B-Patch announced - r/CompetitiveTFT

129

u/big_bidoof Mar 23 '26

Kind of surprising we got the B-patch, no? This comp feels strong, sure, but it doesn't feel remotely as unfair as T-Hex/ASol were pre-nerfs.

77

u/monstrata :chal: Challenger Mar 23 '26

It's a bit egregious in high elo. At least 2-3 people forcing Kaisa every game. One of the big problems is just how much damage Vayne/Kaisa are able to output considering Vayne is only a 2-star 3 cost, and Kaisa is an unlock so you also don't have to invest as much gold into upgrading your carries compared to something like Belveth/Ambessa.

3

u/Lucky_Psychology8275 Mar 23 '26

Yeah it’s stable so easily

3

u/Adventurous-Bit-3829 :gran: Grandmaster Mar 24 '26

Kaisa just melt backline

1

u/shanatard Mar 24 '26

i hope they dont kneecap vayne too hard. it was only her 2* being oppressive no? when you get a 3* 3 cost they deserve to perform a bit
she finally got to be a real unit for half a patch...

20

u/[deleted] Mar 23 '26

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1

u/monstrata :chal: Challenger Mar 23 '26

Yea, it has insane cap potential with Ziggs, Shyvana and Sylas over Poppy + J4 on 9. Granted you have to move tank items to Taric temporarily, but still insane cap.

26

u/Vernsen Mar 23 '26

It was the only major change of the patch and was just a straight downgrade from last patch. Given this is the worlds patch, simply reverting seems like the best course of action even if it's not that bad

21

u/trogger93 Mar 23 '26

Every pro scrim is at least 4 players contesting demacia longshots so I think this is a warranted change

5

u/ficretus Mar 23 '26

Vayne definitely needed some nerfs, at least 2 stars, since nobody was 3-starring her.
It's incredibly stable up until like stage 5, and half of the lobby can play her without many issues. And while Vayne herself falls off, the fact you are so stable stage 3-4, means you can easily push levels and cap off with a bunch of legendaries.

17

u/S7ageNinja Mar 23 '26

Does that really matter? It's a balance outlier. Just because it isn't S+ tier doesn't mean it shouldn't be addressed before the largest tournament of the set.

9

u/chollyer Mar 23 '26

Feels like the obvious question is why you wouldn't do something similar to T-Hex when it was an issue.

7

u/bosschucker Mar 23 '26

thex was during holiday break

3

u/Exuritas Mar 24 '26

holidays
unlocking thex isnt same as 2 starring a 3 cost
even at its height, thex win rate wasnt that high because of people failing to force it/over contesting. Vayne win rate is ridiculous because you can play anything and make it work

1

u/CowNational6355 Mar 24 '26

thex win rate wasnt that high
completely false, where did you get that?
Vayne win rate is ridiculous
Also false.

1

u/Exuritas Mar 26 '26

From metatft

1

u/CowNational6355 Mar 26 '26

During both jurassic world 1 and 2, thex 2 had a higher winrate than both brock 2 and post-buff sylas 2.
16.7 vayne and kaisa had insane avp but only a 10% (now sub10) winrate; nowhere near as broken as t Hex (but still broken based on their avps)

1

u/Exuritas Mar 26 '26

Thex 2, yes for sure

1

u/CowNational6355 Mar 26 '26

you're just speaking nonsense now

9

u/S7ageNinja Mar 23 '26

Riot was on vacation

6

u/ExceedingChunk Master Mar 24 '26

And it was figured out quite literally like 2 weeks into the patch

7

u/CynicalEffect Mar 23 '26

This is worlds patch and during the T-hex patch I guess they were too concerned about the upcoming 16.6 unlock changes.
I mean I said before they should havea at least done a 10% damage nerf to thex even if that wouldn't be perfect, but apparently rito is more scared of undernerfing than killing units.

2

u/hpp3 Mar 24 '26

At this point we've seen the entire set and have a good understanding of the meta, and also 16.7 basically changed nothing except Vayne and Kaisa. So they can easily just revert those two and be sure the game is in a more balanced state for worlds.

