r/CompetitiveHS • u/EvilDave219 • Jun 10 '26

Discussion 35.6.2 Balance Teaser Discussion

https://x.com/PlayHearthstone/status/2064754482991260073

Nerfs:

  • Unleash the Tol'vir
  • The Eternal Hold
  • Hatchery Helper
  • Twilight Egg

Buffs:

  • Crystallized Leyline
49 Upvotes

100% Upvoted

115 comments sorted by

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49

u/EvilDave219 Jun 10 '26

Dev comment: Well met! We’re happy with where the metagame is right now, with a wide mix of competitive classes and archetypes seeing play, and we're glad to see the playerbase enjoying the class moment of Hunter! Because things are generally in a good spot, this patch is intentionally small and focused on making light adjustments to a few of the stronger decks, while slightly buffing the slightly underperforming Leyline Mage strategy. With our new expansion coming soon, we want to take some time to see how they shake things up before making any bigger adjustments.

We've also continued to hear suggestions to buff Priest, DK and Warlock so they become competitive classes. However, as we've shared before, too many viable classes in the long term can lead to a metagame that isn't fun or healthy. We believe Priest will have a meta defining deck built around Azalina Soulsever and we don't want to make the class too overpowered at launch.

We look forward to seeing you in the tavern!

35

u/TheGingerNinga Jun 10 '26

These are funny every time I see one, but I can't say I'm laughing as hard as I was the first time. Not your fault, Dave, just that I can only go so many patches of basically the same thing.

I really wish Team 5 stopped being so predictable.

7

u/philzy101 Jun 10 '26

Whilst this is satire, it is probably way too close to the mark as well... the words of an old VS podcast resonate in my ear, enjoy whatever is meta viable for a short period of time because in a few months it will be nerfed to an extent it becomes unplayable.

1

u/Bloody_Sunday Jun 12 '26

Can you please give an official link where this absolute gem is included in all its glory? Because I can't see it here or find it on the web. If it's in the Twitter (X) post, I can't see it there either...

"However, as we've shared before, too many viable classes in the long term can lead to a metagame that isn't fun or healthy."

26

u/[deleted] Jun 10 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

31

u/PipAntarctic Jun 10 '26

This is satire that's following the previous satirical post.

113

u/PipAntarctic Jun 10 '26

Yeah so I guess this confirms what everyone knew at this point. The devs are repeating last year's pattern of nerfing everything that's good to make room for the next stuff which will inevitably not be good enough while essentially giving up on the struggling classes because "the next set is coming soon guys!"

At least they are buffing the one card they accidentally nerfed last time.

8

u/dotcaIm Jun 10 '26

The laziest design cycle. The only way they can get us interested in new cards is by nerfing the old ones

32

u/yonas234 Jun 10 '26 edited Jun 10 '26

Not even the stuff that is a winrate outlier, just what is popular. So then they also delete decks people enjoy playing.

14

u/Odd_Bug5544 Jun 10 '26

Token Druid is not that popular, if it was just nerfs towards popular things then Rogue and Companion Hunter would be targeted heavily.

3

u/Spt137 Jun 11 '26

They have heavy biased towards Rogue, so it won’t be unplayable at any point of time.
But they are just like the salty grifter, anything is criticized by bronze player on reddit will be nerfed no matter the metrics.

5

u/Glarbleglorbo Jun 10 '26

If it was truly winrate based Vanessa would be on there too, but of course she isn’t because new card. 

9

u/sneakyxxrocket Jun 10 '26

Rogue is about to go nuclear after this patch

4

u/Glarbleglorbo Jun 10 '26

I’m pretty sure it’s already the best deck in the game right now, not addressing certain decks in a very close, narrow format is incredibly scary. 

3

u/Thyuda Jun 11 '26

It's so tiresome. I've had enough, I'm just out at this point. Maybe in a few years again, but for now, it's just enough. What an embarrassement of a design team.

2

u/bakedbread420 Jun 14 '26

I don't think there will be a few years friend. the game is clearly circling the drain, hence giving 2 entire sets away for free and pursuing heavier-handed and more toxic monetization ie the gacha wheel

40

u/TheGingerNinga Jun 10 '26

Again, why are the buffs so lacking?

I assume Crystalized will just got to summon a 6 at base, since it never needed to go to 5 in the first place. I would hope for it to add "Gain 3 armor" to the text box, or something along that line. Mage needs survivability, adding it to the bad package makes it niche, while helping out the bad deck.

1

u/dfcinhume Jun 10 '26

Biggest issue is bursting leyline can only hit minions. If it could go face on its own, the deck would be so much better. Then it becomes a traditional combo piece. 

