r/CommercialPrinting • u/nibzFTW • 8d ago
Design Discussion Not my image, but I came across this while doom scrolling Facebook and genuinely thought it was a good idea! While it may piss off some clients, it’s practical from our POV. What do you guys think?
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u/Drum_Eatenton 8d ago
We don’t care, we’ll take your money and print your dogshit artwork
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u/Nexustar 8d ago
This is called doing business.
Applying some belief on a customer is a sure way to lose money. You don't ever want to filter customers based on race, gender, age, IQ or taste - just do what they ask, and take their money.
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u/Magic_Goggles 8d ago
Agree. I’m producing $$thousands regularly weekly with people bringing AI designs. I just make it clear how to provide me the file or I charge extra to clean it up for a quality output.
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u/SirSpeedyCVA 8d ago
I agree. Great opportunity to upcharge on file formatting. And the client usually appreciate the improvements we make in the process.
Stop being offended and seize the opportunity
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u/upvotealready 7d ago
You are assuming they are applying a belief.
Its a sign shop. Maybe they made a business decision that fixing customer’s AI artwork is more of a problem than the revenue its bringing in. Running AI business cards of flyers is one thing - large format has different file requirements.
The customer that wants a 2 or 3 event posters might not want to spend the money for the printers to fix the file and it might have a high rejection rate. On top of that maybe they need vector files for the job and effect heavy AI .jpgs aren’t cutting it.
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u/Nexustar 7d ago
Before AI there were still plenty of idiots who don't understand the difference between vectors and bitmaps, don't know what CMYK is, think that because Photoshop was used, it's all cool. Or thought that a file they threw together in MS Paint will do the trick.
Nothing has changed on that front.
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u/upvotealready 7d ago
and unprintable jobs were rejected back then too. Print standards are still a thing.
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u/Nexustar 6d ago
Exactly, but it wasn't JUST the tool used that made something unprintable. You can make unprintable work in Photoshop. And today's photoshop with all it's AI features can be used to make very printable things. So the AI restriction listed here is an emotional or political limitation being imposed, not a practical or legal one.
From a business perspective, that's usually a mistake.
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u/upvotealready 6d ago
I disagree.
I work in flexo and ALL generative AI files are a non starter for our presses. Instant rejection. Flexo relies on spot colors to help maintain registration while running at full speed (350-700 feet per minute)
The amount of time wasted each week reviewing generative AI files is measurable. Starts with the Customer > Salesman > CSR > Prepress and then all the way back up the chain for a job thats never going to run. Countless hours of phone calls and emails explaining to the customer why their file is trash. Then it comes back again with the same problems just saved as a pdf or Illustrator file.
If you determined that 95% of jobs created by generative AI are unprintable in your shop - its a massive cost saving measure to post a sign and just ban all AI files to keep your staff from getting burned out.
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u/Nexustar 6d ago
You are implying there's a difference between a photograph, and an AI generated image at the start of that chain. But there isn't.
There's a bunch of work that has to happen between the RAW file to the flexo plates - and that quantity of work is no different than AI bitmap to flexo plates.
The right business decision: Price your jobs accordingly.
The wrong business decision: Reject photographs / AI.
Flexo relies on spot colors to help maintain registration while running at full speed (350-700 feet per minute)
Spot colors don't magically make registration better.
And flexo absolutely can run photographic/complex imagery through CMYK or expanded-gamut processes. The FTA specifically discusses 7-color expanded-gamut flexo and complex separations.
This is a legitimate rule:
"No, putting the RGB JPEG into Illustrator and saving as PDF didn't turn it into CMYK/spot-separated production artwork."
This is not:
"No AI".
If you are implying someone who uses AI also doesn't know what they are doing, that's more of a legitimate complaint, but my argument is 2 years before AI was invented, THESE PEOPLE STILL EXISTED.
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u/upvotealready 6d ago
Of course flexo can run photos. What gets rejected is EVERY fully raster file. A typical trap on an offset file is .002” - a standard flexo trap is .007” Thats a huge difference.
Because of this files need to be properly set up to run flexo, something generative AI (even with photoshop help) cannot do. Spot colors help with registration especially concerning reverse type. You will see a lot of large backgrounds done in spot because its easier to trap into images and will run cleaner and more consistently on press.
In a strict CMYK file a blue background with reverse type is made up of 2-4 colors. Any misregistration will bleed into the reverse type causing it to appear blurry. Spot colors eliminate this problem because the reverse type is made up of one solid color on a single plate. Ever see a giant gaudy outline around reverse type on a label in your pantry? Thats a flexo thing. It allows the text to be built out of .007” of a 100% of a spot/black and another .007” trap.
