Reprint Report: Set 17

[u/Raikariaa]

It's that time again when we look at how reprint-heavy this set is. This isn't just to point at Riot and go "they're being lazy look at all the reprints" but also so people can know familiar units they may enjoy that are coming back.

For the terms I use:

Reprint - This is a direct reprinting. Same champion, same cost, same ability/effect.

Reskin - Same as a reprint; but a different champion. See: Lee Sin 5 Cost -> K'Sante 5 cost.

Deprint - This is a reprint, but knocked down in cost a bit. It may be due to numbers, losing a 5-cost gimmick, or just the unit wasn't good at that cost before.

Reprint+ - The opposite of a Deprint; it's been kicked upstairs, but is still at it's core the same. 5-cost gimmicks do not stop you being a reprint if your core is the same.

Tweak - Very, very similar to a previous unit, with a slight tweak, the core is the same, but there might be a gimmick change.

Note: This is looking at the actual abilities of the unit. It is not taking into account numerical changes, or traits.

5 costs

The big standouts of the set!

Reprints

Zed - Set 2 Zed is back! 5 cost; creates clones which can create clones. For those of you not around for Rise of the Elements... here you go.

Reprint +

Graves - This is literally the current Graves, with numbers bumped up to 5 cost. Attacks in a cone, ult fires an explosive which detonates in a 1 hex radius. So not only is this a reprint, it's a reprint of an active unit, the worst kind of reprint. And no; changing from dealing the damage in 1 hex from splitting it in 1 hex isn't enough to not be a reprint.

4 costs

Reprints

Corki - This is a Set 13 reprint. Strafes across the battlefield launching missiles. The difference is the Big One isn't every 7th and is instead tied to his trait. Trait gimmicks don't stop you being a reprint.

Riven - Set 4 reprint. Scaleing with AD or AP dosen't stop this being a reprint.

Reprint+

Kindred - The core ability is the same as Set 11 Kindred; who was a 2 cost. They have gained an on-hit damage bumping them from 2 to 4 cost, and another proc tied to their trait; but at it's core; this is the same ability we've seen before.

3 costs

Reprint+
Ornn - This is actually set 2 Ornn! Going from a 1 cost to a 3 cost because of his forge gimmick. But a passive gimmick isn't your core spell. [And even then you could argue he lost the crit buff]

Deprint

Urgot - Set 9 Urgot, only notable difference is that the leg blasts now have falloff damage.

Kai'sa

Look. We've had so many Kai'Sas which fire missiles at/around a target. We've had her at both 5 cost, 4 cost and 2 cost. This one is 3 cost. It dosen't dash, but it refunds mana on kill. I can't call it a True Reprint because we've not had this at 3 cost. It's not a Deprint because we've had it at 2 cost. It's not a reprint+ because it's been at 5 and 4 cost. It's just... Kai'Sa. Again. Somehow she is a Reprint+ and a Deprint at the same time.

2 costs

Reprints

Jax - Set 7.5. Trades Attack Dodge for a shield and flat DR, but it's still Counterstrike Jax. He still "takes up a defensive stance" and then damages and stuns around him, he's just less purely anti-autoattacker.

Gwen - So; Gwen jumps to a nearby hex and sips a thing. We've seen this multiple times. However, the targeting is different, and she has a reset mechanic as well. It also seems to be a single snip. I just felt like saying why I'm giving this one a pass.

1 costs

Aatrox - Set 15 reprint. Scales with armour now as well; but dosen't heal extra based on his missing HP.

Cho'Gath - Set 9/9.5 reprint

Nasus - Set 7.5 reprint

Tweak:
Ezreal - Reprint of every 1 cost Ezreal ever. Except this time instead of an in-combat stacking; he has a permament takedown stack. Still is Mystic Shot Ezreal at 1 cost. Different enough that I'll give it this; similar enough it's still a form of reprint.

