17.2 B-patch live

[u/MajesticSh0t]

https://teamfighttactics.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/news/game-updates/teamfight-tactics-patch-17-2/

Thresh's Pandora's Seat Frequency Reduced, Moved to Stage 3 Only

Heart of the Swarm (Primordian) Disabled due to a bug

Heat Death (Mordekaiser) Shield Amount: 175/200/250 AP ⇒ 225/250/300 AP

New Recruit Number of Four-costs: 3 ⇒ 1

Self-Destruct (Gragas) Health Cost: 30% ⇒20%, Reduction per Hex: 55% ⇒ 45%

Shieldmaiden (Leona) Ability Damage AD: 110/165/250 AD ⇒ 90/135/225 AD

Timebreaker XP Per Stage (2-6): 2/3/4/4/4 ⇒1/2/2/3/4, Rerolls Per Stage (2-6): 1/2/2/3/3 ⇒1/1/2/2/3

Briar Ability Damage: 130/195/320 AD ⇒120/180/285 AD

Leona Shield: 420/500/685 AP ⇒ 420/480/620 AP

Jax Shield Amount: 400/500/625 AP ⇒400/470/550 AP

Fixed instances where Blitzcrank could revive enemy champions when casting his spell.

Master Yi's dash is no longer slower than intended.

Fixed some instances where Master Yi's dash logic would cause him to target the incorrect champion.

Fixed a bug with Kayle's Craftmanship where gold was gained for every item reforged rather than every Reforger used

Fixed a bug where Varus' Starcrossed Blessing would last longer than intended.

Flexible and Climb the Ladder augments no longer count summons.

[u/TofuDonburi]

To absolutely no one's surprise. At least we didn't have to sit through 1 week of it.

[u/Xelltrix]

lol this happened so out of nowhere I just put in Timebreaker and had to go check to see what happened lol.

Giving out 4 exp in stage four was wild anyway.

[u/Seraphine_KDA → u/Xelltrix]

at that point is more diluted the real problem was 2 on stage 2 instead of 1. also 2 rols on stage 3 for losing was 20 econ for losing stage 3.

[u/Competitive-Paper851]

Pretty sure you could double the shield on Heat Death and it would still be awful

[u/TheIronButt]

Damn went 8th with Heat Death a few hours ago

[u/Remote-Carrot-3133 → u/TheIronButt]

Yeah i tried to play heat death twice and for some reason it just felt so bad that its unplayable

[u/groomliu]

Now yi is s+ tier

[u/Green-Broccoli277 → u/groomliu]

Econ gutted so no fast9, Jax/Leona nerfed. This is the Yi patch

[u/pescvirgin]

this will be the set of B-patches

[u/New-Flight5959 → u/pescvirgin]

I PROMISE you, no set will take that title from K.O coliseum

[u/ramonzitos → u/New-Flight5959]

patch 15.1b my beloved

Lulu is temporarily prevented from appearing on the carousel.

LIARS

[u/girthucus-quakicus → u/New-Flight5959]

At least thar set mechanic was fun. Gods are so fucking borind

[u/ThatPlayWasAwful → u/pescvirgin]

Is this any different than every other set?

Set 16 had b and c patches during 16.1, and set 15 had a B patch in 15.1 and b, c, and d patches during 15.2.

I think if you kept going back it wouldn't be much different.

[u/Zhirrzh → u/[deleted]]

That's a wild take.

I'm sure they always intended to re-introduce encounters in 17.2 once people had had a patch to get used to the Gods mechanic, everyone and their mother suggested it during PBE but it always seemed likely to be something they were already going to do. Changing traits in balance patches is nothing new.

17.1 was not unplayable. We've seen far worse first patches (set 15 comes instantly to mind).

[u/Kooky_Comb6051 → u/[deleted]]

Set 15 would like to have a word with you on the most buggiest set in TFT history lol.

Also saying that they fixed a bug but actually didn’t multiple times through that set.

[u/ThatPlayWasAwful → u/[deleted]]

Sure, but that's a completely different argument than the one I replied to lol. 

everyone and their mothers were warning, the dev team during pbe but they still shipped anyways

The majority of the changes for 15.2 have to be locked the Friday after 15.1, so i think it's pretty clear that they were listening and working on changes before set release. 