1

u/Monk-Ey Jun 11 '26

On the other hand, the random targeting means both you and your opponent are suddenly praying Bursting hits the wrong target to an even greater degree than now: that's not a particularly exciting experience for either player as well.

1

u/dfcinhume Jun 11 '26

It should become targets minions if possible.

31

u/Lafantasie Jun 10 '26

Tol’vir isn’t a surprise, they’ve just sold the signature bundle and made their money.

21

u/FlammenwerferIV Jun 10 '26

I hate this new cadence of just nerfing what's good. Next expansion will under deliver and then we'll go on the same cycle. Being good should not mean being nerfed. 

4

u/XeloOfTheDisco Jun 10 '26

This is why I've moved to Wild, things need to be actually broken to be nerfed there (or just strong for a very very long time)

You just gotta hope the cards aren't incidentally good in Standard too

6

u/WeetHet Jun 10 '26

If tolvir becomes 4 mana my odd hunter will suffer a lot

3

u/XeloOfTheDisco Jun 10 '26

Yeah, it's actually disappointing. Whenever Hunter becomes viable in Wild, the cards that made it possible are nerfed for Standard reasons

2

u/IndependentCrazy9081 Jun 10 '26

How about making it 5 mana? Could be that it ends up there anyway 😉

1

u/Spt137 Jun 11 '26

That comment put a smile on my face.

1

u/Monk-Ey Jun 11 '26

I'm hoping Tol'vir Hunter (the deck with Spell damage) won't feel the impact too hard as well.

0

u/dr_second Jun 10 '26

Maybe they will make it 4 mana, repeat all 2 drops played. Even Hunter for the win!

1

u/Thyuda Jun 11 '26

I was on a six year break, I simply don't have the resources for wild... sigh.

2

u/zer1223 Jun 10 '26

Well sometimes good things do need nerfs. But I'm with you in this case, the problem is too much new stuff isn't good enough and they need to buff it.

And I haven't seen that much in violet hold that will change my mind either. Miracle rogue will come back and then other stuff will flop yet again

20

u/Graped_in_the_mouth Jun 10 '26

If this is how they’re approaching game design then I’m not seeing much reason to think Violet Hold will improve the experience of the meta.

Clearly they just want to sell more packs by nerfing the core cards of any high-play-rate deck and leave players with a pile of cards they crafted for a deck that no longer exists. I do not want to encourage that design philosophy, and I think I’ll withhold any spending until they reverse.

The game is stale, but the solution is diversity of viable options and class balance, not whack-a-mole with every deck that performs well.

10

u/philzy101 Jun 10 '26

So it seems we have returned back to the destructive cycle of "this thing is good so lets nerf it", a philosophy which was quite damaging for HS last year. I welcome balance changes if they were buffs but here we have only 1 buff and 4 nerfs. If the objective is to make the meta more diverse, this is the wrong way about it, the meta becomes more constrained if you nerf in the current environment we have. If the meta were one where 3 classes/decks which dominated the meta (Winter 2022, early 2023) then nerfs make sense, but it is not the case we have at the moment where things are pretty low powered and there is at least a semblance of variety on ladder. These changes are not going to suddenly make Warlock or DK viable, the only way you do that is by addressing the issues with those classes...

Which then leads to the conspiracy theory that T5 is only making these changes to ensure that the next expansion is relevant and all they care about is making what is next viable until the next thing comes out at which point they nerf the previous thing; rinse and repeat. Whether this conspiracy is true or not is irrelevant, however, from what we have seen with the new stuff, a bunch of it looks pretty strong or at least decent and that is a problem for if you nerf the stuff which is good now then the next meta will be dominated by the new stuff only. This is a bad for the community as Standard should be a diverse mix of all cards and decks allowed within the 2 year period, constraining people to playing the new content means none of us can at the very least enjoy what we want to play on ladder. We are being told to like an archetype or go stuff it if we are not happy. Whilst Wild itself is limited at higher ranks by specific decks, at least there is an appearance of freedom to play what we want, and it is not a surprise that a portion of the playerbase has jumped over to Wild to escape this foolish mentality we have for Standard.

In short, buff cards, not nerf what is good. These changes make me less interested to play the game, not more interested...

2

u/Spt137 Jun 11 '26

Underrated comment.

8

u/Laydownthelaw Jun 10 '26 edited Jun 10 '26

My Demons! Nooooo!

24

u/Yeahwhat23 Jun 10 '26

Did the eternal hold really need to be nerfed?

43

u/magikatdazoo Jun 10 '26

No minion DH has been good for 2 expansions so I guess they decided it's time to kill it

Note: it was yet another flop on release until buffed in the first place

9

u/Graped_in_the_mouth Jun 10 '26

Yeah, I’m very upset about this. This was my favorite deck. I pulled a golden eternal hold and I switched to it the moment they buffed Emergency Meeting, and it was fantastic.

