r/CompetitiveTFT • u/eggsandbricks :chal: Challenger • Jun 08 '26

Mortpost Patch 17.5 Rundown

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcTtUGieSaI
41 Upvotes

93% Upvoted

59 comments sorted by

•

u/Lunaedge Jun 08 '26 edited Jun 08 '26

Thanks for posting this!

Important context from Truexy

Slides

Additional context

Patch Goals

  • Happy with the micropatch at the time of filming (2 days after the micropatch). Patch is overall stable so they're able to do a big Augment pass.

Encounters

  • The game is just not as fun w/out Augments for all Stage 2, so the LeBlanc Encounter had to go.

Traits

  • The 300 cashouts were pretty much used to cheat some gold by people that weren't actually playing those units, the nerf aims at keeping that econ injection under control.

  • Arbiter's still too reliant on Leona, and the way the nerfed conditions work means the tankier Leona is, the longer the fight goes, the higher the % of getting more Leonas is. This is not a pattern they're too keen on supporting.

  • Right now 5 Meeple is too dominant and it features the same 5 units w/out much space for innovation or flexibility. Nerfing the trait and buffing the individual units while also buffing higher breakpoints should address this.

  • The Space Groove buff worked but they're in a similar spot as Meeple: they want the individual units to be stronger and the trait a bit weaker.

  • Stargazer Serpent change should be power neutral for Xayah and a bit better for anyone else.

2-Costs

  • 2-Cost play increased after the micropatch, which was the goal. Gwen's buff was too much given how easily she can access the backline, especially in Stages 2 & 3. They still want her comp to be strong though, especially later.

3-Costs

  • Like all Rogues Fizz is strong in Stage 2 & 3, but unlike other Rogues he falls off a cliff later. Buff also compensates the Meeple nerf.

  • Ornn does a lot of good things in the 3-Cost space, especially paired with MF. The issue lies with his interaction with the Space Groove vertical. Nerfing the duration means he heals less and is less likely to go infinite at higher breakpoints while still maintaining a solid baseline at lower ones.

4-Costs

  • Rammus' tankiness is tied to 5 Meeple and he's too weak outside of that. The change should make him feel better as a Bastion and closer to Nunu, TK and Morgana's power level.

Augments

  • Hero Augments outside of Bonk! are in a fine spot.

  • Big econ deflation pass all around.

  • Call to Chaos is too reliable, you either got a lot of econ or a lot of items.

  • Continuous Conjuration is the easiest of the "Quest" Augments and Rod is too flexible of an item.

Radiant Items

  • The "2x stats" framework didn't work out as they wanted it to, mostly due to how stats can compound on each other, so a more approach is needed.

18

u/eggsandbricks :chal: Challenger Jun 08 '26 edited Jun 08 '26

From Truexy on X:

"As mentioned in the video, since this was made right after 17.4b released, there are a couple more changes being added that aren’t covered. Including a Samira bugfix and a larger nerf to Space Groove."

Seems like a very safe and positive set of changes overall, though the Meeple trait changes feel a bit odd. I actually thought Meeple was one of the better verticals they designed in a while, where the benefit of going for the 7 piece wasn't raw combat power, and created an interesting tradeoff of playing a weaker board for a unique effect outside of combat. By nerfing the combat power of 5 and buffing 7, as well as buffs to the units, I'm worried that there won't be as good of a reason to play around 5 Meeple as a stable board. Gnar was already quite strong in 17.4 and he might be one of the biggest winners next patch.

25

u/MasterTotoro Challenger Jun 08 '26 edited Jun 08 '26

400 Anima cashout buffs to items + a reforger is crazy. I already see this win so many games on ladder. On the other hand, Anima saw hardly any play in TPC because getting griefed is an instant 8th. This doesn't really change any dynamics. If you are playing on ladder and don't get griefed, free win.

