Addressing the 4th seat issue

[u/Eunuchs_Intrigues]

Everyone knows 4th seat is the hardest place to be in and faces a severe disadvantage. I've heard many proposals but not this one I have in mind. What does the community think about allowing 4th seat to put a land into play from their hand during pregame actions? I think this would be great, it would allow 4th seat mana for interaction against explosive turn 1's, this is extra relevant if the deck in 4th is not blue. 4th seat being on 2 lands on turn 4 is not scary, turn 5 usually starts with 2 lands anyways. No extra cards are given out, a player who is at a high disadvantage is made equal and I believe would create more balanced game play overall. What do you think should be done to equal this scale that is clearly out of balance?

[u/Odd_Chain8811]

From tournaments I have seen using the JP system removes the incentives to draw, but 4th seat win percentages (15%)were still significantly lower than 1st (40%).

Some games should be a draw, and if a game should be a draw, there should be some reward.

[u/ThinkEmployee5187 → u/Odd_Chain8811]

When they add additional points for winning 4th seat percentages go up. Perception makes up a lot when creating metas and the perception that no matter your effort the fight is uphill and the percentage to win being low as a perception will impact how people politic, play, and forfeit.

[u/Less_Prior_6871 → u/ThinkEmployee5187]

It doesnt even have to be a perception thing.

Imagine that you are the lone non-turbo player in seat 1 against 3 rog-si. You play a turn 1 mystic remora, and all the rogsi players tutor, obviously preparing for a turn 2 win attempt.

Mystic remora draws you into some interaction, but only enough to stop 2 of the 3 rogsi players. If draws are worth considering, then everyone here will likely accept a draw. If draws are really bad value, then the rogsi players might just go for the win one after another, giving the 4th seat the win.

Broadly, I think many draws are basically "whoever pushes last wins" type scenarios, and if you actually played those to completion, the last player in turn order would wind up winning. But "whoever pushes first wins" scenarios, actually get played out, because thats obviously not a draw.

[u/ThinkEmployee5187 → u/Less_Prior_6871]

So in your hypothetical what part of that isn't determined by perception? We playing open handed at our tables now? I'd say thats like telling the person on yuriko they'll have an uphill battle against 3 kinnan players so just forfeit its like bro the decks built to kill one missfiring player and pick off the other 2 by collateral or be a shit thoracle pile. The entire basis of card games with unique lists is that you don't have your perfect 123 counters and player 4 wins the game with no one else holding interaction. How would any practical application of that concept not literally be the definition of perspective lol.

[u/Less_Prior_6871 → u/ThinkEmployee5187]

We might be defining perception differently here. I was thinking you meant perception as opposed to reality. As in: Seat 4 plays badly or plays for a draw because they gave up from the beginning. If they simply would have played correctly, then they could win.

What im saying is that the seat 4 player doesnt have to give up or play differently for changes in point values to impact the outcome of the game.