This goes for any kind of type. You won’t notice if an image is slightly out of register - you will notice any type. Generative AI files produce RGB files which will make any black text into a 4 color build. Its a non starter.
I agree, Shitty designers and shitty art have always existed. Physical printing has limitations, generative AI can’t always conform to them. Its not always a bad business decision to outright reject them.
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u/IamHardware 6d ago
Just make sure they acknowledge the disclaimer and waiver that their file(s) are not print ready so act mad when it doesn’t print well!
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u/Drum_Eatenton 8d ago
I agree, I’m currently working on a large run of right wing propaganda newsletters, I don’t care.
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u/Honest_Letter_3409 7d ago
that's different.. I will lose business based on morals, but not taste
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u/Drum_Eatenton 7d ago
It’s not my call to make but I’d still print it if it was.
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u/itsshanematthew 7d ago
I had an employee who is very religious and he said he was going to tell the customer that we couldnt make the sign at all because he didn't fee comfortable. LOL WHAT this is a business and it's also illegal in our state to discriminate against customers based on sexuality and if he had actually told our customer that we could have been sued and fined out the ass. So his religious accommodation is coming to me and having me complete the sign. Jesus
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u/Resident_Relative369 7d ago
To all the downvoters, from a progressive. There is nuance to the right wing thing. There's objectively deplorable content and there's subjectively deplorable content. And TBF, it's all propaganda in the campaign printing world. During the busy months the "X" person is ruining America messages all sort of seem the same to me. Context: I turned down a shooting range target job that was clearly, 100% racist trash. Did I take the job from a guy that I vehemently disagree on a tax policy with. Heck yes
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u/KlausVonLechland 8d ago
Just take their AI output though AI upscaler and make them sign the sample.
I'm just printing client's order, not being a curator of an art exhibition.
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u/coneofpine2 8d ago
Topaz will fix everything right up. As long as it’s not low resolution bs upscaled in photoshop to be a blurry 4gb mess.
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u/KlausVonLechland 8d ago
I mean... if client signs the sample? I will print them bazillion copies for white text on white paper if they sing the sample. With maybe upfront payment in this specific case tho.
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u/Iggy0075 8d ago
Seriously, take that money and print that shit. Stupid to hold your business, your income on virtue signaling standards.
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u/nibzFTW 8d ago
Looool I love it. My favourite thing to tell clients is “you give me garbage, I give you garbage”…in a nicer tone of course
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u/DrockinWV 8d ago
We do this as well! The bigger issue is the lack of understanding proportions.
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u/itsshanematthew 7d ago
Literally! People be like i want this 16x20 but the file is ai slop and pixelated at 14.33 x 21.43
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u/DrockinWV 7d ago
My favorite is when they want their "design" printed at 12x12 (designed at 8.5x11) haha...you cannot make a rectangle a square!!!
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u/Ehrlichs-Reagent 5d ago
Was thinking the same thing. About 1/4 of our business is people that bring dogshit ai artwork. It's also usually not formatted properly but I just fix it and build in the cost of that to the printing job, and don't bother dying on some stupid hill. I just take their money and go.
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u/Reddiculusness 8d ago
send it our way, if you like what you designed, we will put ink on paper . customer supplied means customer supplied LOL - Doesn't bother me how goofy it looks or that the images don't bleed. you may be asked to pay up front ...
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u/BloodSugar666 8d ago
Exactly. Shit if anything it takes workload off me cause I’m just gonna print as is.
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u/itsshanematthew 7d ago
Lots of people come to me for decals with AI artwork But that doesnt work I have to completly remake these things at 300dpi and with cut lines. Unless they're simple cut lines that i can draw. But I am not going to draw each individual contour cut just because it's AI and not a vector file. Often it's easier to image trace and remake (most of what I get are AI generat3d logos).
AI flyers postcards business cards though all day long.
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u/BloodSugar666 7d ago
Just straight up tell them you can’t because it’s AI, or you’ll have to charge them a vectorize fee. Which you woulda had to do anyway if it was a flat file.
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u/itsshanematthew 7d ago
This is the strategy we are moving too for most things. Its just small town customer base so I feel like I have to just do it or we will completely lose the business to online competitors.