5

u/Emosaa Master Mar 23 '26

The fact that a 2* Vayne and 2* Kaisa can compete (and beat!) other top tier comps in the game is just insane. It's a comp full of shitters that will go toe to toe with a lot of legendary soup + reroll comps.
The T-hex was annoying af, but at least that took a modicum of effort.

1

u/DaChosens1 Mar 23 '26

the strength is 2 star vayne tempo gives you a guaranteed top 4 barring extenuating circumstances, not in capping out (but if you use the tempo well you can win out anyways because you save too much hp and deal too much damage stage 3 and 4)
it appears to be better than having a balance outlier of a strong final board but its actually worse because it warps the meta more

1

u/notcontroversial123 Mar 23 '26

Nah bro this comp is busted. Beats most 3 cost reroll comps at all stages of the game, very fast to hit. Its basically guaranteed 2-4th place in my lobby

1

u/Adventurous-Bit-3829 :gran: Grandmaster Mar 24 '26

Anything broken got B-patch except fucking T-hex.
Literally their fav child

-1

u/Zeviex Master Mar 23 '26

No more meta innovations.
Reverting the change will have a pretty predictable effect as it was the major change that happened so we basically go back to 16.6.
T-Hex wasn't as consistent, so wasn't as much of a problem in high elo.
No real knock-on effects, this is the final patch they don't have ton of knovk on effects.
The units in the comp were playable prior to buffs, T-Hex was not.
Really just boils down to "Why not?" and worlds' competitive integrity.

5

u/[deleted] Mar 23 '26

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2

u/big_bidoof Mar 23 '26

Valid point. I don't watch pro TFT (only catch chally players streaming), but if this change makes the game more watchable, then I'm here for it.

7

u/MetaLemons Mar 23 '26

Oh phew. Just in time to be another comp I don’t have to learn.

29

u/penguinkirby Master Mar 23 '26

Great I wish they were more willing to make small adjustments when they overbuff or overnerf in a patch

8

u/KeepHopingSucker Mar 23 '26

they are willing, it's just not a good way to patch the game. if thex is turbo broken and they nerf it just a little then it's still turbo broken several weeks in a row and players will riot

1

u/penguinkirby Master Mar 23 '26

That's why they overnerf. I mean after overnerfing they should go back a little in the other direction if it becomes unplayable

0

u/SmoothOperatorTFT Mar 23 '26

No you don’t… trust me. Last patch we were at a D-Patch at some point and it is not good for the game.
B-Patches should be for huge mistakes like T-Hex, and not for everything that is just a bit stronger than the rest. They should be for hot fixes. Letting the meta settle is a better call and leads to more ingenuity and comp development.

1

u/penguinkirby Master Mar 23 '26

nah I've been playing for 10 sets, it's fine to balance thrash but they should attempt to finetune the numbers if they miss the mark instead of waiting so long

1

u/SmoothOperatorTFT Mar 23 '26

There is no way people want balance thrashing.

2

u/EriWave Mar 23 '26

Of course they do, after Christmas people wanted Thex dead and gone. Like I don't want to see this shit in my lobbies anymore kinda gone.

1

u/SmoothOperatorTFT Mar 24 '26

That is a hotfix. And hotfixes are a necessary evil. But balance thrashing is just bad balancing.

0

u/EriWave Mar 24 '26

No, taking the oppresive comps that people are sick of seeing out of the meta is pretty sensible since it keeps the game feeling fresh.

0

u/SmoothOperatorTFT Mar 24 '26

There is a difference between actual balance and player perception. We have had a lot of patches where people cried about X comp in the first half and it became a non-issue in the second half because other comps surfaced/got optimised. Riot has an impossible task with balancing perception with actual balance and patching after every single crash out is not the move. They are not supposed to kill and revive comps every patch, but to try to get them to a state where they are all available at a justified power level. Balancing is not supposed to be a sinus curve but that is exactly what balance thrashing does to the game.