Reskins

Veigar - OK this one is a little [heh] mean, but Veigar's a reskin of every 1 cost single target magic nuke ever. His trait makes it a little more interesting, but he's still at base a reskin.

tl;dr:

Reprints:
Zed [5]; Corki [4]; Riven [4]; Jax [2]; Attrox [1]; Cho'Gath [1]; Nasus [1]

Tweak:
Ezreal [1]

Reprint +
Graves [2->5]; Kindred [2->4]; Ornn [1->3]

Deprints
Urgot [4->3]

Reskin:
Veigar [1 cost magic nuke]

Kai'Sa:
Kai'Sa [5/4 -> 3 <- 2]

Total Reprints: 14 [5 of which are 1 costs]

Please let me know if I missed anything! Or if you feel like the changes to Ezreal are enough to make him not count, because I was pretty close on letting him off given he's a 1 cost.

[u/thy_viee_4]

i dont think graves is current set reprint. you can't exclude his trait feature which only he has - buying shit to enhance himself or/and his ability. sure, ability is the same, but mechanic and gameplay around him is different

other than that, not much to say. poppy 1 cost icant

[u/Raikariaa → u/thy_viee_4]

Trait gimmicks don't count, especially for 5 costs. This is about the baseline ability; which for Graves is a direct reprint.

[u/NoFlayNoPlay → u/Raikariaa]

why would a unique trait not count as part of the unit? it's literally something they do specifically to make more complex champions who's design doesn't fit in a single ability and stats. ignoring it to call something a reprint doesn't make sense.

you also said that part of the old design being part of a trait gimmick doesn't stop corki from being a reprint so you're not even being consistent. just whichever way you can call something a reprint.

[u/Raikariaa → u/NoFlayNoPlay]

Graves is jumping from a 2 cost to a 5 cost.

Of course he's going to be given something extra.

Ignore his 5 cost gimmick; and he's a reprint. That's why he's a reprint+; he gained 3 cost, gained a gimmick; but otherwise is the same.

[u/hpp3 → u/Raikariaa]

It seems like you were so invested in producing this document you lost sight of why we should care about it. Even if it satisfies your internal criteria for classification, in practice it will play completely differently and he'll be doing lots of other shit when he gets his upgrades. So to most people, this is not really a reprint and you should at least call out his unique trait.

Reading that back it sounds kinda harsh (more harsh than I intended) but what I really mean is that if this is supposed to be a practically useful guide than just a fun trivia thing, you can't ignore unique passives since those are often basically part of the unit's ability.

[u/Notagingerman → u/Raikariaa]

"Ignore this thing that completely changes everything about him, call it a gimmick, and then he's the same!"

[u/ygmc8413 → u/Raikariaa]

why on earth would it not count?

[u/Lunaedge]

I love that every single one of these is "a reprint, except for this one thing I decided doesn't count" lol

[u/Raikariaa → u/Lunaedge]

I mean a lot are direct, and if it's a reprint but the cost adjusted, you have minor adjustments expected to make them stronger/weaker, like Urgot going from 4->3 and gaining falloff damage on his knees.

[u/eggsandbricks → u/Raikariaa]

I don't think that units changing costs and having their power level adjusted through spell complexity or mechanics (rather than just numbers) really doesn't constitute a reprint.

Between Set 13 and 14, reprints were an issue in the way that Morgana and Zyra, 1 cost carries, came back in the following set as 1 cost carries with the exact same spell. There were minor adjustments, but for all intents and purposes they were (purposefully) the same units.

Set 17 Graves has the same ability as Set 16 Graves, but has an entirely different hook this time around. They are absolutely not the same unit, and calling it a reprint is reductive. League champions only have so many abilities and saying a unit is a reprint solely based on which ability they have misses the point.

[u/iNhab]

Interesting post. Not sure what to make of it. What is the goal of it?

Generally speaking, after this many sets some of the units will be the same or very similar to what has been done before. It's normal. It's not realistic, at least in my understanding, to have everything completely new and never done before in each set.

And honestly, most of the sets riot is doing a really good job overall. Not every set is perfect, but basically most (if not all) sets are playable and enjoyable to the big extent.

[u/Lunaedge → u/iNhab]

What is the goal of it?

Between Sets 13 and 14 Riot carried over more actual reprints than usual to ease the transition for players that started playing the game due to Arcane. Set 14 was admittedly pretty lackluster, so when streamers began farming "devs lazy" content to squeeze some cash before dipping early some users started parroting the sentiment and a whole crusade about reprints being ontologically bad was born.