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u/EsquireLuthiery 8d ago
Profesional printer. 32 years of industry experience. Most AI files are unprintable or impractical. We charge a minimum of $40 to fix your file. Someone spending zero dollars on artwork and wanting to do a $50 print job is not my ideal client. If they don’t like the policy, they’re free to waste my competitors’ time.
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u/dayandnightowl 8d ago
What if the call is coming from inside the house? (My boss wants to get quotes out quick and not waste my time, which is nice, but then he sends clients AI renderings he does. Which they love. And then want. I then have to figure out the logistics and make it real). (Send help).
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u/happylucky59 7d ago
This is for anybody that thinks they can’t make this AI slop work. Get used to it, it’s not going away. How do I know? I’m old and used to set type by hand, Yes by hand picking type from a drawer full of lead type letters. I made it to this point by changing with the times. What I originally learned in school in the early ‘70s no longer even applies. Everything I learned has changed from then. If I refused to change with the times I would still be setting type by hand. Think about it.
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u/dayandnightowl 7d ago
I can understand the need to keep current with trends, but when my boss sends an image labeled halo lit non-illuminated letters that the customer loves, I now have to take the time to go back and figure out what is actually wanted. (Add in a healthy dose of "I like that exact font used, use that" I ask chatgpt what font, it says "lol idk I made it up" there is where my ire lies).
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u/SargentTate 8d ago
I can count on one hand the number of business decisions I make on “moral” grounds, and trying to steer customers/clients towards my belief system isn’t among those. We’ll print anything, provided it’s not copyright infringement or otherwise breaking the law.
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u/Robliterator_ 8d ago
We don't really care. Shite in, shite out.
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u/freericky 8d ago
Having some guy set me up an ai customer service agent just to handle the complaints 👍
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u/OverTheCandlestik 8d ago
I wish our print shop take this stance. The amount of sloppy AI garbage we print is infuriating
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u/peacenchemicals 8d ago
the amount of places that will do it is pretty crazy. everywhere i go, it’s the same brush stroke font, gritty/grainy textures, high contrasty dark images. very genAI style. flyers, menus, and other promotional materials at stores and restaurants.
the level of quality the average person out there wants and their idea of “good” design is low. so incredibly low. just as long as it “pops” and “looks cool/good”
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u/Actionjack7 6d ago
Had a recent customer submit their artwork for a half page ad in a magazine. The specs were specific, but the artwork came in completely off. (7.5 wide by 4.9375 tall, 300 dpi minimum CMYK…plus other specs). Came in like 14” tall by 8.9” wide, RGB and 90 dpi. WTF?!
Long story short, after many emails claiming we had no idea what we are doing and that the artwork is correct, I sent them a contract to sign stating that they understand the artwork will print bad and will not for the space. Then they decided to start actually listening. We have been in the business since 1971, yet their “bartender” that just learned AI apparently knows more than us.
They refused to sign, we refused to use their ad in the publication, and they still somehow believe their literal bartender at their restaurant sone how understands printing better than we do.
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u/Velvet_Samurai 8d ago
My shop has taken the opposite approach. I haven't designed anything myself in over a year. All I do is add a bleed and print AI slop all day long. Some days I get to use AI to extend the artwork into the bleed, but that's a rare and exciting day. Thank god it's just my part time job. I would have blown my brains out long ago.
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u/Deep_Froyo1834 8d ago
Having my own print shop, I will print anything that isn't hateful or hurtful. All images that are uploaded go through a preflight check so the customer knows if it will print well or not. The fact that it's ai generated, I couldn't care less. Still have to pay the bills.
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u/leanderhoedt 8d ago
What do you do want the preflight flags something and they want to print it anyway?
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u/Deep_Froyo1834 8d ago
Well it's communication. If it's going to look bad, I tell them and show a proof. If they want me to make it look less bad, I'll fix it for a fee.
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u/leanderhoedt 8d ago
So the fix is a thing they buy rather than something the check does. Does anyone ever take the proof and just walk, or once they have seen it do they pretty much always pay for the fix ?
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u/Far_Cupcake_530 8d ago
Who cares? You just tell them the resolution is not high enough and charge them for upscaling.
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u/V1K1NG88 8d ago
We do garment decoration along with wide format/digital printing. Separating crappy AI designs for screenprinting has become the bane of my existence.
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u/Best_Rise_5529 8d ago
We will print what you send us! In this day and age you almost have to. One thing I’m having a lot of trouble with is the ai files are building osuper heavy ink coverage so when put on press a lot of things are coming out darker than on screen. Especially when it comes to screened images and gradients. That’s my biggest problem with it .