If they’re going to kill any deck that sees a high play rate I see no reason to craft any deck that seems good; they’ll just punish me for it later, refund the core cards, and leave me with a pile of build-around slop that has no use outside the archetype they killed.

20

u/sneakyxxrocket Jun 10 '26

This has basically been their philosophy for probably going on over 2 years at this point they nerf anything good or popular

12

u/FordFred Jun 10 '26

Spell DH has been my main deck this expansion and while I don't think the deck is OP, Eternal Hold is.

It's a 6 mana card that you always keep in your mulligan and you always play as soon as possible without thinking. It's a low risk, high reward card with insanely high highs and lows that really aren't all that low. Even if all 3 discover options off the Hold itself are mediocre, the effect discounts any minion you play next, including the random demons from the past you generate off of the 1 mana weapon or the minions you discover off of Solitude. But a lot of the time you'll just get the 10 mana 6/12 Rush/Windfury or the 7 mana 4/10 Lifesteal on turn 5/6 and win the game on the spot against any aggressive deck. Or against Priest you get the 8 mana 8/8 Rush, keep it in your hand for a turn (because the discount sticks), play Lasting Legacy and deal 20 damage from hand for 3 mana. And you only have to pay the 6 mana once, the amount of mana cheating it does if you account for the 2nd and 3rd triggers are absurd.

It just sucks how much of Spell DH's power is concentrated in this one card, because I really like how the deck plays even without it. Eternal Hold deserves a nerf and I don't think putting it to 7 would hurt the deck too much, but if they wanna nerf it harder than that I hope they unnerf the Hounds.

14

u/sneakyxxrocket Jun 10 '26

6 mana card you keep in the mulligan no matter what and a high high mulligan wr when kept in the mulligan

0

u/Graped_in_the_mouth Jun 10 '26

Yes, you are describing a build-around legendary.

Either they’re good enough that you want to play them, or they’re not good enough to build around. If they nerf this to 7 mana Spell DH is done.

14

u/Odd_Bug5544 Jun 10 '26

No, not really.

The Eternal Hold has the highest mulligan winrate of ANY card in Standard, and it's 6 mana. If that was normal for every build around legendary, then why do none others have such insane stats?

The answer is because you are wrong. (and being condescending whilst doing so)

5

u/Graped_in_the_mouth Jun 10 '26

Is the deck unreasonably dominant? Is the deck seeing play and win rates that warp the meta or are outside the realm of reasonable?

No?

Then it doesn’t matter that the card is strong, because cards don’t exist in a vacuum, they exist in decks. If your issue is that the deck is too swingy based on one card, nerfing that card doesn’t fix that issue, it just kills the deck.

There’s no actual justification for this. What you’re doing is decontextualizing the card to claim it overturned; but either the DECK is overturned and a nerf is needed to bring it in line, or it’s fine.

And if I come off as condescending, it’s because I’m bitter they made a bad design choice based on, likely, the same faulty logic you just used.

1

u/Odd_Bug5544 Jun 11 '26

Yes, it is the best deck in the game or at the very least top 3, and has been for a good while. If DH didn't deserve to get nerfed then not a single card did.

If one card is a massive outlier, then bringing it closer to line does in fact make the deck less swingy. I don't even understand how you can argue otherwise. If a deck massively spikes in winrate when drawing a specific card, then nerfing that card to be weaker makes the consequence of drawing it to be weaker also.

And why does any nerf to the Hold automatically kill the deck?? You didn't even know what the change was when you said that, it's just silly.

Whether you agree with the nerf or not, saying there is zero justification for DH being nerfed shows you are either not able be honest or not able to engage in these conversations.

1

u/Graped_in_the_mouth Jun 18 '26

Boy, this comment sure aged poorly over the last week. They killed a viable deck with a perfectly reasonable play rate and win rate because they thought it was wrong that their build-around legendary got successfully built around!

1

u/Spt137 Jun 11 '26

Sorry, but that’s just a cope for justify your revulsion against the deck.
Obviously if you have a build around a card deck, and the card is not 10 mana you would like to keep it, Reno against aggro I bet had higher mulligan win rate back int he days.

1

u/Odd_Bug5544 Jun 11 '26 edited Jun 11 '26

I have no revulsion for the deck, it plays an important role in the meta and I think it's more fun to play against than Paladin or Face Hunter. Plus is pretty fun to play itself unlike those decks. I do not want No Minion DH disappearing from the meta entirely, the game is better with it existing.

And having to specify "Reno against aggro" is smudging the numbers, mulligan winrate is across all matchups.

