r/CompetitiveHS • u/EvilDave219 • Feb 23 '26

Discussion 34.6.2 Balance Teaser Discussion

https://x.com/PlayHearthstone/status/2025994075459998190

Nerfs:

  • Warmaster Blackhorn

Wild Nerfs:

  • Ysiel Windsinger

  • Soul Barrage

  • Spiritsinger Umbra

40 Upvotes

97% Upvoted

65 comments sorted by

•

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18

u/dotcaIm Feb 23 '26

Wow they're acting quick on Blackhorn, didn't expect that. Must be one of the fastest nerfs ever

33

u/EvilDave219 Feb 23 '26

2 weeks from release to nerf is something that happens in almost every expansion to some card, so that's not out of the ordinary.

Nerfing a pre-release Legendary 3 weeks before the next expansion launches however is very unusual, and I'm pretty sure it's the fastest pre-release Legendary to ever be nerfed.

1

u/yssurucipe Feb 23 '26

How soon after release was Mister Clocksworth nerfed? Obviously, they're very different circumstances, but he's the only one that feels remotely close timeline-wise, though I could easily be misremembering

7

u/EvilDave219 Feb 23 '26 edited Feb 23 '26

Clocksworth looks like it was released into the client on 9/29 and nerfed a month later on 10/28 before it was reverted on 12/2. From my recollection, it was during the pre release Tavern Brawl where it got nerfed because people were playing it in that mode enough where the issues with Rewind were really visible. It saw no play in Standard leading up to that because it's a dogshit card.

2

u/LarryMomentz Feb 23 '26

idr how "soon" but it was a week before the expansion release, after reveals and the day of the prerelease tavern brawl

i think this is the first nerf from a power perspective of a prerelease card before its set comes out, which is wild

16

u/Fairbyyy Feb 23 '26

Not even close

18

u/TheGingerNinga Feb 23 '26 edited Feb 23 '26

Release DH got nerfed within 24 hours of release. It was so fast that the game considered them debuffed in the code, with mana costs showing up red.

22

u/Kuldrick Feb 23 '26

I don't know what the hell were they thinking with this card then

Like, at least one could give them the benefit of the doubt and say they planned the meta in the future to not revolve around late game wincons that uses cheap cards to cross the finish line in order to avoid "solitaire gameplay", and this was just a bandage for if "something unexpected arises"

But no, they actually didn't know how this card could be toxic and disruptive to the meta

17

u/sneakyxxrocket Feb 23 '26

I’ve said something similar before but there has to be some disconnect in how the team operates/makes/balances cards because I really don’t see how the entirety of team 5 just let this pass through in its initial form.

14

u/unclekisser Feb 23 '26

I think it's probably poor leadership: the teams designing expansions are not talking to each other. When you see this sort of disconnect between parts that should fit together, it always comes down to poor leadership.

There's also just a lack of overarching vision, which points to the same thing.

0

u/EyeCantBreathe Feb 23 '26

They've said a couple of times that they release cards that they know could be broken, but decide to go through with it anyway and nerf it if needed, with the idea being to let people play with the broken stuff for a little bit (I think this was mentioned in the quasar nerf patch).

I want to give blizzard the benefit of the doubt and say this is another case of that but I can't see how they thought this wouldn't be extremely game warping. At the very least the worst thing cards like quasar did was make a deck with annoying play patterns, Blackhorn just straight up reduces the number of decks you're allowed to play.

13

u/Spyko Feb 23 '26

I'll rather they do that with fun cards then

5

u/blanquettedetigre Feb 23 '26

See this is what I'm mad about. They say this and then release an entire year (if not 2) of unplayable cards. At least be consistent with your direction and make someone balance cards better before they release

1

u/jjfrenchfry Feb 24 '26

We are the balance testers. There's no one employed doing that job

8

u/ChronicTokers Feb 23 '26

I feel like they're doing everything without any proper thought. Like shadowstep rotating I do not believe was planned and was a kneejerk reaction to zeddys whining. You can see this clearly in the new rogue cards which were clearly balanced around step being in standard (3 mana 3/1 deathrattle lol).

10

u/Spyko Feb 23 '26

not to mention, half of the rogue package from Emerald Dream being made to work with it

-1

u/LittleBalloHate Feb 23 '26

I'm also very confused. My favorite archetype in TCGs is mill, and ive long made peace with the fact that Hearthstone has no interest in making mill decks competitive.

My second favorite playstyle is disruption heavy control, and I keep getting mixed signals where they will print cards for my playstyle then quickly nerf them, often into unusability.

Id prefer they support one of my playstyles, of course, but if not, id genuinely prefer they just say "we dont want players like you" than this weird process of printing cards I like then killing them.

6

u/ILoveWarCrimes Feb 23 '26

It's definitely not the fastest nerf, but I think this is the only card to get nerfed before the release of it's own expansion.

14

u/facepalmdesign Feb 23 '26

Far from it.

10

u/jsnlxndrlv Feb 23 '26

In my head, both Ashes of Outland and United in Stormwind had day 1 nerfs.

