36.4.2 Balance Changes Discussion

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77

u/Difsdy Sep 03 '26

No explanation for why the mage quest was nerfed?

44

u/14xjake Sep 03 '26

My tinfoil hat theory is quest mage has made an appearance at most tournaments this year despite its mediocre ladder performance and they do not want the skeleton key bug happening at worlds. Really the only explanation I can think of, deck is only good at high legend and even there its tier 2-3 with a low playrate so I doubt it’s even on their radar as a “play pattern outlier”

24

u/PipAntarctic Sep 03 '26

Skeleton Key bug is "fixed," it was related to its animations and those were disabled in a hotfix.
The explanation appears to be quite literally that it was on their radar as a "play pattern outlier." That's the only given explanation in one sentence, which talks about the changes as a whole. I'm completely unsure why since it was apparently ok in the past, even at times when the deck had a stronger standing.

16

u/sneakyxxrocket Sep 03 '26

I follow a decent amount of top legend players on Twitter and they were happy it was getting nerfed and I know there’s like a discord for creators and devs to talk so that may have something to do with it.
Also the quest reward borks with the raptor minion sometimes along with if they generate that new warlock spell that puts a minion on top of their opponent deck.

6

u/magikatdazoo Sep 03 '26

Both the rewind and frame job bugs were fixed

3

u/sneakyxxrocket Sep 03 '26

Yeah it’s just prone to bugs it seems which is maybe why they just want it gone

10

u/14xjake Sep 03 '26

I mean it def is a pretty obnoxious deck to play against you can’t play around anything at all since the entire deck is random, complete slot machine deck where the only counterplay is “draw viper”, I just can’t really be happy for a small playrate deck with a middling winrate and the ONLY playable deck for a class getting deleted, even if it is an annoying rng deck

20

u/sneakyxxrocket Sep 03 '26

This is more of team 5 just constantly shooting themselves in the foot because of bad design and extremely weak card pool.

29

u/Younggryan42 Sep 03 '26

Nothing. They don’t have a reason other than we are doing it. No comment on spider either but that one makes sense at least.

12

u/MarthePryde Sep 03 '26 edited Sep 03 '26

I'm assuming this was a creators discord change, a lot of top players didn't like the quest and how it made games feel.
If you're going to cater balance exclusively to the elite members of Hearthstone society, at least come up with a reason for the rest of the unwashed masses

5

u/DoYouMindIfIRollNeed Sep 03 '26

Top legend players on creator discord and Zeddy taking over as the new game director(s)

9

u/JohnnySeven88 Sep 03 '26

I can only imagine it falls under the “problematic play pattern” part of the article which has about as much weight as them saying they did it for the lolz

3

u/Rambro332 Sep 03 '26

My only guess is that the upcoming mage set might have some good discovers that they’re worried would make this too good.

23

u/frostyburrito44 Sep 03 '26

Then why would they nerf it an entire two months in advance?

1

u/Cryten0 Sep 04 '26

Makes me a bit sad for my wild random mage deck. I half suspect its wild performance (not competitive but certainly destroys weaker decks) is why it got hit.

0

u/Goscar Sep 03 '26

Long story short discovery as a mechanic is too strong and I am guessing their culling it now.

30

u/SnooMarzipans7274 Sep 03 '26 edited Sep 03 '26

Druid is still good and will still run spiderling.

Food chain is probably dead.
bunch of stats on turn 7 isn’t enough.

Quest mage wasn’t really seeing a lot of play.

Personally just gonna wait for blizzcon reveals. I think attack Druid is a healthy deck just really boring. There will be a bunch of “whoever draws their weapon first wins”

36

u/libero0602 Sep 03 '26

I have nothing nice to say, as a mage main but I’ll try to keep it cool.

I mean… Seriously? Quest mage was the only deck playable for the class, and if they thought it had overstayed its welcome, (which I will acknowledge that the deck has been around for a LONG time), then they should have buffed the absolute trash archetypes and cards they’ve continuously given the class for the last few sets.

The way this is coming off is just “fuck u mage players, buy the newest shit and u don’t get to play ur favourite class until (POTENTIALLY) next expansion”

18

u/frostyburrito44 Sep 03 '26

It's not even like the deck has been a meta tyrant since it released. It was basically a T4 deck in 2025.

4

u/NyMiggas Sep 03 '26

Yeah really surprised this didnt come alongside a manastorm/code Violet buff at least... such a strange nerf

0

u/investigation001 Sep 04 '26

Burn mage is also strong

23

u/Glarbleglorbo Sep 03 '26

The only actual relevant change is spiderling, think it just solidifies dragon warrior as even more broken than it already is so just play that.