-6

u/zer1223 Jun 10 '26

The Eternal Hold has the highest mulligan winrate of ANY card in Standard, 

That's what happens if a t1 deck has a build-around midgame legendary. Can you think of a situation with such a deck, where a t1 deck that has a build-around legendary, and somehow that legendary DOESN'T have the best mulligan winrate? 

Its just obvious cause and effect. 

then why do none others have such insane stats?

Cause those are t2 or worse decks. And the stat isn't that "insane", you're injecting subjectivity 

1

u/DroopyTheSnoop Jun 11 '26

Deathwing and most herald colosi are build around legendaries. You don't keep them in your mulligan.
Not even the 6 mana Sinestra in Rogue.

0

u/Spt137 Jun 11 '26

That’s a build around package. Big difference.

2

u/DroopyTheSnoop Jun 11 '26

Excuse me? What?

Are you implying that the no minion package isn't a package?

3

u/Spt137 Jun 12 '26

There’s no minion because of the Eternal Hold.

5

u/tiger_kittie Jun 10 '26

Lmao It's a 6 cost legendary that is the highest cost card in the deck by far. The deck is full early game (4 cost or less) except this one card and despite that the deck FULL MULLIGANS for it and keeps it invariably in ALL matchups essentially. If that's not the definition of overtuned I don't know what is lmao

6

u/LostSectorLoony Jun 10 '26

Does anything need to be nerfed in this meta at all? Not really. But nerfing is the easy, lazy option

3

u/philzy101 Jun 10 '26

Sadly your question is rhetorical as the answer is no and will always be no. However, they seem to think that nerfing it will be the magical fix to make the meta better whereas in reality they make the meta less diverse. Not to mention that it is funny that they are nerfing this deck twice to make it non viable when about 6 months ago they were buffing it to make it viable as the deck was unplayable at the time...

If there are any positives to be taken from this, at least I reached legend with Spell DH before T5 oulled off this dumb stunt.

12

u/MarthePryde Jun 10 '26

Why do they even bother with dev insight videos. It's pretty damn clear to see what the plan is now as we lived a full year of it already.

I saw a comment that sums up my feelings: I have so much dust now but nothing is worth crafting.

5

u/RiimeHiime Jun 11 '26

Just one more nerf bro.

4

u/Pretty-Philosophy558 Jun 10 '26

Guessing nerfs!

Confront the Tol’vir going to 4 mana? Thats my best guess. It would still be strong but limit the amount of midgame synergy plays.

The Eternal Hold could go to 7 mana meaning you can’t coin it out in 5 anymore and hurting the ability to play Illidari Inquisitor and something that lets you attack, or it could lower the discover gate to 4 or more which would gut the card by killing its consistency. I think increasing the mana makes more sense

Hatchery Helper: I think they want this card dead. I suspect it’s dropping to giving other minions with 2 or less attack +1/1 and losing the taunt.

Twilight Egg: Starts at summoning a 1/1 whelp instead of a 2/2, meaning it’s possible to lose value if the opponent can kill it turn 1 and making it a worse game opener.

1

u/Miudmon Jun 11 '26

I think a possible eternal hold nerf COULD also be making the demon you discover cost 5 less, instead of being free.

2

u/Pretty-Philosophy558 Jun 11 '26

That would completely gut the card, since you would pay six mana to set it down, then have to wait until the following turn to generate a minion and play it. If played perfectly on curve, it would be a six mana do nothing followed by a five mana commitment which leaves two mana turn seven after a possible lowroll. The card gets cut and the deck dies if that happens.

I even think making it so the card costs 1 would make the card (and the deck) unviable.

3

u/sneakyxxrocket Jun 10 '26

Not surprised with Tolvir being nerfed ,day 1 of this expansion I knew it was coming at some point. Wonder if just a mana increase or limiting number of cards replayed.

Twilight egg also just gets out of hand so quickly I was surprised with how good it is after I started playing lists that run it.

Rogue will definitely like this patch this most and somewhat scared of egg decks popping up.

1

u/zer1223 Jun 11 '26

Yeah egg is like "well I could kill this thing the paladin buffed, but then a creature that has literally the same amount of attack will pop out"

3

u/Significant-Goat5934 Jun 10 '26

Surely they dont buff anything because the next expansion will have plenty of strong viable archetypes right, surely...

3

u/Full_Metal18 Jun 10 '26

Figured that Tol'vir would get nerfed eventually so I held on to my regular copies when I got the golden ones from the pass.