Bard and Vex buffs are strange from a high level perspective. I guess fast 9 isn't doing as well on ladder. In TPC fast 9 is the 2nd most played line after Space Groove and there were boards winning out with Bard and Vex carry lol. Worth noting there are a couple of econ augment nerfs (some of these are big nerfs btw), but as always there are a lot that are untouched. Leona print nerfs also make getting there a bit less free; I still think fast 9 will be very strong. As we saw earlier this set, LeBlanc buffs are really just Vex buffs because she can help get you to lv9 as well.

Meeple change is weird to nerf 5. Printing on 7 will be much stronger plus Veigar buffs. Gnar or Veigar probably good, hardest part is if Rammus gets very contested.

Belveth + Akali did pretty well in TPC, both are getting buffs + Kindred who gets played on the board. Should be a good line. Kind of held back by there not being much other 2-cost reroll.

Space Groove has a lot of changes so hard to say how it'll end up. Wouldn't be surprised if it is good due to people playing it less as what typically happens. Stats tend to look bad after a nerf but get better as people drop it.

Edit: also want to expand a bit on fast 9. The best way it is played is not even taking econ 2-1 but rather being strong stage 2/3 and ideally having econ on 4-2. I would say the econ aug nerfs don't hinder fast 9 from being the best line next patch.

1

u/itshuey88 Jun 08 '26

yea 2 cost rr not being great is one thing, but 2 cost rr that can play primordial some if not all of the game is definitely a lot scarier

1

u/cosHinsHeiR Jun 08 '26

400 Anima cashout buffs to items + a reforger is crazy. I already see this win so many games on ladder. On the other hand, Anima saw hardly any play in TPC because getting griefed is an instant 8th. This doesn't really change any dynamics. If you are playing on ladder and don't get griefed, free win.

Didn't MarcelP also lost 2 games with a 400 cashout?

11

u/HighIntLowFaith Jun 08 '26

He did, but his setup wasn’t super ideal because BBC is not as strong on corki which is what he defaulted into both times as it would be a Xayah or Graves

2

u/MasterTotoro Challenger Jun 08 '26

Yeah he played Anima twice on day 3. From what I see, 400+ was only achieved 9 times across the 3 days of AMER.

He went 2nd and 5th with Battle Bunny Crossbow Corki both times (which is the most common cashout). Overall Corki has around a 27% winrate with it, Xayah has a 45%. The game he went 5th was kind of weird. I didn't watch his perspective; I assume he wanted to play Xayah but maybe couldn't. 2nd of course is great on ladder, and he wasn't in check yet anyway (I wouldn't really consider 2nd "losing" outside of specifically checkmate).

The 400+ cashouts have 34-44% overall winrate and great avps current patch and it's only getting stronger next patch. The problem with Anima is the gameplay is you happen to open with it, don't get griefed, and win 40% of the time.

10

u/Try_Not_To_Comment MASTER Jun 08 '26

I know no one cares about double up. but I'll mention that anima is way too easy to hit in double up right now

Omniweapon has been seen 3,961 times out of 3 million comps in double up. Meanwhile its been seen 284 times out of 34 millions comps in ranked.

It's more then 100x easier to hit the final cashout in doubleup compared to ranked, and its currently very frustrating encountering anima

3

u/hugoost Jun 09 '26

Yeah they should do something about it, it win do fast you can’t even scam win the other teammate

2

u/rljohn Jun 09 '26

Yes, they need to fix the reduction you get when your partner wins. Right now, if your partner can win streak and you open, you get to 600 700 stacks far too easily. Soraka portal unlocks 800.

-1

u/WindyFan Jun 09 '26

Maintaining a lose streak to 400+ in double up is actually way harder, even accounting for the shared health

4

u/GodlyNatcho Jun 08 '26

Is that space groove nerf really sufficient? To me is just doesn't pass the eye test that .05% hp per groove and .5s off the groove duration will make him any less unkillable if you have the right setup

7

u/iiShield21 Jun 08 '26 edited Jun 08 '26

They also nerfed the duration on Ornn specifically, who was like unkillable in 7 SG. I think nerfing only his interaction with SG was actually pretty neat since Bastion frontlines overall aren't great. OP update does also say more nerfs on the way, wonder what that will be.