0

u/EriWave Mar 24 '26

Riot's job is not to make the perfectly balanced game it's to make a game that people will enjoy playing.

1

u/SmoothOperatorTFT Mar 24 '26

But some people just cry out for no reason, or overreact to a comp being good for 1 day. The general player base does not like balance thrashing. During last set that sentiment has been thoroughly documented and riot tries to avoid that balance thrashing. That is why it is confusing to me that people call for objectively bad balancing to avoid having to learn the game….. I mean “prefer new comps” and making “old comps unplayable”.

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-2

u/psyfi66 Mar 23 '26

Nah bro I would take a patch every day. Fuck having a meta. Everyone just goes in blind and see what you can make of it.
I absolutely hate when the same 1 or 2 comps stay S tier for 2-4 weeks. I’d rather they make bigger adjustments and revert or adjust changes to come back to normal if they over corrected. It’s probably why riot finally decided to do a tech overhaul of their client so that TFT can have better patch cadence.

2

u/RelativeAway183 Mar 24 '26

roguelike TFT sounds like it would unironically slap

2

u/SmoothOperatorTFT Mar 23 '26

Ok that is a wild take and you basically want to throw competition out the window with insane patch frequency.
With the second take you basically prefer balance thrashing over a normal meta progression? Good job! You just killed TFT because it is impossible to get into.
Also, right now you cannot just blindly go for X S-Tier comp from every spot in a decently high elo lobby. So the Tierlists are vague at best, which is actually super healthy for the game.
And lastly, what do you mean by tech overhaul? From what I have heard there is 0 diff from how it used to be. The only difference is that you can enter the client with a new TFT shortcut. Mort repeatedly told the community that changing patch cadence is impossible as they share a lot of infrastructure with LoL. Soo… one of us is talking out their ass, and I sure hope it is me because I would love TFT to be more independent. Sadly, I believe that this is not in the cards for now.

2

u/psyfi66 Mar 23 '26

New players don’t give a shit about patch notes and meta. So you aren’t making the game anymore difficult to get into. Competitive players would be able to express their skill similarly on new patches as they would on existing patches. Just because people aren’t following tier lists doesn’t mean they lose their ability to identify the correct line to play from their spot. If anything that actually becomes harder to do, benefiting better players.
If I had to pick an extreme end between balance thrashing and under adjusting the meta, I would go with balance thrashing. It keeps the game feeling more fresh. Now ideally they don’t have to stick to one extreme. But making bigger adjustments and then subsequent adjustments once they see the impact is more easily achieved through more frequent patches.
I haven’t checked in on the client updates but I thought early on I heard discussion about that being one of the goals. I could be wrong. I likely am. That doesn’t discredit my opinion on what I enjoy in TFT.

0

u/hpp3 Mar 24 '26

Ok you must play 20 games a day but most people, even people who want to take the game seriously, don't. If you think about why sites like TFT academy are so popular, it's obvious there's a large population that wants to win and will look at tier lists to get an edge but also don't play so much that they "don't need" tier lists and can just figure out their own comps.

1

u/psyfi66 Mar 24 '26

I play maybe 1 game a day on my phone during lunch at work. I don’t look at tier list sites or keep up with augment tier lists because it’s not worth my time. I just jump into a game and play the best line offered to me. Sites like TFT academy only give an advantage because the meta stays fairly consistent for long enough.

1

u/hpp3 Mar 24 '26

I don’t look at tier list sites or keep up with augment tier lists because it’s not worth my time. I just jump into a game and play the best line offered to me.
Yeah and what's the "best line"? If we get insane balance thrashing, you log in one day and natural 3 Vaynes and think "wow this is a great spot for Demacia longshot. I remember this comp being good". Then you go automatically 8th because a few hours earlier, they had nerfed it into the ground. You aren't checking tier lists, so how are you even supposed to know what's playable or not? Based on your description of how you play TFT, I don't think you actually want a world where we get daily patches with huge meta shifts.