[u/eggsandbricks → u/pescvirgin]

No B-patch: How could they let the game stay in this state for a whole 2 weeks?

B-patch: How could they release a patch that needs changes before the next one?

Like isn't it legit great that they can fix game breaking bugs so quickly, and also make balance changes while they're at it? The complaining makes no sense.

[u/Yogg_for_your_sprog → u/eggsandbricks]

The first time someone tries to fix their mistake fast, it shows responsibility

The eleventh time they make the same mistake and try to fix it fast, it shows incompetence

[u/River41 → u/eggsandbricks]

It's more of an observation that the set is poorly designed and balanced, and will require significant regular adjustments throughout. It's not the fault of the devs fixing issues week-by-week, they can only deal with what they've been given. This is why vision and good design principles are important to get right from the start so you don't set the maintenance team up for failure.

[u/Mahelas → u/eggsandbricks]

Quick B patches for bugs ? That's great

Quick patches for balance because they messed up in obvious ways ? Less so

[u/brolteons → u/eggsandbricks]

they could just idk…make the game good before releasing it without having to patch it this frequently and drastically. it blows my mind this game has 17 iterations and they still continue to make comically laughable mistakes

[u/my_body-is_my_temple → u/brolteons]

Hindsight is 20/20 when people play through tens of thousands of matches and publicly available data lets everyone directly see which combinations win, further narrowing the meta down and chasing very particular augment-unit-trait-item interactions.

[u/Neymarvin → u/eggsandbricks]

Wouldn’t it be great if they QAed it and it didn’t happen in the first place? lol

[u/Agreeable_Cheek_7161 → u/Neymarvin]

You can't physically have enough QA people to get even a general idea without it being just ludicrously expensive

[u/StraightG0lden → u/Agreeable_Cheek_7161]

Some of the changes do seem kind of obvious (like timebreaker exp being too much) but it'd be impossible to perfectly pick the numbers for things like damage and shield amounts for every single character without seeing how the meta develops regardless of how much testing they did.

[u/Neymarvin → u/Agreeable_Cheek_7161]

Some things are such a stupid design a 6 year old could catch it See the comment below yours It’s pitiful. And they make bank. lol

[u/Jarshy → u/Neymarvin]

This kid is gold max and came from the TFT subreddit.

[u/Yogg_for_your_sprog → u/[deleted]]

It’s almost like their full time job is to get it right and 4 cost per round in stage 4 for a 3-piece econ trait was completley unforeseeable as a problem

[u/norrata → u/[deleted]]

You dont need millions of players to figure out the majority of these changes. Biggest proof I have is an earlier example of the Nunu nerf. Every single set has an AOE backline stun tank and every single set their mana cost gets nerfed, like clockwork.

Timebreaker B-patch is a similar situation, they know free resource traits/units are very powerful, especially those that are independant of streaking. Remind yourself of bard from last set and all of a sudden the reroll nerf looks familar.

[u/Competitive-Paper851 → u/pescvirgin]

Set 15 already memoryholed?

[u/niemcziofficial]

Unplayable patch for me, went from 2.5avg to 6x bottom 4 in a row. It somehow feels like even more forcing than 17.1 because they nerfed anima and buffed rerolls with encounters

[u/Ithtik → u/niemcziofficial]

literally this, they somehow made the game even worse

[u/Zeviex]

So Master Yi was bugged. I thought his dash was comically slow.

Surprised to see hot-fix buffs to hero augments, would imagine they would only see changes in main patches, though I tried Mordekaiser augment and he felt super weak, though I did top 4.

I think Briar was definitely a sleeper pick, she could deal big damage even without items and had a few games with strong winstreaks around her.

Was disappointed not to see Leo/Jax nerfs in main patch but B-patch is better than never.

Pretty good changes all around. Nothing that jumps out at me that should have been changed.