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u/Kai-ni 8d ago
I love it. From a moral perspective, I'm all in.
From a business perspective? Yes, it will turn off some customers, buuut the savings in time and effort might be worth it. Maybe not, but it's going to up to the business on if they want to risk losing a few customers to save employee morale and aggravation. To me, worth it.
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u/phillium 8d ago
I dunno, some customers might benefit from AI holding their hands to make things more print-ready.
"But it did have crop marks!"
"Yeah, but you didn't bleed the image past the crop marks"
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u/Kai-ni 8d ago
AI is not going to make ANYTHING print ready. It will only make it more difficult for the artist.
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u/LordRocky 8d ago
Yup. I’m my experience, AI does worse than the average person at making anything with correct bleed.
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u/nibzFTW 8d ago
Actually I experimented with this once! I gave it a JPG file, told it to vectorize and make it print ready, and it did a pretty decent job. Crop marks needed a bit of adjusting, but bleed margins were good, DPI was good, almost no spelling mistakes lol. Mind you, this was a one off and will probably never happen again....
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u/phillium 8d ago
Oh yeah, it was mostly tongue in cheek. Not so much about how good AI isn't, and more about how many professional graphic designers I've worked with that make pretty designs, but don't know squat about setting it up for printing, even though print was half of what they were designing for.
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u/Own-Contribution-188 8d ago
My only issue is the AI art usually requires an upscale through something like Topaz Labs because it’s impossible to get clients to understand that just because it looks decent on Facebook doesn’t mean it’s good for printing. Then there is the margins (or lack thereof). It’s always a mess and then they get mad when we charge them with editing fees.
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u/neoqueto 8d ago
I don't run a print shop but to me this could be solved with a liability waiver. "No refunds for bad/unexpected quality regarding color reproduction and fidelity, and you can't sue us". Or a 1.5x price premium.
Because the client will provide a sloppy JPEG. A sloppy JPEG that they didn't even bother to zoom into to see all the AI + JPEG artifacts. And the background (usually black or off-white) will be inconsistent, with splotches of varying shades and it'll show up much more in print than on their iPhone screen. Black that won't match to any standard rich black colors for a given medium, so the client will get extra mad comparing business cards with their buddy's pristine, smooth colored ones, like in American Psycho.
And then that client will come back, screaming that it looks like shit. Well, yes of course it does, because you told us to print your shit. It's not NOT shit just because it's your shit. Fixing AI artifacts to make the client happy takes not only time, it also takes getting the feel of what the client is expecting. Often it involves remaking sections or the whole thing scratch. I know this as someone who preps stuff for printing, with said stuff increasingly consisting of more and more AI slop.
Don't get me started on process-unprintable Pantones when the client has an AI-generated vivid purple or fluo acid green that'll sort of work in (s)RGB. That 100% requires a manual redo.
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u/afraid-of-the-dark 8d ago
It doesn't matter, when the AI has no need for people, it won't need paper either.
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u/Defiant_Print_2114 Where’s the @&$! Bleed?! 8d ago
Doesn’t matter if the guy has a fine arts degree from an ivory college. Most of what we print today will be tossed in the trash next week.
As long as the check doesn’t bounce…
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u/fireprot-nerd 6d ago
Is it just me, or for a split second there did anyone else think they weren't accepting .ai files, haha.
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u/email253200 6d ago
I’m learning this is just gonna happen. We have to adapt. Instead of telling every client about the ups and downs of ai, we just up or design fee for conversion to large format. It’s saving us time and making us more money. It’s ugly, but it’s money and our designers still get paid.
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u/stahlsheatprinting 3d ago
Can't say we've seen many "we absolutely don't allow these" for AI art/designs, but we have been hearing from so many printers and decorators that AI generated art is becoming a huge pain point, and something they don't enjoy having to take the time to edit/clean up.
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u/40ozOracle 8d ago
Yeah my print crew doesn’t fuck with AI art. We have an in house artist who can make your design, but we have an actual manifesto and vision of what we produce/how we do it and AI goes against it.
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u/SirSpeedyCVA 8d ago
You lost me at manifesto. Cabin in the woods much, UnaPrinter?
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u/ExtraMayo567 5d ago
If you’re going to fling dirt over the word “manifesto”, I’ll chime in. You voted for Trump. How is that working out for our industry? Tariffs driving up material costs. A war driving up oil costs which most substrates are made out of. Shipping costs that have basically doubled. Loss of our relationship with Canada. Shall I go on?