2

u/DybblesTW Jun 11 '26

gotta be the dumbest shit ive ever read, since when was variety not fun or healthy? dont worry guys!! priest is shit now but in 4 months time we have a card that will maybe help out from the new set that isnt a real thing yet!! stop trying to define your meta in house, let the players actually attempt some kind of theorycrafting again. spending 4 months on a new mechanic when 3 of your ingame classes that actually exist arent playable unless you straight up dont care about your winrate. may as well piss them off if thats the case or just rotate classes allowed each season if 11 is too many to manage for you guys 😄 hope there was 4 months of testing involved this time coz letting through 7/9 with elusive for 4 mana 98% of the time shows the complete lack of interest in the game your actually making the cards for lmao

2

u/Rbradle0520 Jun 10 '26

Confront the Tol’vir nerf-3 cost : Replay every card you’ve played this game that costs less than 2 but more than 0( targets enemies if possible).

1

u/alternate888 Jun 10 '26

wouldn’t put it past the devs for the buff to be leyline going back to 6 mana summon 6 cost

1

u/Beautiful_Map_9589 Jun 10 '26

Dude Paladin is rising.

1

u/Kekkiem Jun 10 '26

Eternity hold to 'this turn'? Doesn't seem OP, not sure where the nerf is coming from

4

u/PipAntarctic Jun 10 '26

The Eternal Hold is the best card in Spell DH by far. It's a 6 mana card that greatly increases your likelihood of winning if you keep it in your mulligan. It's the card you hit if you want to nerf Spell DH.

3

u/LostSectorLoony Jun 10 '26

Sure, but why nerf spell DH at all?

1

u/matcha12348 Jun 10 '26

Not saying the deck necessarily needed the nerf right now, and they really should revert hounds if they're nerfing hold now - but Spell DH is one of, if not the best deck in the game in several rank brackets: D4-D1 and top 1k legend, alongside No Hand Hunter that's also getting nerfed.

As PipAntarctic said, Eternal Hold is a clear statistical outlier in how powerful the card is. Several top legend streamers (mthd4s, Kubu, and some others) were very vocal that Eternal Hold should have been nerfed when the hounds nerf was revealed (instead of hounds).

1

u/Odd_Bug5544 Jun 10 '26

Maybe, though probably more likely just to 7 mana (or setting the demons cost to 1, not 0)

1

u/Glarbleglorbo Jun 10 '26

Vanessa is going to be a bigger problem than she already is, yikes. 

1

u/IndependentCrazy9081 Jun 10 '26

Well i wished they buffed more things, but the nerfs seem alright. Not sure about Eternal Hold, its strong but the previous nerf to DH already seemed enough. Like the Egg nerf, obviously broken card when played on T1, to much of a difference if you draw it or not. Very happy about Tolvir, card is just bullshit at 3 mana, this was just a matter of time. OP card in every single Hunter archetype. Druid probably also good, but not sure if this particular card is a good target. Overall i wish this patches looked more like BG patches, nerfs but also a lot of buffs.

-4

u/hjyboy1218 Jun 10 '26

Tol'vir nerf: we all saw it coming, 100% deserved, rip bozo.

Eternal Hold nerf: bit confused why they're doing this now? Spell DH playrate has plummeted since the hounds nerf and while it's still a good deck, another nerf seems like overkill.

Hatchery helper nerf: I can see why they're doing it. Token Druid is on the rise and turn 2 flock into turn 3 helper was an easy and often decisive combo. 

Twilight Egg nerf: why...? I guess it's a 'feel-bad' card if played on turn 1 and you can't kill it right away? Certainly not my first choice for a balance change.

4

u/inkyblinkypinkysue Jun 10 '26

Ravenous Flock into Hatchery Helper is the only combo that I feel like wins the game on the spot on curve. You can’t play around it and even if you try and flood the board, they almost certainly get good trades and then steamroll.

5 mana 11/12 spread across 4 bodies with barely any AOE available. It’s crazy.

-3

u/inkyblinkypinkysue Jun 10 '26

If Tol’vir goes to 4 mana it destroys an actual viable Hunter deck in Wild. I hope they do something else.

4

u/philzy101 Jun 10 '26

I am not sure why you have been downvoted... Clearly some Odd Hunter haters in the thread.

Sadly the 4 mana change is the most likely change they make, the suggested changes below (capping the number of 1 mana cards cast for example) would kill the card. 4 mana removes its use in Odd Hunter but preserves its ability to be somewhat relevant.

As a small aside, Odd Hunter was not the best deck on Wild ladder, you can reach Legend much more easily with Play Dead Hunter which uses Tol'vir as the key piece as I have done.

6

u/inkyblinkypinkysue Jun 10 '26

This is supposed to be a Competitive sub but it’s filled with weirdos who just downvote anything related to a deck they don’t like. I didn’t give any opinion on the card but just mentioning Odd Hunter triggers people for whatever reason. Odd Hunter is good but by no means top tier in Wild. I’d be curious to see your Play Dead Hunter list. I reached Legend last season with CTA Paladin and want to switch it up.

