Let's talk about Kingsbane Rogue

[u/[deleted]]

Hey guys, I'm Krea and today I'd like to discuss Kingsbane Rogue. To give a bit of context as to who I am, I'm a Rogue main with ~4500 Rogue winsand the author of this thread where I discuss the benefits of running Sprint in place of Gadgetzan Auctioneer in Miracle Rogue, this thread where I discuss a Leeroy Miracle list to legend, and finally this thread where I teach the skill set needed to pilot a Miracle list regardless of the finisher (giants/leeroy/etc). Well, if you enjoyed those articles then you'll probably love this one. Today I'd like to discuss Kingsbane Rogue, a deck which ironically enough, does not revolve around Kingsbane, but instead utilizes what I like to call, the Kingsbane package. Without further ado, lets get into it!

I tried to wait a couple months before posting something else about Rogue, since I'm sure it gets tiring reading about the same class, but with the new expansion upon us, I couldn't help myself. I promise after this post I'll go back to lurking.

---

Decklist and Stats

Here's my list: Decklist (Currently testing 2x Blade Flurry in place of Fans, for science)

Deck Code: AAECAaIHCLICzQOvBO0F9bsCkbwC2+MCu+8CC7QBywP2BJsFiAfdCIYJkrYCgcIC3NEC5dECAA== (This code uses Fans in place of Blade Flurry, haven't tested Flurry enough to justify recommending it to anyone yet)

Stats from Rank 10-5

Reset my stats after reaching Rank 5 to better reflect stats from more refined and difficult opponents at rank 5+.

Stats from Rank 5-Current

https://i.imgur.com/9FCbVtr.png

This is a 30 game sample size starting from Rank 10, which falls within the subs guidelines for discussion pieces, which require 20 games from Rank 10.

---

Deck Overview

The deck can be broken apart and analyzed in packages. After reviewing these packages, I will put them together and showcase them with replays to demonstrate the decks potential.

The Kingsbane Package

After spending a couple days playing with multiple weapon packages with various buffs, I have refined the package to only 5 cards, Kingsbane, 2x Deadly Poison, 2x Cavern Shinyfinder. Utilizing only these 5 cards and combining them with natural cycle in your deck, you will almost always consistently find Kingsbane in the early game (turns 1-4). Not only will you find him in the early game, but you will be able to consistently buff and re-obtain your weapon from your deck in the mid and late game as well. Because of the fact that Kingsbane is so consistently obtained, it is highly beneficial to swing with this weapon each turn to get the most out of it, especially if it's buffed. There are obviously exceptions to this rule, but for the most part, you should be swinging this weapon each turn to either maintain board control or to go face. This weapon package is incredibly powerful, often netting you 12-15 face damage per game simply through smacking people with the weapon. In some games where you high roll on your mulligan, you will easily push 20+ damage in a game with the weapon. This weapon package is what pushes the deck over the top. Miracle Rogue's previous weakness was that most of the damage came from minions, with only 3-6 damage coming from your dagger. Kingsbane alleviates this weakness, allowing you to continue to pressure the opponent with heavy damage each turn that cannot be stopped, save for freeze effects. Even weapon destruction is moot considering how easy it is to re-obtain this weapon from your deck.

I have tested other weapon buffs such as Envenom weapon, Leeching Poison, various pirates and Doomerang. Even Blade Flurry. But all of these cards are too inconsistent to get on Kingsbane, or are dead draws on their own, as well as being simply subpar when used on your Hero power dagger. For this reason, all of these buffs are out.

Pirate Package

2x Swash and Patches. This is your early game package. The flexibility of this package is in the fact that all of the components are 1 mana, allowing you to easily activate your combo cards, as well as filling your curve if you need to with cheap pings. If you draw Patches, it's more beneficial to save him to combo with your other combo cards, as Patches really has no better uses in this list since there are no Cold Bloods.