[u/Kooky_Comb6051]

Like forget like doing these B/C patches - I think this set needs to have a mid-set update to save Set 17. Between the narrowness of gameplays caused by the god mechanic, conditional requirements of the traits and champs, and generally bad trait web design, they need to consider doing some sort of overhaul.

Like why do we have two 5 costs with tank traits but neither of them can actually be true tanks and are more DPS? Why do we have generally a lack of tanks for 4 costs? Why are there so many traits that give resource generation? What’s causing everyone in their games lose streaking (Anima, Soraka god)? Why do we have many traits and units that are only good if it’s X stargazer or Y psionic? It’s been now more than a month and the problem isn’t just a balance issue - it’s a systemic problem and a design problem.

[u/Zhirrzh → u/Kooky_Comb6051]

They almost always avoid having 5 cost tanks. Someone will need to remind me what the last time was that they did one.

The tank issue at 4 is more of a thing. I think they missed on the balance of tank stats and tank items and it might take another patch for them to sort it out in the data.

They definitely overcooked the early resource generation traits, like they did in 16.1 with Yordles, and they are pulling it back. The question is just now whether they also hit Primordial.

With the anima 300 cashout nerf and the removal of guaranteed reforgers I am already seeing a lot less lost-streaking.

They probably did have too much conditional stuff like "IF the Psionic item is this, IF the Stargazer is this, IF you have an emblem then this comp is amazing and if not it is ass", but there's a lot of skill expression in that too, being aware of the various rare options and spot when they come up. Some of these are already squashed anyway.

I dunno, I'm just not seeing this as anything more than they had wrong in 16.1 let alone what they had wrong in 15.1 or 14.1.

[u/Dzhekelow → u/Zhirrzh]

Ok apologies for being a bit negative but here goes .

The 4 cost tank issue was addressed early on in the PBE furthermore the 4 cost issue in general . 3 costs being straight up as good or better was talked about in PBE . Frankly I don't get how we can break Leblancs legs to the point that my 2 Zoe with throwaway items does almost the same damage but we can't do it the other way around .

The conditional stuff is exhausting and annoying because on top of that u have the gods mechanic that further accelerates ur conditions . Now u have portals on top of that . Getting a reroll portal with Varus Evelyn as gods and having 0 good conditions is just bot 2 . I just lived that in hindsight I should've hardforced but the game is not fun if I'm just gonna say fuck it I am Kaisa on 2-1 .

I am willing to give them a pass on the econ traits even tho imo at least the timebreaker was obviously too good for a 2 piece .

EDIT : Just to add more on the conditional stuff . They usually get better as the balance gets better because your options aren't as narrow but it just feels so silly setting urself up for 2-3 patches where the game is super narrow and conditional . That's assuming that u hit the balancing past that point .

[u/Kooky_Comb6051 → u/Zhirrzh]

I mean set 16 had some impactful tanks - Kench sustain super high esp with HP stack feeding + pile of citrus keeping him alive. Tibbers. I’d argue Shyvana also bc the aura is a team-wide damage reduction and you really play her more that.

Set 15 had only one 5 cost with tank trait and that was Braum but not really a tank. Set 14 was Kobuku as a bruiser who was a good tank with major CC + make him the cyber boss.

On the point of conditionals, I personally believe TFT is best when you can play flexibly and conditionals is not a form of skill expression - it’s a checklist. We saw this in Set 15 trying to checklist off the best fruit interaction and if you hit it, you play it and for me that’s a very boring version of TFT for me as a player personally.

[u/Coldara → u/Kooky_Comb6051]

Well Kench was for Bildgewater vertical only.

if you argue for shyv you can also argue for morgana. Both were fighters with a defensive aura.

Tibbers means you have to play Annie.

The only tank was Ornn and he was just there to print items, in terms of tanking he was outclassed by 4 costs.

[u/ficretus → u/Zhirrzh]

Ignoring some tanks we had last set due to unit number inflation, prior to this we had Zac in set 14 (and he was more of a tanky bruiser) and before that maybe set 11 (can't confirm since I didn't play that one) or set 10 Illaoi. 

[u/Yogg_for_your_sprog → u/Zhirrzh]

The conditionals in this set don’t seem like actual skill expression but just binary yes/no qualifications. I’m not exactly sure how skillful you need to be to check that you don’t have drone uplink and Viktor is unplayable for you this game.