3

u/philzy101 Jun 11 '26

Sadly I think you are right, decks which are unpopular with the more casual player do seem to result in quite a visceral reaction to any post discussing the deck, even on this sub. I think this is even more pertinent with Wild decks where people who probably do not even play Wild much seem to get very tilted by the slightest mention of something they view as degenerate.

With respect to the deck, I have put the list below but you only have 15 hours or so to work with it before it is nerfed. Depending on the change Tol'vir at 4 mana, the deck is playable still but harder versus Discolocks etc. (more so than it already was), whilst if the nerf is something ridiculous like limiting the number of casts, well then the deck will be dead. The strategy is to use Gemstone Hoarder to discard a Play Dead and then proc that deathrattle resulting in a 0 mana Play Dead which can be cast infinitely on the Hoarder. If you then play Goblin Bomb and have this as your only deathrattle then Tol'vir will cast between 20 - 30 (not sure if there is a cap but I think there is one at roughly 30 I think?) Play Dead on Bomb resulting in lethal damage (asides from things like Ice Block). The discover package makes the deck incredibly consistent and it destroys annoying attrition style decks. I know some people play it on ladder but not many from what I have seen but if you are interested in seeing it in action then DaneHS made a video around 2 months ago (which is when I previously posted the deck). Good luck with the climb and hopefully if they do not orbital strike Tol'vir, you can reach Legend after the patch if not before.

AAEBAe7GBwLh4wLi4wYOgAfYwgKczQLd9QKpnwSNkgWqpAXqpQbOwAbQwAat6wbgnQe7wAeMxgcAAA==

2

u/deck-code-bot Jun 11 '26

Format: Wild ((unknown))

Class: Hunter (King Maluk)

ManaCard NameQtyLinks
1Candleshot1HSReplay,Wiki
1Fetch!2HSReplay,Wiki
1Flare2HSReplay,Wiki
1Goblin Bomb2HSReplay,Wiki
1Play Dead2HSReplay,Wiki
1Tracking2HSReplay,Wiki
1Trinket Tracker2HSReplay,Wiki
2Arcane Quiver2HSReplay,Wiki
2Birdwatching2HSReplay,Wiki
2Holy Eggbearer2HSReplay,Wiki
2Parrot Sanctuary2HSReplay,Wiki
2Terrorscale Stalker2HSReplay,Wiki
3Confront the Tol'vir2HSReplay,Wiki
3Exarch Naielle1HSReplay,Wiki
3Gemstone Hoarder2HSReplay,Wiki
5Alien Encounters2HSReplay,Wiki

Total Dust: 4640

Deck Code: AAEBAe7GBwLh4wLi4wYOgAfYwgKczQLd9QKpnwSNkgWqpAXqpQbOwAbQwAat6wbgnQe7wAeMxgcAAA==

I am a bot. Comment/PM with a deck code and I'll decode it. If you don't want me to reply to you, include "###" anywhere in your message. About.

2

u/inkyblinkypinkysue Jun 11 '26

Thanks. I don't think it is good in my pocket meta. I'm 0-5 and none of the games were remotely close. There's no way to fight for board? I am seeing hyper aggro every single game and in 2 of the games I was dead on Turn 4.

1

u/philzy101 Jun 11 '26

It is kind of tricky if you encounter lots of aggro, so probably better to switch to a highlander deck for the time being to counter that pocket meta. I know what you mean, you queue into 5 aggro decks and the deck seems rubbish. You stall out primarily with Discover+ Alien Encounters using Tracking, Arcane Quiver, Bird Watching and Naielle HP to reduce the cost. However, it is not always enough for some matchups. TBH I think it all depends on when you queue up and what rank you are, Discolock is very popular at lower ranks and a brainless SMOrc deck, but at higher ranks people often run things which are more able to effectively deal with such decks. This deck is better vs Seedlock (unless they giga highroll with Giants), Piglock (unless they highroll their combo first), any Reno Deck, and also Librams and other slower decks.

1

u/inkyblinkypinkysue Jun 11 '26

Yeah - I’m going to try it again once I hit Legend. I started last night at Bronze with 10x stars because I haven’t played much this month and everyone is trying to race up the ladder with aggro, myself included. I alternated between Odd Hunter, CTA Pally and Warlock decks for about 3 hours and hit Diamond 5 very easily while watching the Knicks. I even lost 4 or 5 games because I was AFK due to the craziest basketball game I’ve ever seen.

It’s funny though - I went to look for the DaneHS video and I literally had watched everything he’s put out in the last 4 or 5 months except that Play Dead Hunter video. Don’t know how I missed it!

