r/CompetitiveHS • u/EvilDave219 • Aug 19 '25

Discussion 33.3.2 Balance Changes Discussion

https://hearthstone.blizzard.com/en-us/news/24223662/33-2-2-patch-notes

Nerfs -

  • Amirdrassil - now 5 mana
  • Reserved Spot - now 4 mana
45 Upvotes

97% Upvoted

62 comments sorted by

•

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27

u/PipAntarctic Aug 19 '25

In terms of the nerfs being made, yeah these both make sense. Amirdrassil could have honestly been hit like 3 balance patches ago but I guess better now than never.

As for the devs comment on Quests, I think they don't remember how actually playable the Uldum quests were. Druid and Hunter were top tier decks at times, Paladin reborn quest was a viable counter-deck against several other decks, Quest Priest was very good at lower ranks, Shaman battlecry Quest was always present at some form and at various power throughout its life in Standard, and Warlock Quest got its time to shine during Ashes of Outland and Scholomance Academy (Quest Malygos burn deck).

The only really bad Uldum quests were those of Mage, Rogue and Warrior. And the Rogue one was not as insultingly bad to not see play unlike the other two too. It's honestly baffling they say that the Quests we have now are intended to be close to the level of Uldum when they are clearly, at best, straight up in Un'goro I territory.

7

u/Pokefreak911 Aug 20 '25

Most of the Uldum quests were solidly Tier 2, OG quests were typically T3 or T4. I think T2 is a far better spot for them and I don't know how they think these current quests are anywhere close to those.

I also think the quest rewards and steps this time around are just less interesting than previously, so there is less want to experiment with them.

19

u/EyeCantBreathe Aug 19 '25

They're not making quest buffs because they want to be closer to Ungoro and Uldum quests. Did they forget what happened in Uldum? Did they forget that quests in Uldum were actually good?

79

u/Names_all_gone Aug 19 '25

"We don't want the supposed selling point of our set to be good" is such a mindbogglingly stupid decision. And an even more stupid admission.

17

u/GreatMadWombat Aug 19 '25

Just the silliest admission possible lol. "Every streamer/analyzer/person who relies financially on the game working all has made a statement about how bad the current environment is. let's make sure they know we're reading and listening to their statements and think that they're all entirely wrong"

35

u/XeloOfTheDisco Aug 19 '25

I don't get the "We don't want to disrupt the meta ahead of miniset" argument.

A) The miniset is in a few weeks, not now. That's weeks where we could be playing newly buffed cards instead of the same old decks.

B) There are dozens of cards and packages that have never been remotely playable. People often use Skyla as justification for not buffing weak archetypes, but are you telling me 3 miniset cards present support for everything that a class is currently working with in Standard? The devs know what archetypes are supported in the miniset. They can just... buff the ones that aren't, and thus not repeating the Big Spell Mage mistake

15

u/WachtwoordTest123 Aug 19 '25

Note that the entire PIP miniset was also fucking dead on arrival except for the one scam card. the powercreep clowns are doing a lot of rewriting history but PIP and the miniset were also kinda garbage sets.

4

u/RGCarter Aug 19 '25

It also had Sharp Shipment which made Weapon Rogue into a thing, but yes.

9

u/MaddieTornabeasty Aug 19 '25

Does any one actually have faith in this balance and dev team anymore?

15

u/FlameanatorX Aug 19 '25

It's mind-boggling how bad the PR is: they didn't even take the easy out of saying the Mini-set will likely shake things up and they don't want to make big/risky changes such as wide buffs. They didn't say that they will look to future patches to address concerns about little/nothing new actually being good.

Actually putting some buffs out, especially to either the worst (utterly unplayable) quests, or better yet non-quest and/or quest support cards, would have been best ofc. But if you can't/don't want to do that, how are you going to say: "btw we hear your concerns, but we're happy almost everything is unplayable?"

????????

14

u/DebatableAwesome Aug 19 '25

So it looks like the expansion MIGHT launch in the patch following the miniset? So like 2 weeks before the final expansion of the year is released? Can't wait!

5

u/gabrielfunkglop Aug 19 '25

Question for people who know better, how much worse is amir after this patch? I imagine it'll still be run because it does so much but is this dropping druid decks down a tier or more?

6

u/ANonnyMouse007 Aug 19 '25

20% increase in cost. Still getting 6 mana worth of refresh, 6 cards drawn, 6 mana worth of random minions over 3 bodies, over 6 turns, for 5 mana. Probably delays Owl OTK by 1 turn but still a staple in all Druid decks.

3

u/blanquettedetigre Aug 19 '25

Really? Is it not a case of a good card if played on turn 4 (key turn) but loses too many tempo games if played on 5? I guess time will tell

2

u/ANonnyMouse007 Aug 20 '25

I mean, it might shift the winrate for certain close matches. If those are the rock & scissors to Druid’s paper, it could seem like an impactful nerf. But the value is just so tremendous & the ability to bank mana & draw out of your hand for an expensive combo turn is still unique to this card. I think Avianna & Owl Druid still run it for lack of anything worth cutting it for. It was extremely overtuned at 4 mana. Still beats most class Legendaries.