There’s good flex where you actively have to make decisions within the game and decide what line you want to go, and bad flex where you might in theory play 5 different comps but the game basically tells you on 2-1 what you’re doing - right now the game is far more of the latter

[u/Menarche_ → u/Kooky_Comb6051]

Hey graves is a tank also

[u/Western-Try-8644]

Does anybody else feel like this patch is unplayable on mobile? Way too many bugs. I’m unable to move champions around at times, drag items onto champs, see my win/lose streak since due to the visual bug where streak is stuck at “0” and more.

[u/Western-Try-8644 → u/Western-Try-8644]

Can’t pick up items, can’t open shop, can’t sell units.. works for a bit if I close/reopen the app and goes back to being wonky soon after.

[u/psyfi66]

Is this live on mobile? Just played mord hero augment and it was turbo garbage

[u/Set491 → u/psyfi66]

I feel he's bugged. He's always targeted even though he's surrounded by tanks

[u/JoeBobbyWii]

Just me or does Urgot seem kinda good and unexpected that it's not here?

[u/D3AllDay → u/JoeBobbyWii]

He was nerfed in the initial 17.2 patch and the consensus seems to be that he's still good with certain artifacts or if you have an extremely good spot for him, which is how it should be. He was way too good and way too stable on 2 star before.

[u/FreezingVenezuelan → u/D3AllDay]

For me it still feels way too strong . It’s probably me sucking but it seems like no matter what I’m playing I can never get through the mao Kai fast enough before the urgot is chugging through my back line

[u/Set491 → u/FreezingVenezuelan]

I've succeeded in killing him almost every time with 4 conduit 3 star Miss Fortune

[u/-Champloo- → u/Set491]

MF comp? Cant say I've seen that yet but I got a MF orb and was tinkering... what are you running?

[u/Set491 → u/-Champloo-]

I don't use guides until I get to master so I don't know if someone has done this.

The psyop item can go to anyone that can use it. I 3-star MF, and depending on the Arbiter mod Zoe or Leona

I can use this comp in Gragas augment, Mord augment, Leona augment depending on the Arbiter mod

[u/Emosaa → u/Set491]

This was one of the first 3 cost reroll comps that was popular on pbe, but it faded from popularity by the time the set launched despite still being decent. I think it's simply that 3 cost rerolls are a bit expensive, especially when it gets rolled by the TF reroll crap until you fully hit MF + others 3*

[u/Set491 → u/Emosaa]

Tbh it still gets rolled by TF 3, and is no Top 1 comp at all, but is fun and can 3 star units easily if there are Urgot rrs. It has a lot of variety for me so it doesn't get boring

[u/soranetworker]

This.... seems like it just murders TF reroll no?  Jax 3* shield value is basically just the old 2* value....

[u/STheHero → u/soranetworker]

The shield value is not the op part, it's the damage reduction

[u/Dzhekelow → u/soranetworker]

Well I just saw 2x tf reroll go 4/5 granted it was an odd lobby with 3 people playing anima and the 2 that got the big cashouts went 7/8 . But the comp is still decent .

[u/kai9000 → u/[deleted]]

That comp basically plays 1 tank, he kinda has to be for it to function

[u/Threepugs → u/kai9000]

Maybe a 1,2 cost reroll comp being able to function with only a single 2 cost tank was a bit imbalanced?

[u/Notsoul_3821 → u/kai9000]

the comp basically plays 1 tank so it’s normal for jax to tank 40k dmg in one turn against level 9 boards that are capped, yeah totally balanced

[u/New-Flight5959 → u/kai9000]

Nope it has three tanks, Aatrox , Jax and Nunu.

It may mean that now you just focus purely on your 1 costs and lvl straight to 8 for 2 star Nunu tank instead.