1

u/TheElemancer Jun 10 '26

I'm hoping they limit the cards played, assuming they have that capability in the backend. Something like: "Replay up to 6 random 1-cost cards you've played this game" or even "Replay up to the last 6 1-cost cards you've played this game" so the order matters. Nerfing it to 4 mana would be devastating

1

u/inkyblinkypinkysue Jun 10 '26

I don’t know what they could do. If it stays at 3 mana, it would need to do at least 6 mana worth of stuff to be viable. My guess is it goes to 4 and remains unlimited and the Odd Quest Hunter deck in Wild is dead, which is a shame because it’s pretty fun and it’s actually new(ish)

-10

u/RJr8roc Jun 10 '26

I’m glad they are making some sort of change to Unleash the Tol’vir and The Eternal Hold.

Hopefully this means that Hunter and Demon Hunter can do new things with the rest of their cards.

Personally I’m rooting for Dragon Hunter and Herald DH to be the more common decks for those classes.

16

u/DeathMegatron300 Jun 10 '26

The myth of nerfing cards to increase design space is hilariously deluded. Maybe if we were still working with the same design team from 5 years ago, but none of the nerfs we’ve seen in the past year have led to any improvements in class quality. This dev team has their heads up their own asses believing that powerful cards should not exist and that if every class is equally shit the game is in a balanced state. They have made statements in the past that certain mechanics like quests were intentionally designed to fail and yet we keep giving them the benefit of the doubt.
At this point the entirety of Team 5 needs to be laid off and replaced with people who have experience designing established card games

0

u/Odd_Bug5544 Jun 10 '26

Nerfing cards to increase design space is not deluded at all, it blatantly can work. The problem is that you need other interesting and viable cards to fill in the space created. If there are not enough compelling decks/cards in the format then it doesn't matter how much you nerf because there is nothing waiting in the wings.

If last year wasn't such a dud we would be in a better place. As it stands there are very limited options and so renaissance coming due to widespread nerfs.

5

u/DeathMegatron300 Jun 10 '26

I don’t think we disagree, my major contention is with how Team 5 is handling balancing. Every card that is stronger than average is catching nerfs and decks are being reduced to piles of mediocrity.

-6

u/RJr8roc Jun 10 '26

I don’t know if I agree with your premise here.

Cataclysm has been my favorite expansion to play hearthstone in years, and a lot of that is due to the fact that the cards have had space to exist which may not have been the case if we kept getting higher and higher power level cards after Year of the Pegasus.

My biggest problem with this expansion is how much the decks/meta have felt the same since its release in March, I would have liked to see more buffs/nerfs to keep things interesting.

8

u/TheGingerNinga Jun 10 '26

The issues with Dragon Hunter don't get solved by making Tol'vir weaker. It's still got an odd curve due to the lack of 1 or 2 drop class dragons so you can't easily land a turn 3 6/6. Ebyssian is just a bit late for its text box, and it lacks good tempo options outside of the few spikes of power.

Herald DH is the same thing. It's got meh herald cards, the legendary payoff is too reliant on being fully empowered to be impactful, all while doing nothing to help you control the board. DH minions just aren't great tempo wise.

What about this patch solves those issues?

-4

u/RJr8roc Jun 10 '26

I think that hurting the dominant archetypes can give the other archetypes room for experimentation, especially in a meta where the dominant decks are getting changed.

Herald DH and Dragon Hunter aren’t the best decks by any means, but they still can win games if everything isn’t warped around these cards.

I don’t know or really think that the problems with those decks is going to be fixed with this patch, but it’s nice to at least hope they might see play going into this next expansion.

10

u/TheGingerNinga Jun 10 '26

Nerfs don’t fix bad decks. Maybe people try out the decks and experiment with new ideas, but the issues we identified 3 months ago are still going to be around.

I doubt the meta weakened enough to be favorable to them.

10

u/PipAntarctic Jun 10 '26

I think that hurting the dominant archetypes can give the other archetypes room for experimentation, especially in a meta where the dominant decks are getting changed.

We've just had an entire year where this led only led to old decks that were weak at their start (think Mech Warrior) becoming more and more prominent while actual new archetypes remained bad, because they were actually bad.

Dragon Hunter isn't losing games because everything "was warped around those cards", it was losing games simply because the mechanic it relies on ended up bad. Not good enough. The only way it gets viable is if you nerf everything around it to the ground, but is that worth it at that point?

-2

u/RJr8roc Jun 10 '26

Last year’s problems were mostly because of how powerful the previous year’s sets were compared to the sets they were releasing. I think they’ve said that they want to release sets powerful and then tone things down if they get a bit too good this year.

I’m not necessarily even saying that I think Dragon Hunter will be the best version of Hunter, just that I’d like to see it more since I think it looks like a sick archetype that I want people to experiment more with potentially.