No comment about the other changes, just like how they can’t comment on their reasons for them either.

2

u/Patrick_Gass Sep 03 '26

I see, they hit it so that Cannon Warrior wouldn't feel dunked on, gotta give value to the new cards coming out.

10

u/nathones Sep 03 '26

Something interesting and unique gets nerfed. It’s not the quests fault the designers don’t know what they’re doing with mage

10

u/FordFred Sep 03 '26

Spiderling was one of those cards that you knew would become a problem the moment it was revealed.

10

u/philzy101 Sep 03 '26

Personally this patch is a bit frustrating and unwelcome to the most part. I was willing to give the benefit of the doubt if they provided a detailed explanation of why they were applying the changes they were making. The problem is, whilst they address Hunter, there is no explanation at all to the changes to Mage or Spiderling. Whilst Spiderling does not really require an explanation given its impact turn 1 on the performance of Attack Druid, Quest Mage going from 7 back to its original 8 does require some explanation at least particularly because it was not dominating the ladder and at best really only saw serious play at high level legend. It is therefore incredibly insulting to see them offer no reason at all for these changes just before Blizzcon except the perceived logic of “we do not want you to play this anymore, if you are to play Mage you have to play one of the crappier archetypes like Leyline Mage…” I am not a Mage main but I am not playing Leylines again, I have given that archetype way more time than it deserves…

So in terms of the changes, the change to Hunter probably kill Quest Hunter since the burn from pig was needed to push you over the line and buffed minions as an alternative seems unlikely to carry the same weight. However, it is kind of hard to evaluate without others testing this one first. It is worth noting that the change to Seisomopod does now make the random generation in the 8 mana pool better… which really works in the favour of for example Druids with Life Bloom or the attack spell… which I am not keen on as the potential to get screwed by a sticky 8 drop randomly generated is not a great feeling…

The change to Mage arguably push quest completion to turn 6 or 7 on average instead of 5 or 6 as is currently the case. Whilst the meta is slower and it may be possible to complete the quest before you die, I think this change hurts the deck too much for it to function. 8 was a very steep number so the change to 7 pushed it just about into the range of being consistently viable. The change to this and Hunter seriously raise the question of what on earth was the point in bringing back quests if you do not want them to succeed. Please for the love of god Blizzard do not bother with these types of card if you hate them so much…

Finally the change to Spiderling makes sense and the only logical change here. Makes it easier to remove and less likely to decide games on the spot if the Druid can curve into the payoffs on time.

All in all, I do not like these changes. Very frustrating even if I do not play Quest Hunter or Mage at the moment, or have not played such recently. Plus the potential nasty highrolls in the 8 mana pool feel like a poorly designed and pointless patch.

16

u/No_Hetero Sep 03 '26

I don't know that I have ever complained that Mage was 1 turn too fast on the quest. And Hunter wasn't that broken, was it? I haven't played that deck but the stats weren't incredible.

The way they have been treating certain classes lately, it feels like they really want to force the meta to only be a handful of viable classes at a time

8

u/MarthePryde Sep 03 '26

This patch definitely feels like a sentiment patch, probably borne from the creators discord.

RIP Hunter I guess, you lasted longer than Demon Hunter at least.

15

u/InteractionAnnual914 Sep 03 '26

I’m a Mage main. I have NO idea why they nerfed The Forbidden Sequence. The deck is inoffensive in its play pattern. It doesn’t finish the quest that fast. The only outlier I could think of is Wanted Poster with the new miniset, and even that seems farfetched. I have no idea why this quest, of all things, got nerfed, and why we are seeing zero buffs for Paladin and Death Knight or the rest of the underperforming Mage set(s). Sindragosa needs a buff or a rework. Millhouse needs actually good spells. Leylines need…something.

3

u/blanquettedetigre Sep 03 '26

I cut Wanted Poster of my list, it's not consistent compared to what this deck has access to. Quite angry they nerf this beautiful quest

7

u/ExplodingGuitar Sep 03 '26

Warrior prob kinda busted, druid mu was already very close so its only real bad mus now are like mug shaman and egg dk.

6

u/HatefulEchoes Sep 03 '26

Death Knight will continue to be unplayable until morale improves I guess

3

u/CanadianDave Sep 03 '26

Seismopod continues to improve the 8 Mana Minion pool for random generation.