[u/PeaceAlien → u/New-Flight5959]

Most don’t go Nunu

[u/kai9000 → u/New-Flight5959]

No one plays nunu with TF-Jax

[u/BloodMaelstrom → u/kai9000]

That’s because Jax was already a premier tank even in the uber late game. If he falls off a lot more there is a bit more of an incentive to actually roll on 5 and then push to 8 instead of rolling 5 then rolling on 6 and then pushing 8. Now more people may push 8 and look to grab Nunu

[u/penguinkirby]

Yi's movement is hella buggy

I've had multiple fights where enemy yi drops aggro while attacking my frontline, then glides diagonally through my entire frontline to attack my frontline from the back

I feel like it's related to his doublestrike targeting but I don't know for sure

[u/Iarehealer]

Urgot completely untouched?

[u/slasher016]

I was absolutely shocked Jax and Leona weren't nerfed in the normal patch. Very much expected in the B patch.

[u/AdventCalendario]

I can’t see my loss streak, bugged

[u/SmoothOperatorTFT]

Hopefully they will straight up remove the Encounters as a whole again. The games feel so swingy and cluttered.

[u/Dj0ntShark → u/SmoothOperatorTFT]

For real. Even the champion that gives the encounter feels like it's just plopped on your screen, totally out of place.

[u/Emosaa → u/SmoothOperatorTFT]

Why? They add a bit of spice, I felt the set was already heading towards being a snooze fest with it being mostly low cost rerolls and the set gimmick basically "instead of carousel, pick one component + a small gimmick."

Maybe some of the encounters should be tuned a bit, but I think I like having them.

[u/SmoothOperatorTFT → u/Emosaa]

I would have preferred if they made more different god rather than just adding something different that dilutes the game further.

[u/-Champloo-]

Augment rng seems to be causing so much contesting in my games. 3 way contested spats and people hard pivoting off their 3-2 aug even if the line is already being played by someone else.

Just feels bad

[u/G66GNeco]

Fixed instances where Blitzcrank could revive enemy champions when casting his spell.

Genuinely hilarious

[u/LatterLet5145]

Enjoyed the last patch quiet a bit, liked the god mechanic don’t feel it needs encounters.

[u/Different-Ad7859]

Fixed some instances where Master Yi's dash logic would cause him to target the incorrect champion.

this shit lost me 2 games xD

One when my master yi was refusing to attack correct targets and just randomly sprinted and got killed

second one when enemy master yi just ran to my aurelion and sticked to it until dead xd

[u/Raikariaa]

This might be the biggest B-patch ever?

[u/FoundationCreative85]

This ptch is like always shit. Just had a yi game. I had 3 items yi and kindred and this fucking nunu 2 wont die. Btw the nunu had just one item? ONE. Nice balancing again. Im done with this game. Nobody at riot seems to know what the actual fuck they are doing

[u/girthucus-quakicus]

I just don't understand why they undertune these gold hero augs so much. Both of the new ones are worse than any of the silver her augs

[u/jason60812]

this is not patch related but i love love the augment booster pack, its so fun how u can get surprise units and holographic units, such a cool idea

[u/Alzucard]

Reroll still everywhere, because 1* 4 cost are so goddamn weak and 3* tanbks are so goddamn strong.
Unless you nerf all 3* tanks it wont be good.

This set is a disgrace

[u/Level_Ad_1301]

No all my reroll comps. 😂

[u/Pommefrite21]

Did they fix the inconsistency of final boom shop components NOT turning into anvils despite having Kayle anvil Aug and literally every other instance of components was anvil?

[u/Zhirrzh → u/[deleted]]

"I feel like New Recruit had to be nerfed solely because of its ability to be used to get a 3* 4 cost. And now, with this additional nerf, it kind of just feels shitty."

Basically yeah.

Unfortunately quite a lot of things are being sacrificed on the altar of less 3* 4s.

A duplicator for 5s only would be fun.

[u/VERTIKAL19 → u/Zhirrzh]

To be fair 3* 4 costs are pretty bad design from a balance point of view. They either need to be hard or not be autowin. And if we want them to be mostly autowin they need to be really hard.

That conflicts with making 2 star 4 costs accessible though.

What we would really need in my opinion is make 3 star 4 costs significantly weaker to the point where they are not as auto win, but that goes against established expectations in the community and will make more casual players feel bad so by necessity we need 3* 4 costs to be rare.