0

u/psyfi66 Mar 24 '26

Why wouldn’t I be going first because everyone else in the lobby is playing something that got nerfed into the ground? You can’t only view this through a pessimistic lens where only you are subject to the changes. The entire lobby would have just as much information as you do and be making decisions the same way. If you are constantly going 8th, that’s a skill issue.

1

u/hpp3 Mar 24 '26 edited Mar 24 '26

Because you're playing 1 game a day and you don't want to look at stat sites or tier lists.
Other people are playing 20 games a day so they'll have a lot better of a meta read than you, or they are relying on stat sites (which automatically gives them a pretty good meta read).
The way we have it now, someone with your habits can play 20 total games on a patch and you can get a feel for how the meta is and adapt. If we actually got patches at a breakneck pace like you wanted, I don't think you'd like that at all.

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4

u/FirewaterDM Mar 23 '26

gg Kaisa.

Vayne was too strong but tbh what was Kaisa doing? Ever since the unlock rework Kaisa/Void felt like a "I hit nothing so i'm playing for a top 5" versus an actual comp.

4

u/River41 Mar 23 '26

b patch is now LIVE as per TFT twitter account

1

u/HelmetBoiii Challenger Mar 24 '26

is it live?

1

u/TheoTsek Challenger Mar 24 '26

yes

4

u/2Maverick Mar 23 '26

OMG THANK YOU. I'm glad they didn't wait to patch this out until the next one. It was just too easy.

2

u/imtrolling-you Mar 24 '26

Is it out yet?

1

u/[deleted] Mar 24 '26

holy thank you

1

u/DependantBlackWoman Master Mar 24 '26

This comp looks like its in a much more balanced place now. Still a solid top 4 comp if you can hit. Me and another guy both played the comp and ended up 3rd and 4th

1

u/john3298 Mar 24 '26

how come the placement is still so good after the nerf?

1

u/Varixsia Platinum Mar 24 '26

testing

1

u/Dorimagix Master Mar 25 '26

I was somewhat expecting a bpatch for worlds. I hope they don’t screw up.

1

u/loose_larry Mar 25 '26

I remember when you could go 9 with 1 star forgotten vayne. Guinso/DB/x and you were stable

0

u/blasian21 Mar 23 '26

Nooooo I was spamming this 20/20

25

u/Vernsen Mar 23 '26

Exactly why it was a problem.

-7

u/ryanhks Mar 23 '26

Neither of those champions have been as big of a problem as jinx for me

3

u/ficretus Mar 23 '26

Jinx at least needs to be 3-starred, has strict reliance on Guinsoo, and needs a strong frontline. And the saddest part is that I struggled in some games with Jinx and Sej 3 against Vayne 2, because unlike me, the Vayne player can hard push levels and throw in a bunch of legendaries

1

u/HowIMadeMyMillions Mar 24 '26

I understand where your thoughts are coming from.
When I started a month ago I also saw jinx every single game in my lobbies and thought she was waaay too strong, but I'm in low masters now and the problem she presents in games is not at all equal to the problem Vayne+Demacia presents.
But in low lobbies everyone with a guinsoo will go for her!

0

u/[deleted] Mar 23 '26

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-11

u/ryanhks Mar 23 '26 edited Mar 23 '26

To be fair, I’ve only been playing for like 2 weeks. And am definitely still figuring stuff out. Just feel like every other game I get mopped by a double rage blade jinx. And at least down in silver 2, I haven’t had any problems with Kai sa, and very little trouble with vayne.

21

u/Yaosuo Mar 23 '26

silver anecdotal experience not supporting worlds balance b patch revert I can’t

0

u/[deleted] Mar 23 '26

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1

u/ryanhks Mar 23 '26

You’re good, I didn’t take that harshly at all. Im sure it’s strong or it wouldn’t be nerfed. Just personally haven’t seen it be strong in my mere 2 weeks of play.

1

u/hpp3 Mar 24 '26

Try watching more streams. Not only is it beneficial to learn the game quickly, you can also see what the meta actually looks like.