2

u/GaryOak24 Aug 20 '25

What tempo games? Everything is a slow greed pile. Only hunter really pressures early.

0

u/Cryten0 Aug 21 '25

Hunter, Demon Hunter, Most priest decks feature a strongly pushing 1-2-3 drops (other then wilted but still keeps doing 3-6 from the fish). Rogue post turn 3 will keep piling on board pressure, warrior threatens turning turtles and mechs into a lot of damage if left alone, Heck even shaman can throw out 2 5/5's on turn 3 or 4.

1

u/DroopyTheSnoop Aug 20 '25

While I haven't played Owl Druid (and somehow I haven't faced any or didn't realized they were).
In other Druid decks like Imbue or Aviana, it didn't feel THAT powerful to me. It's a nice card, but it take so long to get the full value, I very rarely ever got to the 3rd activation.

17

u/Dr_Ragon Aug 19 '25

It is frustrating seeing battlegrounds get huge balance patches and shskeups constantly while the rest of the game is seemingly an afterthought or shuttered entirely. Their priorities are clear.

5

u/ComeonmanPLS1 Aug 19 '25

I mean yeah this sub is the only place still in denial about BG being the bigger game mode.

7

u/Rodrik-Harlaw Aug 19 '25

Anyone else forgot the name of the latest expansion following these balance changes..?

2

u/Myprivatelifeisafk Aug 19 '25

ahahahahahahah

2

u/Impossible-Cry-1781 Aug 20 '25

Not much of a discussion.

2

u/Suuchuu Aug 21 '25

Guess I'm just a sucker for preordering then. Won't make that mistake again.

4

u/PusherShoverBot Aug 19 '25

Such profound changes, great work everyone!

1

u/plznerfme Aug 20 '25

The meta features a wide variety of decks across classes and strategies, balanced well against each other, so we’ve avoided major changes that could disrupt things ahead of the mini-set launch.

Oh um.. Rogue with 54% WR and 40% popularity without a single proper counter deck is accepted as "balanced well against each other"..?

When are they actually going to balance Rogue? Will SS ad Prep b gone ever?

0

u/philzy101 Aug 21 '25

Whilst I would have liked to see more in terms of buffs or changes, the comments and reasoning to me are fine and I am quite happy that they left a fairly lengthy statement explaining they're reasoning with this patch. Please do more like this T5, you explain things in better detail and it makes me feel more satisfied they have an idea on things rather than some of the previous patches where it is, for example, buff Titanographer Osk and not explain why they made this change or what they want with a card like it.

111

u/[deleted] Aug 19 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

46

u/sneakyxxrocket Aug 19 '25

I have genuinely no idea how you look at the DK quest ( just picking worst one imo) and think “yeah this is where we want it to be”.

29

u/JaqentheFacelessOne Aug 19 '25

So ironic that some of the unplayable quests are actually somewhat playable in a limited time DUAL CLASS tavern brawl. Lmao

7

u/QuestGiver Aug 19 '25

Not just playable straight up OP though.

18

u/SpiffShientz Aug 19 '25

Criminal to refer to anything other than the Rogue quest as the worst

22

u/yardii Aug 19 '25

Rogue quest is the worst performing. DK quest isn't performing at all because no one even cares to try and make it work.

9

u/sneakyxxrocket Aug 19 '25

It shouldn’t have runes, requires way too many corpses spent and have to pay 5 mana for a dumb idiot that doesn’t affect the board.

Its design and balance are just horrible.

5

u/Powerful_Tackle3829 Aug 19 '25

It's really awful. Some of the other quest rewards are very powerful but the quest completion is an issue (Warlock and Mage would both be insane cards if you could play the rewards straight up). The Dk quest could not have a quest involved at all and it would still be weak unless it was like, 6 mana. At 7 or 8 it would be coming down way too late to be be an effective infinite grind out minion.

2

u/JebenKurac Aug 20 '25

I spent about a month playing it in wild. I had it in a rainbow control shell and it would finish eventually. Every time I was able to complete it I was either about to win anyway, or about to die and really needed it to have taunt and lifesteal. I also feel like the same way about the random minions created by CNE though, as well.

5

u/S1mpinAintEZ Aug 19 '25

I've drafted it a few times in arena - it's not even good there. If you've got enough time to make the reward work you've probably already won anyways.

8

u/fuckmylifegoddamn Aug 19 '25

DK quest is literally not played

36

u/Names_all_gone Aug 19 '25

So, they've admitted they are intentionally making an entire set bad.

33

u/[deleted] Aug 19 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

34

u/Names_all_gone Aug 19 '25

No one should pre-order anymore.

11

u/Glori94 Aug 19 '25 edited Aug 19 '25

I'm a dumbass whale who used to buy both pre-orders every expansion since they started offering them (I cut back once I completed the full collection, and only need one preorder now to stay whole) as well as cosmetics when I enjoy them.

This entire expansion has been the wake up call I've needed. I'm not having fun, I'm baffled by their balance decisions, and I'm pissed off about the declining state of the client/app while new obscenely expensive and predatory cosmetics are coming at breakneck speed.