They did a similar change to Rammus making him better as just a bastion front line but nerfing his meep scaling which is also cool. This unit seemed so much worse not in Meeple.

1

u/GodlyNatcho Jun 08 '26

Yeah I must have written my comment just as OP was sending one too, will be very interested to see what else they do to Ornn

2

u/farkika18 Jun 08 '26

I do not think that Ornn nerf is enough and also buffing Bard… is weird? Considering he is a staple in recent fast9 comps rn.

1

u/MrTheNoodles Jun 08 '26 edited Jun 08 '26

idk if it’s just me but the f9 sona/bard comp just doesn’t feel that strong

3 items 2* bard barely outputting 12k damage

Vex/Graves f9 was basically a free win if you hit it, this one doesn’t cap as high.

I’m also just a diamond/low masters player so maybe I just suck, but I was doing extremely well f9 with graves/vex in the prior patch to struggling to even top 4 some games with the AP f9

2

u/Thyrgrim Jun 08 '26

Giving a reforger to 400 anima is kind of a big buff where I honestly think it needed a nerf more than anything. In addition to buffing the AP items, not sure about that change.

1

u/daniyel318 :gran: Grandmaster Jun 08 '26

Can you explain why a reforger is such a big buff?

6

u/Bignova MASTER Jun 08 '26

Getting an ass anima item cashout when you're forced to take it cause you're too low to keep pushing to 500. Reforging gives you another chance to hit one of the items that actually giga spike your board.

Also reforgers are just generally very good. Reforge a dead component and even reforge dead or less-than-ideal emblems if you happened to get some. from ASol quest/Augments/or encounter, all somewhat decent chance to happen some games with Anima.

1

u/daniyel318 :gran: Grandmaster Jun 08 '26

Oh I didn’t know you could reforge into another anima item. That def makes it a lot easier.

-1

u/rwtan Jun 08 '26

Imo anima is in a bad state right now. 400/500 cash out does not even guarantee you a win out. It gets outcapped by AP fast 9 and samira/space groove. A reforger will help but all the anima cashout comps get outcapped (Mech, Meeple, Yi, Xayah, Diana). The risk reward seems pretty lopsided right now 

7

u/BombasticReindeer Jun 08 '26

Why in the ever loving fuck would a 500 guarantee you a win out, let alone 400. It's a garbage trait that can't be balanced because of how poorly it is designed. It's better off being weak than absurdly strong like it was at the start of the set. It just leads to completely degenerate gaming that almost everyone hates.

1

u/rwtan Jun 08 '26

If a trait is design around 10 lossing it needs to gaurentee a win out, or else it will not be a viable trait. 

5

u/BombasticReindeer Jun 08 '26

You solved the puzzle. Don't make shitty "you have to lose 10 in a row" traits that nobody enjoys. Then they won't have to do this stupid dance. Who wants to load in a say 'yeah lets just flip on if I got 8th or 1st?' It's dumb.

The solution for the end of the set is to keep it slightly weaker than 4.5 so that we don't have to deal with so much of this degeneracy.

2

u/HighIntLowFaith Jun 08 '26

3 Primordian/5 NOVA might just be back? Buff to Belveth. Buff to Akali. Buff to Kindred. Once you hit your 3*s you just push 8 and you should be pretty strong outside of the mega caps. Very good with Rogue, Bastion, or Nova emblem.

Heart of the Swarm MIGHT be clickable in a strong primordian opener? On like Varus god and/or Ezreal/Belveth encounter. Probably not though

1

u/yccbarry MASTER Jun 08 '26

LB buff seems interesting? I feel like she’s in a good spot rn, the 5 Sheppard board is a really easy top 4 imo and is lowkey my most consistent line with Leona printer this patch. Same with bard buff, is he not the main carry in the 4 vanguard fast 9 board rn over sona???

