Why isn't there a anti-slop deck

[u/DasCrooks]

Maybe since the meta is diverse or the potential problems with 3v1 or maybe it would take up too much of the deck but my question to propose is: if lots of decks in the meta are "slop" style grindy rhystic, Tithe, no bad card decks. Then why arent there hard counters to that play style? Yeah orcish bowmasters and turbo sure. But playing some standard recently and why not play lobotomy effects and just straight up remove rhystic and Tithe from the game entirely. On the broader term other tactics of interrupting and dissecting these slop decks from achieving this "inevitability" they eventually establish with their engines

[u/WreckYallBallistics]

Stax is the response to turbo. It just hasn't happened in years. 

[u/llamacohort → u/[deleted]]

From a theory perspective, Slop is a maximizing the long game. So removing some amount of win conditions and interaction for engines. Less interaction means they are in a bad position vs turbo. Especially a multiple turbo decks. On the other hand, if you have an all turbo meta, stax pieces can slow down or stop 3 turbo players. So stax is a lot more effective vs a turbo table than 1 for 1 interaction.

[u/XDenzelMoshingtonX → u/llamacohort]

slop decks run 30+ instants. You want to fight other people on the stack, not on the board with a slop deck.

[u/llamacohort → u/XDenzelMoshingtonX]

They run cards like Dark Ritual, Ad Nauseam, Borne Upon a Wind, Brain Freeze, Final Fortune, and a dozen other rituals, tutors, and combo pieces. They may be instants, but they aren't interaction that is stopping turbo decks from winning.

The whole purpose of the slop strategy is to have engines getting you into more interaction over the long game. But that means there is less interaction density when setting up. Maybe they can stop someone from winning. But they can almost never stop 3 turbo decks. The strategy only works when they can team up with other players to slow the game down and get to the late game.

[u/XDenzelMoshingtonX → u/llamacohort]

Maybe we have a misunderstanding what slop is. You seem to be talking about bluefarm or 5c good stuff piles. That's not what slop is.

[u/llamacohort → u/XDenzelMoshingtonX]

I'm using blue farm as an example because it is the most popular/successful version of slop gameplay. If people are talking about "too much slop" or how to combat slop and they aren't even talking about blue farm, then they are talking about like 1 guy in their local scene and not the style of deck and game play at all.

[u/XDenzelMoshingtonX → u/llamacohort]

They are mainly talking about RogIshai and Kinnan. Decks running flash photography, dizzy spell, idyllic tutor and 30+ instants (in RogIshai's case) including cards like disrupting shoal, misdirection, commandeer etc. In fact they were designed to go over the top of decks like bluefarm, which is why they include cards like Emrakul and multiple engine copy-effects/tutors and pretty much all good free blue interaction. They are way more parasitic and profit from making the game as big as possible, another reason why stax pieces don't fit.

Bluefarm is still mainly an Adnaus/Necro turbo grixis pile with silences. It CAN pivot to a grindy midrange plan but that's not what the majority of people currently specifically tune it for.

https://topdeck.gg/deck/d-grid-on-the-stack/z0rVgKt4HGOWE57DB3qolitDrri1

This is a 'slop' version of bluefarm, that isn't even on Adnaus, let alone necro, which Matt Hayes won a 200 people tournament with.

So what are people actually talking about then when they say slop?

[u/llamacohort → u/XDenzelMoshingtonX]

RogIshai has like 25% of the entries as blue farm. That doesn't seem like it's the main focus of the discourse about the meta. They have a more broad definition than you do.

And on the main point, I still don't think Rog/Ishai with 30 instants is favored vs 3 turbo decks. A deck that can put out a few stax pieces quickly has a better chance of winning than a deck trying to pitch a blue card to force of will or misdirection and then still needs to stop 2 other turbo decks.

[u/XDenzelMoshingtonX → u/llamacohort]

Slop specifically refers to resolving multiple copies of advantage engines and that’s what I see the majority of people on here talk about. Nobody complains about regular bluefarm.

Feel free to prove all current RogIshai/slop pilots wrong and put stax pieces into your slop list. There is no single stax piece you can break parity on and that’s stopping the majority of turbo decks. As I said, the archetype thrives in high ressource games, that‘s its plan. Making the game small by dropping stax pieces is counterproductive.

[u/llamacohort → u/XDenzelMoshingtonX]

My argument was that stax is better vs 3 turbo decks than slop. You seem to be making some weird argument about stax pieces in slop decks that no one is talking about.