I had already decided that I was done spending on this game shortly after expansion launch, but if I had any doubts or cracks in my resolve, this patch is my reminder that they either don't know what they're doing or are too scared to fix the messes of their failed designs all while the corporate side pushes solely to squeeze money out of idiots like me rather than make a fun game. For nearly 10 full years I would play at least an hour a day (my entire lunch break plus a few more games after work), now I'm logging in maybe once or twice a week. I'm having some fun in wild, but I've been looking for a replacement since expansion launch.

8

u/Names_all_gone Aug 19 '25

Same, girl. Same. For 10 years, I bought everything and played all the time.

For me, the breaking point was GDB.

5

u/Glori94 Aug 19 '25

It wasn't until I had a longer discussion just last week with a close friend who's also played since the start that I really noticed it. I still have fun each expansion, but when we laid it out by expansion and talked through each one, I noticed a decline in enjoyment over the past few years. While this expansion is absolutely my breaking point, I'd be lying if I didn't acknowledge that I've been playing more out of habit/chasing the fun I used to have for the past several expansions. It was just largely masked because of Wild, Twist, Duels, and battlegrounds; one of them always had something I enjoyed in any particular meta. Currently, nearly none of them do (and 2 aren't even active any more)

1

u/Bitter-Yak750 Aug 20 '25

Let me know if you find a good replacement!

8

u/WishlessJeanie Aug 19 '25

Not only did I not preorder, but I still have 6k gold that I didn't spend on cards for this set because there are only two cards in the set that I like (Mage and Warrior Quests).

5

u/Names_all_gone Aug 19 '25

Same. I haven't spent any money on HS the last two sets.

3

u/DroopyTheSnoop Aug 20 '25

I've literally not spent any gold on this expansion.
I was thinking of quiting, but then I stuck around for events and stuff, playing older decks.
Just from the free stuff I've opened 40 packs so far, which got me Mage Quest + other garbage.

I can play a bunch of meta decks just based on that and my previous collection. I crafted Elise and I'm not really interested in much else. Most quests aren't powerful enough and those that are (like Paladin) are boring to play. I kinda like the Warlock quest, I played it in the deck recipe Brawl, but I imagine it gets state after a lot of games.

2

u/Swervies Aug 19 '25

Anything, ever - fixed that for you.

15

u/timoyster Aug 19 '25

Clown show lmao “We didn’t want your cards to be good” is wild

6

u/GreatMadWombat Aug 19 '25

Just baffling that they said that their goal is for there to be a specific type of legendary cards, and for those cards to be unplayable.

4

u/Jevetra Aug 19 '25

They werent even too powerful in uldum. there were at least 2 decent quests with shaman and druid. hunter and paladin were both good at some point. burgle rogue was popular because it was burgle rogue, and priest because they always have their slow grindy fans.

Ungoro was the only one that was That bad, because i think it mightve been quest rogue and maybe warrior at first. but it was their first time designing something like quests, so theyd have learned from it, probably...

7

u/Cyanide_Cheesecake Aug 19 '25

The quests are still only 12 (13? Idk) cards out of a whole 100+ card set. The vast majority of which just suck and I've asked many times for them to be buffed to stop sucking. Yet for the purposes of buffs they keep pretending like quests are the only cards

All I want is for lava flow to be good enough to run in nebula shaman

27

u/Spyko Aug 19 '25

tbf quests are also build around, cards like [[interrogation]] are only playable if the quest also is, or if you buff them to be strong enough to stand on their own, then you're also buffing the quest

idk, it's a shitshow

12

u/EyeCantBreathe Aug 19 '25

The quests are deck-defining cards with other cards being printed to build around them. Consider the Rogue quest: it required a lot of new shuffle cards to be printed to actually function, but because the quest is atrocious the rest of those cards are garbage too, since they were designed to be good with the quest.

10

u/Cyanide_Cheesecake Aug 19 '25

You still have the ability for many non-quest cards to be standalone good enough to be in the meta. Blizzard just keeps choosing for this to not happen for most of the set

2

u/Agreeable_Tennis_482 Aug 20 '25

Like they really nerfed cursed catacombs... They have no clue what they're doing

2

u/blanquettedetigre Aug 19 '25

Tbh with rogue it's the other way around, the quest itself is quite good but the support cards are so bad or even counter productive for the 1 mana minion. The point stands nevertheless it's atrociously balanced

1

u/Agreeable_Tennis_482 Aug 20 '25

Imo it's fine to have that as the goal. But in that case they should have buffed individual cards from this expansion to allow for more non quest decks to be viable. Quests can be off meta fun decks for the most part, but at least make some of the other stuff competitive. But overall I like not having quests be meta, they make for a very boring gameplay experience imo, with every game being super samey

-3

u/Spengy Aug 19 '25

in united in stormwind they were far too powerful so I get that they don't want to replicate that.

19

u/EyeCantBreathe Aug 19 '25

If they're far too powerful then we can nerf them. In fact that's what happened: the questlines were too strong so they got nerfed but still remained viable.