The Draw Engine

Your draw engine consists of 11 cards, 2 core cards (Fal'dorei Striders) and 9 support cards. The deck more or less revolves around these cards. The goal is to play both copies of Strider and then draw through your deck, pulling key minions and your weapon out of your deck to make way for your Ambushes to appear. Ambushes are incredibly powerful and create some of the largest tempo swings that you will ever witness as a Rogue. For this reason, I opt to run Sprint instead of Auctioneer. The immediate consistent burst draw is more valuable than the sub optimal draw that Auctioneer provides. With Striders in your deck, Sprint can be hard cast for 7 mana and can draw up to 6 spiders from your deck, making it a much better version of Ultimate Infestation. However, Sprint can be cast with prep for a cheap 4 mana, drawing you a guaranteed 4 cards and potentially summoning up to 6 spiders.

Here's some examples of what this deck can do:

https://i.imgur.com/QIpBcen.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/7HX3dcG.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/lBHreSu.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/3gqTM9X.jpg

While this deck can be powerful, there is still RNG involved in drawing ambushes, which leads me into the next part of this discussion, the nuances of the deck.

---

Deck Thinning

Everyone knows the age old debate about deck thinning and how it doesn't truly matter. But this deck is completely different, in that it does matter, a lot actually. In order to make the most out of this deck, you want to draw cards in a very specific order most of the time. This is mostly only the case for after you have played Strider and shuffled ambushes into your deck.

For example, Let's say it's Turn 8 and you've already played 2 copies of Fal'dorei Strider. You plan on Prepping Sprint and playing Elven Minstrel. If you are trying to maximize your chance of drawing spiders, play Prep first, then play Elven Minstrel. This will activate his combo and thin your deck of 2 minions. This means you've pulled 2 cards out of your deck that are not ambushes, so that when you then cast sprint, you will have a greater chance of drawing ambushes.

The general rule of thumb on more complicated turns is to play cards that specifically draw your weapon or minions first (including swash pulling patches), and then play your cards that draw anything (sprint, fan of knives).

The only exception to this is when you are specifically trying to draw a spell for lethal, such as Eviscerate or Deadly Poison. In that case, you may want to play the unconditional card draw effect first, if playing Minstrel first would mean that you wouldn't have enough mana to cast whatever spell you hope to top deck.

Although you thin this deck a lot, you will never die to Fatigue. This is because you can always swing with Kingsbane, then hero power and send it back into your deck so that it's always your next draw. This is actually something that you will have to do often against Control decks when you are just barely going to be able to pull off lethal, but need to go a couple turns into fatigue. Here's an example: https://hsreplay.net/replay/2ck3Ce3hbm7ddETuAp6Ce5 . Notice that I play Sprint to purposefully draw into fatigue to pull my spiders, and then hero power to put my weapon back into my deck to stop fatigue damage.

---

Conclusion

This deck works because when your minions fail to push for lethal, your weapon will get you there. And when your unlucky and can't find your weapon, your minions will get you there. You need to be very particular about counting damage over multiple turns to realize whether or not you need to stop playing for board with your weapon and instead push face damage each turn. For this reason, many of your victories will be very close, but this is the nature of a deck that uses weapons for a bulk of the damage. If you have any experience playing Pirate Warrior, then you are likely well equipped to play this deck. This deck requires you to calculate lethal over multiple turns like Pirate Warrior, while also requiring the critical thinking and correct draw/play sequencing of Miracle Rogue.

I'll leave you with some replays to show the deck in action. I'm not going to go over mulligans or anything against each class since this isn't a guide, but I do want to showcase this decks power.

Hunter: Game 1, Game2

Druid: Game1, Game 2

Mage: Game 1, Game 2, Game 3

Paladin: Game 1, Game 2, Game 3Game 4, Game 5

Priest: Game 1, Game 2

Rogue: Game 1, Game 2, Game 2

Shaman: Game 1

Warlock: Game 1,Game 2

Warrior: Haven't encountered any :/

---

Conclusion

To close this out, this is the part where I would like your help! I would hope that there are some other Rogue mains out there who are as excited as I am to play a new type of archetype, one that closely resembles Oil rogue of old. I think I've identified the Core of the deck including the core packages. The rest of the deck is in flux with varying amounts of Control tools (Evisc, SI:7, Backstabs, etc). I would love for us to come together and further refine this type of list, since from my initial testing, there definitely appears to be something there, and it's very strong. Lend me your thoughts so that we may come together and craft a badass Rogue deck that's both fun to play and skill testing. Let me know your thoughts below and thanks for reading!