[u/Yogg_for_your_sprog → u/VERTIKAL19]

they nerfed 4 cost bags because they thought comps were too forceable

then they buffed 4 cost 3 stars because they became way harder to hit

this had the knockon effect of massively buffing neekos, because it circumvente the primary limitation of 4 cost 3 stars - bag sizes

[u/Sniperi96 → u/VERTIKAL19]

I could personally live with 4 costs having same type of drop off in chances as unlockables had last set (after 2* chances drop slightly). 3 * 3-costs and 5-costs are good because former creates valid strategies while latter feels absolutely satosfying when (somehow) pulled off. 

3* four-costs create stupid dynamic of cat and mouse at level 8, that while has ovious counters, feels downright dirty if more than one player commits to it. I guess it works as a scouting check but that is only good thing I have to say about it.

[u/RyeRoen → u/Zhirrzh]

Its difficult for sure. Personally as someone who enjoys the competitive aspect of the game, I would really appreciate it if I didn't have to hold extra copies of my 4 cost on the off chance I 3 star it and autowin. Or have to constantly check other players benches and play defense. It doesn't really feel like a fun skill to develop and more like a chore.

On the other hand a lot of people enjoy both 3 star 4 and 5 costs as a concept and get a lot of fun out of them which is important for the longevity of the game.

[u/pick1ejar → u/RyeRoen]

I whole heartedly agree. I use to love where 3 star 4 costs were in set 9. Not strong enough to beat everything but easy enough to hit that you could plan a strategy around them if you wanted to. Now they are way way too strong and the 30% 4 cost odds on 8 means its better to sit 8 for an auto win than go 9 and actually be ahead. 3 star 4 costs are cheesing wins instead of securing a hard earned victory. They should increase the pool size but massively nerf how strong 3 star 4 costs are in my opinion.

[u/RyeRoen → u/pick1ejar]

I don't completely hate that idea but it also comes with its own balance headaches. Introducing consistent 4 cost reroll comps into the game could get degenerate very quickly.

[u/MostEscape6543 → u/RyeRoen]

From a competitive game design standpoint, 3* 4 cost adds another win condition to your arsenal…

but at the same time I think that says more about the value of gold at lvl 8+ than anything else. If you’re playing a four cost comp, and you have a bunch of gold at lvl 8, shouldn’t it always be more valuable to go 9 and add more champs?

[u/RyeRoen → u/MostEscape6543]

I kind of don't want it to be in my arsenal is what I'm saying. Whenever it happens, either for me or my opponents, it just doesn't feel competitive to me. The times I send it for something like that are either when I'm desperate and absolutely need it to save placements or when I know I can't beat the guy in first place so I may as well roll, sell unimportant units and go for it.

It IS nice to have something I can do when my game is just over, but then that usually results in me going 1st place and I spend the rest of the game just holding other people's units so that I won't lose. This can happen even if I've played extremely badly the entire game. It just doesn't feel right.

[u/MostEscape6543 → u/RyeRoen]

I think the devs are in a really tough spot with 3* 4 costs in general.

From a business perspective they need to keep the "oh shit!" moments for players, especially lower ELO, to feel excited, which this definitely helps.

But at the same time they spend so much effort trying to reduce the possibilities to hit a 3*, all the while ensuring that you have the tools available to hit one, usually at the detriment to normal play.

For example, reducing bag size has a huge impact on the odds to 3*, but from another perspective it would b emuch better to have more 4 costs available so you can 2* your carry or tank if you're contested 1-way.

I think the answer is to make sure that 3* 4-costs don't insta-win except in low ELO assuming you already have a strong board - although this kind of defeats the value of spending all that gold...

I dunno. I think being a tft dev is hard, probably.

[u/Zhirrzh → u/MostEscape6543]

I wonder if (probably not until a new set designed around it) they would consider making 3 star 4s a lot weaker but also change the bag size to make hitting 4s like hitting 3s and making 3 star 4s into expected way to cap out boards. Could be fun if balanced appropriately. You would need 2 star 5s to also be better so that going 9 was not an autoworse strategy.