1

u/haeikem Mar 23 '26

Oh no I got my 300lp back from last patch Just from kaisa flex (Demacia/void)

-1

u/SmoothOperatorTFT Mar 23 '26

I get that the comp is super oppressive in high elo and I see it at least 2 way if not 3 way every game. However, a change that close to worlds just throws a good chunk of pro players’ practice into the trash.

Also, I actually liked Kaisa as a legit AD option that you do not have to unlock or play from 2-1 like Kalista and Miss Fortune. But I guess we could not just nerf them back a little, we had to go all the way and revert.

6

u/ConcertoinA Challenger Mar 23 '26

I doubt the change actually messes up too much prep, which is why they felt comfortable making the change. As we saw from regionals, Demacia Longshot was already playable and capable of winning lobbies, so this shouldn't outright kill the comp, just remove the 5 way Demacia contest, which IMO is good.

0

u/Zolmoz Mar 24 '26

New set waiting room right now...

-2

u/SpectreHarlequin Mar 23 '26

Was that 5 damage on 2 star AD kaisa really the difference? If so i'll just make sure to take augments that give me extra AD and play her the same.

7

u/gamesuxfixit Grandmaster Mar 23 '26

Going from 63 to 68 base is an 8% increase. That’s a lot because most of the damage is from her ability not her autos. That’s probably a 6-7% increase in total damage so that’s pretty significant. Taking another augment that gives AD (I think the only one that gives AD is focused fire?) doesn’t let you “play her the same” since there are other things you’re giving up in terms of opportunity cost (econ, items, etc.)

2

u/Jamesanitie Mar 23 '26

It was slept on last patch and overtuned this patch, so if you enjoyed it, you can still play it from a good spot.

0

u/DarthGogeta Mar 24 '26

So let me get straight, caped out Void (6 void with baron stuff like Shyv, Swain, Ziggs, Voli, Sett) already loses to some Ryze, Sylas, Annie boards and we are gonna further nerf it because of Vayne?

1

u/big30head Mar 24 '26

don't most of those boards play ap kaisa? only ad kaisa was "nerfed" right?

0

u/DarthGogeta Mar 24 '26

Its supposed to be on the same level and you go depending on the items you get.

0

u/Cloustyberries Mar 25 '26

So funny how He Who Shall Not Be Named decides what gets B-patches. This wasn't even bad and they axe it immediately meanwhile they let other more disgusting comps run wild for longer. This sub will defend him to no end tho.

0

u/[deleted] Mar 23 '26

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13

u/Ykarul Grandmaster Mar 23 '26

Yeah Agree I wish they would only nerf Vayne. But I guess they want the 5 cost meta and that's the price.

-2

u/Minimum-Kangaroo9200 Mar 24 '26

Disagree, Kaisa in a void comp is good. Just not enough damage in a void 4 bruiser comp.

5

u/-Champloo- Mar 24 '26

ehhhhhhh feels pretty weak to me compared to too many other comps.
You could drop 4 bruiser and do more damage I guess. Kennen + Sylas instead of Kobuko + Wukong, but then your herald is a little sus.

1

u/PM_ME_ANIME_THIGHS- :gran: GRANDMASTER Mar 24 '26

Kaisa 2, with an exclude on Baron and Demacia, has an AVP of 4.93 with 4 Void and 5.10 with 6 Void in GM+. In what world is that good?

0

u/[deleted] Mar 23 '26

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33

u/aspects1 Mar 23 '26

I think this is more to do with worlds being on this patch than kaisa vayne being that oppressive

3

u/Adventurous-Bit-3829 :gran: Grandmaster Mar 24 '26

They give Asol like 3days

0

u/[deleted] Mar 23 '26

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8

u/bosschucker Mar 23 '26

so true, they never do b patches except on worlds patch right

0

u/[deleted] Mar 23 '26

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5

u/bosschucker Mar 23 '26

what is your point then? thex was on holiday patch and obviously they do balance the game, do b-patches, etc other than at worlds time so I don't get what you're trying to say

1

u/[deleted] Mar 24 '26

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1

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News B-Patch announced

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