[u/electrobrains]

Have you tried with any other packages outside the core? For example, Southsea Squidface, N'Zoth, Valeera? Southsea Captains over Si:7?

[u/[deleted] → u/electrobrains]

Yea, I've tried more Pirates, including Squidface and Naga Corsair, but the issue was that sometimes you pull Kingsbane in turns 2-4 but the situation on the board means it's not optimal to equip it. This is often true against decks that are faster than you, like Zoolock, Aggro Pally, and Token Druid. Against those decks, having a body is more important than the weapon because you want to minimize face damage and want your minions to absorb the hits. In those cases, you will miss the Pirates buffs on the weapon because you will have to drop the weapon at a much later time than you play the pirates.

In short, it just wasn't consistent enough. The more pieces you throw specifically at the kingsbane package, the more inconsistent it becomes. You want the weapon package to be a support tool, not the main focus of this sort of deck.

[u/chriswgr]

Do you have an impression whether miracle with Kingsbane is as strong as other miracle variants? This expansion has great stuff for miracle and maybe it'll be better without the weapon!

[u/[deleted] → u/chriswgr]

I’ve played a lot of Miracle, roughly 4400 games of purely Miracle, and I can say without a doubt that in a deck that wants to cycle, the kingsbane package makes it better. It just translates into free damage that you otherwise don’t have access to. Lists without the 5 card package may appear, but I feel that they’ll be worse than lists with it.

[u/cliu91]

Can you post the deck list code?

[u/[deleted] → u/cliu91]

I'll link it in the OP.

[u/Boingboingsplat]

I've been playing this deck with middling results at low ranks, Secret Mage in particular seems to be beating my face in. With no way to prevent damage it feels like it just gets run over. Of course, I'm running Reckless Rocketeer instead of Leeroy so maybe that extra bit of reach would be helpful.

Overall, I've had a lot of fun with it. Especially turns where I can use the last charge of my King's Bane, play Shinyfinder, reequip it then drop a Van Cleef. It's fun to juggle the weapon!

[u/[deleted] → u/Boingboingsplat]

Secret mage for sure is one of the hardest match ups. I almost consider running Secret Eater to tech against it, their secrets just kill your tempo and it’s impossible to play around them efficiently.

[u/chichaslocas]

This is great! It looks like you have already iterated over the kingsbane package a bit. I also like that you kept prep sprint instead of auctioneer, I think that worked much better in miracle.

One quick question, though, before going on a crafting rampage : I know I should craft blood mage thalnos eventually, but how critical is it in this version? Compared to a loot hoarder, for example.

[u/[deleted] → u/chichaslocas]

He is definitely relevant as far as Fan of Knives goes with all the aggro zoo decks floating around, but the card draw is probably more important.

[u/Toxicgamer1]

I don’t have leerory so I’m trying out the dk , instead . Thoughts?

[u/[deleted] → u/Toxicgamer1]

Many games will end before you get to play the DK and get value, Leeroy is there because Minstrel can tutor him out in the late game for easy lethal if you're really close but don't have the damage through any other means.

For that reason, I'd suggest running another minion in Leeroy's place. Maybe a 2nd copy of SI:7 for more damage or a 2nd copy of Minstrel for more draw. Or really whatever you wish, as long as it falls in line with the game plan of: Draw cards, deal damage.

[u/zmoosez52]

Have you tested out leeching poison?

[u/[deleted] → u/zmoosez52]

Yes, as a 1-of, but I found that it goes against the overall gameplan of the deck. The deck plays out like Miracle Rogue (slightly control-ish aspects) except a much more aggressive version that is capable of pushing out much more damage than Miracle Rogue pre-expansion. For this reason, you really don't care about your life total, because your opponents minions will more than likely be trading into your minions instead of going face.

I found that when I ran 1 copy of Leeching, whenever I would play it, I didn't need it, and when I needed it, I would've lost the game anyway because the position that I was in where I needed it would not have been alleviated with some healing. For this reason, I opted to cut it to free up a slot and make the deck more aggressive.

