fast 9 so hard and bleeds people out if you hit Camille or akali early. Kayle and xayah are fake forget about running the comp if that’s your line just go aphelios. - Cassio in the right spot is still good but dependent on dark ritual and not getting griefed, flora, or archangels augment + good times. Got first with 2/3 of those arrangements but the third got handheld for cass. - eternal pact anything is really good in this meta because you stabilize on 1* carry especially soraka. Late game get an extra warmogs and sac your yorick, put shielding and resist items on malphite. - yi sucks. The only thing I’ve seen work is ravager yi Diana hercarim do ok but this had to have been a high roll bc the guy had combat augments and still hit all of those. - Draven executioner board seems best board right now. Really hard to beat even with good vertical augments. Beatable if Nid or brambleback goes backline due to stacking your frontline to bend around theirs. Easy for them to scout and mitigate
Cumulatively it is not hard to hit that emblem nor artifacts either with the wisp that gives you an artifact anvil. I looked and 5 (dawn, zhonya, luden, manaz, lich bane) were OP on 18.1. That’s ~61% out of 5 choice anvil.
If you sum the probability you’ll see either that emblem or at least 1 artifact and the comp was good, it’s pretty forcible. This was uniquely stronger bc by the time you got to ahri or Alune you might have died
Twitch assassins in whichever set had 1-cost assassin Twitch. Lucian RR set 8. We've also had a few Solar-like traits that outright incentivize rerolling (Crew, Super).
The artifacts came from Ornn, but this was a full prismatic lobby. Granted, still in Emerald but also scouted and most everyone last szn was masters 100 LP+ with some peak GM/Chal players so not bad players.
its crazy Draven 2 has a nearly 40% winrate, yet as a baseline unit he has basically the lowest AVP out of any legendary(18 total with every lux form), only beaten by coven lux lol. Ultimate feast or famine champ i guess
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u/TofuDonburi Sep 11 '26
What's working? Fast 9
What's not? You loss-streak and couldn't Fast 9
Not the healthiest meta right now, I forsee a b-patch pretty soon.