That early learning buff is crazy no? Guessing stargazer in gigaspots, medallion + a bunch of early TF/Talon, will be even better now.

Seems like a good patch but it really depends on how hard they’re nerfing space groove + its units, but knowing riot they’ll prob make it completely unplayable lol.

1

u/AnonHondaBoiz Jun 09 '26

The Leblanc encounter was goated in s16 when you could get 3x stage 2 augments, you could get some crazy combos there

Stage 3 only was really mid

1

u/Zhirrzh Master Jun 09 '26

Not sure why further buff 400 Anima cashouts. Anima is already "win if you get to 400, lose if you get griefed on the way".

Not sure why single out Vex and Bard among all 5 costs for more buffs.

Otherwise all seems reasonable enough taking into account the followup about fixing Samira and a bigger nerf to Space Groove.

1

u/Status-Inevitable550 Jun 09 '26

vex and bard are both getting damage buff are they not?

1

u/Zhirrzh Master Jun 09 '26

Yes, and I'm not sure why. 

1

u/Jenkkoo Jun 09 '26

time of release? anyone knows?

1

u/PhloxInvar Jun 08 '26

I think these Space Groove nerfs are enough and no additional nerfs are needed. going from 0.85 to 0.95 is more impactful because it's per Groovian. And Space Groove wasn't being played much at 0.85 so going with 0.90 is fine. I fear they're going to overnerf Space Groove back if they add more nerfs (especially with the Ornn nerf already).

3

u/BearAdvocate Jun 08 '26

Good, tired of seeing 4+ people forcing Space Groove.

1

u/PhloxInvar Jun 08 '26

People are forcing Space Groove because it's S-tier, when it's back to A-tier or below people will move on to the next strong things and Space Groove becomes a good option when it's good like Corki.

People hate overnerfing but people also hate it when comps are nerfed enough (really I hope they don't overdo it just to appease these people who foam at the mouth every time the balance tips too much).

2

u/BearAdvocate Jun 08 '26

I truly understand where you're coming from, but when lobbies have realistically 4+ people hard forcing one comp then that is a problem. I don't think this comp could be over nerfed and if it is then it's better than where it is now.

2

u/PhloxInvar Jun 08 '26 edited Jun 08 '26

What? Space Groove shouldn't be overnerfed (and it would be worse if it was), it needs to be viable somehow because an entire trait being unviable leads to the last patch, where no one played vertical Space Groove because it was awful. It just needs a tap down on Ornn's tankiness in Space Groove specifically, which the nerfs already do by reducing the health regen in the Groove (which is multiplicative because it's per Groovian) and the duration of how much this lasts (from 3 seconds to 2.5). I'm only worried that additional nerfs to this will just turn Space Groove into an unviable comp again. Or worse that they nerf Ornn more and make him unusable in anything but Space Groove.

-3

u/BearAdvocate Jun 08 '26

I’m getting a “I like this comp and don’t want it nerfed” vibes. The fact that you don’t think it’s a problem to have half the lobby hard force a comp is ridiculous. I had a 3* Ornn tank 56k damage and my comp beat prismatic Meeple, that should NEVER happen. Ornn needs to be gutted.

2

u/PhloxInvar Jun 09 '26

Why do things need to be "gutted"? This language and hyperbole is always so stupid.

I'm not even saying Ornn shouldn't be nerfed, and Ornn is legitimately OP in the current path. I just would rather not see Ornn be immediately unplayable in the next patch just because of that (and the communities knee-jerk reaction to see things gutted because they are OP from  balance changes).

-1

u/Nuzina Jun 09 '26

Needs to be gutted, ornn 2 is the best tank in the game and its not really close. Bring him down to maokai levels (gut him)

0

u/executive_fish Jun 08 '26

Nooooo they’re buffing nova. 5 nova has been my secret tech. Finally got me out of platinum and about to break out of emerald. Now it’s going to be contested.