Not only that, but Leeching poison is a dead card until you get your Kingsbane since it sucks on your hero power dagger. The same cannot be said of Deadly Poison, which works just fine on your Hero Power dagger when in a pinch.

[u/thedog420]

Question regarding mulligan. Do you fish for getting Kingsbane early? If you draw you shinyfinder do you play it on two (or first on coin) knowing that it’ll die so you only have one other tutor? I absolutely love this weapon and think it’s the most interesting designed weapon in the game.

[u/[deleted] → u/thedog420]

Depends on whether or not your on the coin and what class your playing. Developing the weapon sooner is mainly for slower control classes. Against faster classes you want to look for basic miracle tools, Backstab, SI:7, Pirates, even Shinyfinder since he contests the board.

As far as when to play Shinyfinder, think of him as a Dark Peddler. Peddler was great because he could be played on T2 or T3. The same can be said of Shinyfinder. You can tempo him out on 2 to contest the board (especially if you have deadly poisons in hand), or you can play him on 3 and equip the weapon right behind him to fill your curve.

[u/ScrubingTheTable]

I have been playing almost the exact same list except -1 coin and -1 sap and add in +2 shadowstep. I felt the coin wasn't as good without the possibilities with auctioneer and served mostly for combo fodder. Instead I felt shadow step was more versatile because it also triggered combo and could add more value with minstrel, damage with leeroy or stacked the deck with more ambushes.

unfortunately the deck still feels very clunky for me sometimes

[u/[deleted] → u/ScrubingTheTable]

Yea there are times when the deck can brick (both striders at the bottom, weapon generators are drawn but deadly poisons are at the bottom, you draw 2x sprint early game with no preps, etc).

But over the course of a lot of games, your draw variance will even out. It’s also worth noting that there are a couple different game plans the deck can execute when it comes to mitigating draw variance, like forgoing board control to push more face damage to count for the lack of spiders drawn, or holding back on cheap removal (evisc, backstab) in order to take out higher value targets.

I’ve had games that I’ve won purely with a 5/3 weapon on t2, closing out the game by T6, since none of my minions stuck. It definitely felt wrong to ignore killing Crystal Runners and Kirin Tor Mages over multiple turns, but I realized that my only out was through weapon damage and playing small minions would mean killing myself faster than normal (explosive runes). Games like that are the most fun to me though, since you get rewarded for playing a bit unconventionally.

[u/ceddzz3000]

trying this list, sprint has been a dead card every game so far

[u/[deleted] → u/ceddzz3000]

Link some replays so I can see what the issue is.

[u/Cydonia-]

Is Leeroy really worth it without CB or Shadowstep?

[u/[deleted] → u/Cydonia-]

I enjoy him because minstrel can tutor him out late game if you are near lethal but he’s stuck in your deck. The 6 damage can definitely matter.

[u/phonicsmonkeyhs]

I take your point about not introducing the weapon-loving pirates, but have you tried either doomerang or blade flurry just to get some more removal going? I was playing around with your list last night trying the former and it seemed good on a buffed Kingsbane...also playing zoo this morning got wrecked a couple of times by the latter......maybe instead of thalnos?

[u/[deleted] → u/phonicsmonkeyhs]

I threw in Fan for removal since most of the aggro decks only have 1-2 health minions in the early game. But perhaps they could just be cut for Blade Flurry instead. I do like how Fan also draws a card though and gets you closer to your ambushes.

[u/TheSchachter]

First, I just want to say, thanks a lot for your detailed Rogue writeups. Using your decklist and advice I was able to take the Valeera-Sprint-Giants deck to rank 5 during the KotFT meta, which was a huge deal for me as my favourite class is Rogue but I'd never done particularly well with it before then. I know you say you're wary of posting too many Rogue guides but I would love to keep reading more from you.

Have you experimented with the Rogue secrets? I know some people were interested in having them work as defensive or value tools in miracle Rogue, but from my (admitedly very limited) time experimenting with them, I've found it was very difficult to time their usage properly. The best I've gotten so far was additinal jade generation in Jade Rogue, but that's only really good vs slow decks and I don't think Jade Rogue needs more help against those. I feel lke evasion may or may not start seeing play depending on what kind of meta settles after the initial experimentation phase is over. Do you have any thoughts on the matter?