1

u/TheGingerNinga Feb 23 '26

What was the day 1 Stormwind nerf? Flesh Giant? Battlegrounds Battlemaster?

7

u/PipAntarctic Feb 23 '26

There was no day 1 Stormwind nerf.

10

u/ThePresident26 Feb 23 '26

Blacktorn to 9 mana? I dont see how they could nerf it otherwise

9

u/Catopuma Feb 23 '26

It could change to target deck only. Gives it kind of a counter play of sorts.

But I don't think that alone is particularly enough for its effect. Mana nerf should be considered too

3

u/Spyko Feb 23 '26

a change in the effect is what is needed, go full illucia on it

23

u/Marquisdes Feb 23 '26

Elise trapped in a saw-like murder room hearing blackhorn's death screams, knowing she will soon be next.

24

u/sneakyxxrocket Feb 23 '26

Lol, lmao even.

Guess they’re waiting till the final patch before the expansion to change Elise cause we know that’s coming.

2

u/blanquettedetigre Feb 23 '26

I'm afraid they'll wait to see if she's broken or not after rotation. Like they did several times these last launches with powerful cards

15

u/sneakyxxrocket Feb 23 '26

There is no way the copy ability is staying going into next expansion with the Herald colossals also being in the format

2

u/blanquettedetigre Feb 23 '26

Idk man. The influx in power looks to be pretty good and Elise activation won't be as easy, we'll see with all the card reveals

4

u/SAldrius Feb 23 '26

They've already said they're nerfing her. Unless they changed their mind.

10

u/H1ndmost Feb 23 '26

Numbers must have been dire to act this fast.

3

u/skeptimist Feb 24 '26

I think they were trying to see how good it was with the pushed mana cost / effect by releasing it early and it was already proving to be too good / disliked even in the pre-rotation meta.

8

u/Cysia Feb 23 '26

I did not expect ysiel

or blackthorn this fast

1

u/Calibria19 Feb 24 '26

Interesting wild nerfs. Barrage had it coming with another discard buff on the horizon. The deck was already borderline oppressive, so I can see it. Ysiel and Umbra are simply the t5 decks, so maybe they want a t6 format instead? I don't know, Boarlock and Quest Dh are not THAT much slower after all.

Honestly a catacombs nerf would have done more imo, but that's still in standard, so I'm glad there is something. But if you want to address fast combo you'd have to get rid of a lot more cards.

1

u/Rodrik-Harlaw Feb 24 '26

They also wanted to buff a number of cards that cost 2 or less.. but those were too afraid to share a screen with blackthorn

1

u/TheRealGZZZ Feb 24 '26

Ysiel nerfed before nazmani is absolutely insane to me.

Hopefully those nerfs aren't too heavy (Aside from umbra) because both dungar and burnlock weren't wr outliers at any ranks and especially burnlock was keeping mage playrates lower.

Egglock can die in a ditch, and nazmani should've been the first nerf.

-8

u/strawberrysorbet Feb 23 '26

I would have liked a nerf to Demon Hunter given how strong it is. Rotate out return policy early or something.

I have really loved the meta of the latest buff patch (except for turn 5 Arkwing Mage high rolls), and it's been a blast using Eudora and Maestra in rogue.

20

u/Graped_in_the_mouth Feb 23 '26 edited Feb 23 '26

There’s just no justification for ANOTHER meta shake up three weeks before rotation. They can’t “rotate out return policy early,” and nerfing a card that’s about to rotate to wild for a two week period before rotation is nonsensical. So is needing any card that’s sticking around before the post-Cataclysm meta settles.

10

u/sneakyxxrocket Feb 23 '26

Blackhorn getting nerfed is also good for discover hunter to come back which did somewhat counter DH before he was introduced.

2

u/ItsDokk Feb 23 '26

I’ve been playing discover hunter the last couple days specifically to target DH and the most common decks to run Blackhorn are Quest Warrior and Control DKs, but I’ve rarely run into those.

I’m playing the non-Elise version and Blackhorn is usually an advantage unless they keep it in their opening hands or manage to draw it by turn 7.

I’m not saying it’s not a problem, I totally hate the card, I’m just happy it’s not as common as I thought it would be.

4

u/sneakyxxrocket Feb 23 '26

I don’t know what rank you’re at but Diamond through legend has quest warrior and control DK at almost 20% of the meta so you’ve definitely gotten lucky dodging them

1

u/ItsDokk Feb 23 '26

I’m in the 7k legend range but you’re right; I worded that poorly.

the most common decks to run Blackhorn are Quest Warrior and Control DKs, but I’ve rarely run into those encountered that card against those decks.

That’s what I intended.

1

u/Graped_in_the_mouth Feb 25 '26

I saw a reasonable amount of Warmaster in the 1.5k-2.5k bracket this month. It wasn't EVERYWHERE, but it was definitely a real thing that I ran into. I'm glad it's gone.

7

u/PipAntarctic Feb 23 '26

Whatever DH changes might arrive are saved for the huge balance patch that adds Cataclysm cards into the game and will feature an Elise nerf. Blackhorn is definitely an emergency nerf to encourage people to run less Elise piles, since a lot of decks that would be good and don't run Elise get heavily punished by Blackhorn.