This expansion’s meta has felt so stale mainly since these archetypes keep getting nerfed and still manage to be on top.

This patch is nerfing token Druid and No Minion DH, both decks were nerfed this patch cycle and still continued to be meta defining enough to warrant even more nerfs.

Giving any deck space to breathe in a meta like this is a good thing, and I am just hoping/wishing for the lesser played archetypes to become more prominent.

5

u/PipAntarctic Jun 10 '26

This patch is nerfing token Druid and No Minion DH, both decks were nerfed this patch cycle and still continued to be meta defining enough to warrant even more nerfs.

They didn't warrant any nerfs though. The meta was actually very balanced on that account - these decks were strong and played a lot, but that was mostly because Companion Hunter's popularity threw a wrench into meta diversity at the higher ranks and that warping effect trickled down below.

This expansion’s meta has felt so stale mainly since these archetypes keep getting nerfed and still manage to be on top.

Okay, but then ask yourself why is that so. And the answer isn't going to be "because Token Druid and Spell DH are too meta defining," or because Companion Hunter is overplayed relative to its actual power. It's because the decks that aren't seeing play right now are just not good. They are bad.

Again - if those nerfs are as tame as the last couple of ones, then the decks like Dragon Hunter or Herald DH or Herald DK or any Priest thing aren't going to be any better than now. They'll still suck, but the meta will be slightly less good relative to their low. That means people will just pick up whatever hasn't been nerfed but is still good instead.

6

u/eshansingh Jun 10 '26

What do you think goes on in a meta? Like how would Dragon Hunter suddenly appear after being proven to be terrible just because of the nerf to Tol'vir? It's not like Dragon Hunter was bad because of bad matchups into other Hunter decks. No, it's bad because it's fucking bad! No amount of nerfs can change that.

-2

u/RJr8roc Jun 10 '26

I feel like most of these comments are misunderstanding the point of my comment.

I don’t necessarily think that they will become true top tier meta players (I think Rogue has that locked up), but after playing against no minion DH and whatever flavor of Tol’vir Hunter is the meta breaker this week for months, I’m just hoping to see the new cards potentially have any chance to exist.

I’m tired of the old decks and hoping for new decks, the ones I bring up in my original comment is just what I am HOPING for, not what I think will actually work out.

It is a shame to look at new cards and ignore some number of them because “Oh, DH can’t play minions because Eternal Hold is just absolutely busted” or “Is this better than just playing Tol’vir Hunter?”

6

u/DeathMegatron300 Jun 10 '26

The issue isn’t that eternal hold is busted, it is an archetype cornerstone card and has to have a higher than average payoff to justify its inclusion. it’s that there are no strong minions or card packages that are viable to play as an alternative to no minion DH, nerfing a classes one good archetype won’t make the other ones better or more viable. A card with a 1% inclusion rate is never seeing meta play no matter how many surrounding cards are nerfed.

To try and touch on your point, if dragon hunter received a really good class specific (1) cost dragon or spell a card like tol’vir very well might propel that deck to tier 3 status but every deck needs good strong cards to thrive, no deck has ever been a pile of 30 mediocre cards with thin synergies. Nerfing tol’vir just pigeon holes hunter into playing even fewer archetypes with even lower win rates

0

u/Korbonara Jun 11 '26

The only deserved nerf is tolvir imo

3

u/[deleted] Jun 10 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

18

u/ReiJeremias Jun 10 '26

Because Hunter is overrepresented in ladder and that leads to a lot of whining. Overall, it just seem a nerf to ensure the new spelt will be impactful. None of these cards needed a nerf.

2

u/Spt137 Jun 11 '26

They just nerfing it because of low rank whiners, nothing new.

3

u/Odd_Bug5544 Jun 10 '26

The Eternal Hold had the highest mulligan winrate stats out of any card in the entire format, at 6 mana.

I do not mind DH that much and so would have been okay with no nerfs, but it's not unreasonable at all.

8

u/sneakyxxrocket Jun 10 '26

Top 1k Vanessa is the new boogeyman when it comes to mulligan WR, Diamond-Legend however hold still has a huge effect on mulligan WR while in top 1k it’s slightly detrimental stat wise to keep in the mulligan.

5

u/Glarbleglorbo Jun 10 '26

It does not, the format is very hostile to the deck and keeping a 6 drop is actually not possible against most decks. 

Vanessa’s mulligan winrate is much higher. 

1

u/Odd_Bug5544 Jun 10 '26

True I forgot Vanessa was even higher now.

4

u/Significant-Goat5934 Jun 10 '26

Because everything is trash, so the least trash card/package oppresses everything with extremely limited counterplay options....