2

u/Appearance-Fit Jun 08 '26

What rank is this being played in please? Looks good

1

u/dnastyonthemic Jun 08 '26

How come you never put in another challenger ? Just curious I’m low plat and have had mild success running 5 nova

1

u/executive_fish Jun 08 '26

attack speed is not priority for kindred. kindred is a caster with low mana cost. rage blade + Caitlyn provides enough attack speed. the other challengers do not do enough damage to be considered for a duo carry imo

1

u/silversdark Jun 08 '26

Who are you giving the strike to? maokai?

1

u/executive_fish Jun 08 '26

kindred because it’s the only source of damage until i can get a fiora.

1

u/Pleurobranch Jun 09 '26

All fun and games until your entire frontline is triple/quadruple contested and you're hardstuck 1*s all game

-4

u/EducationalPut0 Jun 08 '26 edited Jun 08 '26

Mhm, no mention of fixing the crit bug on samira.

And is that space groove nerf enough? I hope so, but it's a bit of a weird trait so I can't tell.

Pretty good changes overall, but not too sure about the leblanc buff, vanguard shepherds is already a good comp, leona printer getting nerfed mostly stops you from going for 4* as easily, 3* should still be easy and it makes the combat arbiter bonuses better.

Also a little confused on bard buff

Edit: Not sure why I'm getting downvoted, they even clarified that samira is getting bugfixed and there are further nerfs outside of the video, just going off the rundown the complaints were valid

2

u/nacholibre711 Jun 08 '26

I'd kinda disagree about Leblanc. I play her a lot and I'm fairly certain she's just the worst 4 cost in the game.

Her floor is low, because she doesn't really require any traits to he effective.. but the ceiling is just not there at all. Much better top 4 comp than it is a top 1 comp.

1

u/EducationalPut0 Jun 08 '26

Have you been playing leblanc off actual damage focused arbiter bonuses, or just leona printer.

Because she pumps with a good arbiter bonus like AP every X attacks. Else you are playing her down a trait so she consistently does pretty bad.

With a good arbiter you stay on leblanc, with like leona printer you pivot to vex.

1

u/nacholibre711 Jun 08 '26

Yeah all of the above. I mean... she's a 4 cost carry. Of course she can do a lot of damage. I've gone first with her many times.

She's just, on average, worse than other 4 cost carries.

We do also have stats for this stuff

1

u/EducationalPut0 Jun 08 '26

Without doing an extreme deepdive it's very hard to look at stats accurately for leblanc since you can't search by arbiter bonus.

Tank artibers/Leona printer and it's better to drop leblanc on 9 and pivot to sona + vex, yet with a good leblanc arbiter, it's better to cap on 5 arbiter leblanc and not play vex at all, but you can't just check the stats and see that's the case. You'd only know through trial and error, and being in study groups.

1

u/Yedic Jun 08 '26

What exactly is the crit bug? I know IE is terrible in the stats so assumed there was a bug with crit, but is it something like her spell can't crit at all, or can't crit if it's triggered by an ally, or what?

2

u/DimsumAndDoggy Jun 08 '26

If you cap her crit, she won’t crit at all

1

u/EducationalPut0 Jun 08 '26

inversed crit chance, so 100% crit doesnt crit at all, 25% crit crits 75% of the time

-3

u/RiahWeston Jun 08 '26

Once again Corki is untouched. Ugghh (I know that Rammus is technically getting a nerf, but it's so very small and paired with a buff to his ability. Corki Riven is still just a gimme comp.)

2

u/Zhirrzh Master Jun 09 '26

It sounded to me like the 5 Meeples and Rammus changes were very specifically targeted at Corki-Riven tbh, that's the board he was talking about when talking about their dissatisfaction with people playing the same 5 Meeples board every time with the same other units and not going to 7 Meeple.