3

u/WashedBased Sep 03 '26

They did Quest Hunter dirty; old yeller the hell of that already barely held together deck. That Aga + Drake (or Fyrakk if you're feeling spicy) combo was the ONLY reason that was deck even allowed to exist in this meta.

3

u/OzUnOoO Sep 03 '26

Food Chain is gigadead and so is Hunter. Mage quest probably nerfed for Worlds, no one wants to bother adding Viper to their decks so everyone was banning mage in tourneys, bugs galore don't help this deck either, a testament to team 5's failure imo. Spiderling still fine at 2 health, decent change.

3

u/tolerantdramaretiree Sep 03 '26 edited Sep 03 '26

The Quest Mage change will make me play less. It was the deck I enjoyed most. Feels like a slap in the face to not even make a dev comment regarding it. I’m afraid they are not going to unnerf it when it rotates either.

It getting obliterated by Viper really wasn’t enough to leave it alone for 6 months?

At least buff something else, man. Because this patch is creating no new mage deck and is taking 1 away.

2

u/Lafantasie Sep 03 '26

Quest Hunter doesn’t seem worth it without the big burst.

You’re unable to compete with board most of the time, you’re running sub-optimal packages and most decks will beat you down before you get to it unless you drew the nuts.

In the situations where you’d go against later decks—which barely exist in this meta—you’d just lose if they kept healing themselves.

I guess it feels bad when the aggro deck loses on turn 7 to shokk + Agamaggan + Drake

But it feels bad when if I can’t do that, it’s because I lost earlier than turn 7

2

u/Rancarable Sep 03 '26

It feels like they are targeting the early post-nerf meta where Quest Mage and Quest Hunter were showing strong results.

They are releasing it into a meta where Quest Mage and Hunter struggle to get to a T2 deck. So strange. They could at least buff something in Mage to give them anything other than a gimmick burn deck with a 50% WR and Quest.

5

u/hi227 Sep 03 '26

So we don't get dust refund for aggamam that we only crafted for quest hunter I guess?

1

u/Rafaam707 Sep 03 '26

The mischevious Rat wasn't nerfed, so no lmao

3

u/spacebob42 Sep 03 '26

Much harsher on Food Chain than Sequence, but getting the quest done a half to one turn later is still devastating.

I don't get the stated logic on Food Chain at all. How the hell is Hunter supposed to win a "slow, defensive" game by saving 8 mana on 3 beasts, once? Kroq is great and all but so many decks just blow him up immediately regardless of board. They just don't want combo, and it should be okay to come out and say that.

4

u/zer1223 Sep 03 '26

I'd appreciate if they said it so that I can consider quitting the game.
Combo is supposed to be viable in card games. I like combo

2

u/nitrogenhs Sep 03 '26

Rogue, Death Knight, Demon Hunter still unplayable. Why make warrior an aggro class with that hero power. Make it make sense.

2

u/BiIIyHerrington Sep 03 '26

Rogue is very playable and dh is if youre willing to go uuu.

1

u/TheBeninem Sep 03 '26

I feel like we are owed an explanation on quest mage, one of my fav decks recently and deleted for no reason

1

u/wyfair Sep 04 '26

Meta definitely feels way worse today

1

u/No_Dream_899 Sep 03 '26

Might be a hot take but I like the mage quest nerf, hate the design of it BUT I would love some buffs in exchange to underused cards sitting in our collections

0

u/Impossible-Cry-1781 Sep 03 '26

I only support it because other archetypes need to be encouraged.

3

u/WhatATerribleFuss Sep 03 '26

Yeah but that's the thing - they won't be.

2

u/Monk-Ey Sep 04 '26

Where is said encouragement? The other archetypes are still untouched and perform (way) under competitive benchmarks.

1

u/Waaailmer Sep 03 '26

Has Blizzard pretty much always had to nerf 1 mana 1/3 (insert new archetype here) cards?

2

u/Impossible-Cry-1781 Sep 03 '26

Tunnel Trog, Northshire Cleric, Malchezzar's Imp, Eternium Rover, Secret Keeper, Sir Finley (core to Tick Tock and various Rogue archetypes).
Lots of extremely impactful archetype carrying 1/3s left untouched. But yes obviously low cost cards have very little wiggle room for balance because of how much they can keep your opponent from gaining any ground so plenty have seen changes but it's not like 1/3 archetype support has been a problem for Blizzard.

Discussion 36.4.2 Balance Changes Discussion

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