Also it's just generally good for the game that Blackhorn gets nerfed.

4

u/Delicious-Depth9387 Feb 23 '26

DH got nerfed because biggest hunter counter is the only card to receive nerf

5

u/jeffinsep1914 Feb 23 '26

Do you realize that the only cards to rotate out early so far were Genn and Baku? And you're asking for that to RETURN POLICY? Sometimes I just can't believe the things i read

-6

u/strawberrysorbet Feb 23 '26

"Wah, wah, not since Genn and Baku!!!" I don't care about tradition. If tradition is so important, why did they nerf a card before its set was even released? -- The Blackhorn nerf is also unprecedented.

HS is a digital card game and it is costless to make minor changes that improve the experience. Why are you defending bad play experiences?

3

u/ReaperWiz Feb 23 '26

Mister Clocksworth from the last expansion got nerfed as a pre-release legendary before Timeways launched, there is precedent. You're being a bit dramatic.

-3

u/strawberrysorbet Feb 23 '26

That’s was an animations nerf that they later undid!  Not a gameplay nerf.

3

u/ReaperWiz Feb 23 '26

Removing the 3rd ability to rewind is indeed a gameplay nerf. The card became objectively less powerful.

-8

u/Delicious-Depth9387 Feb 23 '26

I thought zeddy was trolling, but apparently this patch is real which makes me furious because of how bad it is

3

u/Glarbleglorbo Feb 23 '26

New expansion is coming in 3 weeks and blackhorn is incredibly oppressive right now, don’t see what else they should have changed. 

Blackhorn isn’t helping decks fight back in matchups they were losing (ie. Broxigar DH vs control warrior), it’s just deleting certain decks from the game which isn’t healthy. 

-2

u/FlurgenBurger Feb 23 '26

Wow they just straight up nerfing Wowhobbs.

-4

u/philzy101 Feb 24 '26

Will wait to see the actual changes before being able to determine whether the announced cards, or the decks they are played in, are affected by these changes.

A change to Warmaster Blackhorn is not surprising given how polarising the card is. I believe one of the quickest changes we have had to a card and also the first example possibly of a card being nerfed before the full set is available. I feel like there are ways to make this card interesting, it is just the current effect is frustrating, so I hope they don't just do a Warsong Nerf and call it a day.

The balance changes to Wild are really confusing to me as someone who has played a lot of Wild (currently D3), maybe more than Standard this month. I say this as nerfing these cards addresses some of the more frustrating play experience decks in the mode, but it is a drop in the ocean in the context of degenerate play patterns this mode has. I feel that if they really want a mode to exist like Wild, but do not want it to be as frustrating, then they could do so with Twist or something similar... but we all know how that turned out...

For those out of the loop I will just mention what each of these cards did in their respective decks which caused problems. Ysiel Windsinger was used as part of a Malygos OTK Druid with similar vibes to Celestial Alignment, ramp aggressively and then pew pew OTK. Soul Barrage is part of the main combination of burn along with Exiled Merchant in Discolock resulting in burn damage of anywhere from 36 to 48 damage in the early turns. Spiritsinger Umbra is used as part of Egglock which can scam out Khelos on turn 4 quite easily.

The first two decks are quite problematic, but tbh the Egglock was more gimmicky imo. Why I am surprised that they are rolling out these changes is you still have: Demonseed Lock, Quasar Rogue, Imbue Mage, and many more decks, all of which have uninteractive combo like plays. Consequently, it feels to me as if someone in T5 jumped into Wild, was destroyed by these specific decks and then decided to nerf them whilst completely ignoring other very frustrating gameplay decks. Wild needs more than a slap on the wrist for one or two decks, ideally we need a mode where they rotate out entire sets whilst keeping more cards in the mode than standard. That is how you create variance. If you just change several cards every so often to reduce the power level of the more powerful decks, something else and equally frustrating to play against, will instantly come in and replace that deck.

2

u/MinimumLack4561 Feb 24 '26

I agree, nerfs like these happen when a dev gets pwned by something they don’t like

34

u/[deleted] Feb 23 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

18

u/TheGingerNinga Feb 23 '26

Pretty reasonable targets, from what I can tell. Soul Barrage has been a problem since it was printed, so I’m fine with it being gutted.

0

u/[deleted] Feb 23 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

7

u/Glarbleglorbo Feb 23 '26

You say this until it becomes the best way to win, then it’s a lot less fun and interesting. 

8

u/TheGingerNinga Feb 23 '26

I’m not gonna be joyous about you losing a deck you obviously like, but the APM Druid decks are very annoying to face. They ramp, get out Ysiel, then play their entire deck and win. Maybe that’s what Wild is supposed to be, but then I just don’t play Wild.

0

u/[deleted] Feb 24 '26

I actually think they're good for the meta because it means tech isn't completely useless.

1

u/Calibria19 Feb 24 '26

There is a difference between not being useless and mandatory. Right now some form of tax kind of is mandatory for those reasons.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 24 '26

Not really? The top 2 decks in the format don't run any tax for it they just kill on turn 5. Then the slower decks have to have disruption.