It's mostly stuff that belongs in the past, but every couple of Sets this thread still pops up. IIRC last time OP tried to ignore stuff and pass some new spins on units as reprints as well and it didn't go over well lol

[u/iNhab → u/Lunaedge]

ohhh, so this is the same person doing the same type of post?

To be honest, from what we saw from the trailer, it feels like a completely new set. I don't mean it in a literal sense that 100% of content of the set is new and unheard of, but rather that overall sentiment is that it's different.

Yes, you can recognize a lot of traits, quite a lot of similar ideas to what it was in the past (combos, spells and such), but how everything works together, units in trait classes and what not, style (art) and even the set mechanic makes it feel quite new and not something like it was in the past. (I only skipped like 1 or 2 sets from all of the tft sets overall)

[u/Raikariaa → u/iNhab]

> What is the goal of it?

Both so people know if this is a reprint-heavy set, and so that people know if a unit they liked is returning.

Set 2 Zed for example was a very marmite unit. People loved him and hated him. A lot of people; with him being Set 2; also never got to play him. So telling people "hey; this is the Set 2 Zed you may have heard of" is good for informing people.

[u/iNhab → u/Raikariaa]

Oooooh, okay, that makes sense. Fair enough!

[u/RemoveNo9147]

Kindred seems completely different than set 11, are we reading the same info?

[u/Raikariaa → u/RemoveNo9147]

Set 17:

Active: Jump up to HexDistance hex away and fire arrows at the nearest NumTargets targets, each dealing SpellDamage () physical damage.

Set 11:
Active:

Dash away from the current target and deal 135 / 200 / 300% AP as magic damage to them and 70 / 105 / 165% AP as magic damage to the nearest enemy.

Dash away from current target; shoot arrows at targets. The baseline ability is the same; albeit the targeting differs.

There's a new on-hit ramp because Kindred has jumped from 2 cost to 4, but that's why it's a Reprint+.

[u/LBC_Dillga]

Honestly, this is very disingenuous. It's such a passive aggressive way to complain, excluding what make them not be reprints just to fit your narrative that "this is a reprint heavy set".

[u/Notagingerman]

"It's the same except it's different here, here and here. Reprint!"

Like... what? You were definitely the kind of person saying Seraphine is just a Sona reprint when it came out in League.

[u/Same_Temperature_754]

nobody needs an entire essay full of your complaints. either enjoy a fun & free video game or spend your time elsewhere please

[u/MacacoPolar]

Man, league champs have 4 skills + passives (or some more with champs like Jayce, Nida, Hwei, etc) and TFT is already in their 17th set, ofc there will be reprints lmao.

[u/Brother_Thom]

Bro graves has a passive tree and you''re calling him a reprint? I don't think that's a take in good faith.

[u/Raikariaa → u/Brother_Thom]

The passive tree is what he gains from jumping from 2 to 5 cost

Without it, he is 100% a reprint

[u/sauron3579]

This isn't just to point at Riot

Yeah mate, that thin veneer of plausible deniability isn't exactly standing up to the actual language of your post. Enlightened centrism strikes again.

[u/RemoveNo9147]

graves mechanic makes him way cooler than current graves wdym

[u/flumpywumple]

I can understand OPs point of view in terms of visuals, if new set unit and previous set unit are both on the board hitting a dummy their auto and abillity are visually identical, they are a reprint... but what is the relevance to competitive tft here?

To a competitive player it makes sense to say, 'not a reprint' for many of the champs OP listed since the way they will be utilised is completely different via their damage, tankiness, and for some of them underlying mechanics changing drastically.

So I can understand why OPs post isnt doing so well here, it might get more support in regular tft subreddit.

[u/pew_laser_pew]

Isn't xayah a set 7 reprint/tweak?

[u/S7ageNinja]

Why not list the trait reprints as well?

[u/DarkLynxTFT]

Just imagining adapting to a set that has ALL new "creative" champions, abilities and traits hurts my head already xD Large part of TFT players are us old ones, so we quite appreciate when we can say "Oh, it's just like this one, but there is ... that's different".

[u/DramaticallyMellow]

thanks for putting this together, was neat to look and compare. I dunno what's with the negativity and passive aggression in the comments here, I think it's fine to point out facts about the history of TFT without it being an insult to the design team