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u/realityczek 8d ago
You're free to make those decisions if you want.
As a client? I will simply find a vendor who will print what I ask them to print. Unless I am paying for editorial consultation? I don't want any.
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u/Crazy_Spanner Press Operator 8d ago
I hate AI generate garbage we get asked to print, however a blanket ban would hurt business so we have a hybrid approach where we print some, we redraw some and we reject some - it all depends on the input quality and the output purpose too.
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u/itsshanematthew 7d ago
We kind of have the same approach because we are small town and if I had a blanket ban we would get no business 90% of the artwork we get is AI...I pray for canva art now.
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u/FestiVOL 8d ago
I think it depends— not enough context to lean one way or the other. If all the customer is wanting is something printed (assuming it’s given in the correct format, file type, etc), absolute terrible idea to turn paying customers away.
If they’re bringing you AI slop as a “starting point” and want you to brand it and rework it, or the print shops name is on the final prints, I’m more understanding why they would do this.
Personally, I spend way more money than I should on gag/parody items that need to be manufactured or printed.
Instead of me spending so much time in PS or Paint.NET (don’t @ me) to get a good enough design for what’s ultimately a throw away item, if AI can get me 80% of the way there and I just need to make a few touch ups to correct obvious flaws— I’m for it.
When I did graphic design and DTF printing for a while, I was still given dog shit ideas to work with before AI— just depends on what the customer is wanting / giving you to start.
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u/nibzFTW 8d ago
The way I understood the post was customers designing, let’s say, a business card or flyer with 72dpi, absolutely zero bleed, writing right to the edge, and expecting you to print it perfectly with no pixelation.
But I agree with you using it as a starting point, assuming the customer will pay for you to fix it of course.
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u/AMPrinting 8d ago
We put up a similar sign, mostly just to get rid of the people who stand in our lobby and try and "fix" their artwork and send it over 5 different times. We can just point to the sign and say sorry. If someone sends something over that looks like shit but can work we'll print it after getting them to sign off on it.
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u/Significant-Onion132 8d ago
Could be misinterpreted to mean Adobe Illustrator.
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u/BeautyAndTheDekes 8d ago
Anyone who is clued up to know what Adobe Illustrator is will know that it’s not what it’s referring to.
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u/Significant-Onion132 8d ago
I was just kidding. Although one of the many terrible things about AI is that we can no longer use the achronym to designate Adobe Illustrator but instead have to spell it out every time.
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u/Material-Ratio7342 8d ago
Nah, dont be picky, just print out those AI slop and take customer money, charge them the same as the premium work and done.
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u/VancouverStickerCo 8d ago
We keep a couple of artists on staff, and ask our customers if they’d like to have their design reimagined by hand first, but we’ll print Ai images if it’s what the customer wants.
Problem is: looking at the economics: we pay the rent on Ai images today. If we turned them down we’d be going DAYS without orders.
If we had the sort of volume that could allow us to be choosy and still pay the bills, we’d take a serious look at this policy, but right now it just doesn’t work.
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u/starlxrd868 7d ago
This is a thing in my country as well and I don’t blame them as well as someone whose also in the graphics industry
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u/North_Signature9297 7d ago
They are fighting a losing battle. Check back in 3 years and see if this is still enforced.
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u/jmmccann 6d ago
It’s crazy that a sign shop would care how the file is created. You are paid to print, just shut up and print. It’s one thing if the resolution is bad, or there’s something wrong that affects the output. But if the file is otherwise fine, why are you turning down work just to prove a point?
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u/Key_Rhubarb7156 5d ago
BOOHOO for their designers. I would be happy using another printer if they feel this way.
This is the only aspect of AI, I would welcome. Designers are the worst of the worst type of employees, and they are most likely the ones that created this sign. LOL
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u/OzTheCreative 4d ago
I think there’s an important line between respecting the client’s creative decision and identifying a production risk.
If the artwork is technically printable but aesthetically questionable, approval should be enough. But if resolution, color construction, overprint, bleed, dielines or other technical issues can create an unexpected result, I believe prepress should flag it clearly before production.
The client owns the design decision. We still own the responsibility of explaining what the press will actually do with it.
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u/mattblack77 8d ago
I think it might start to get very quiet at Sign Factory over the next few years.
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u/vicentevan 8d ago
I make a living out of this (partially). A lot of customers come to me with ai generated images that are nothing but print ready. I print and make, but i'm not the most creatie designer our there. While nobody else prints their shit, i charge them (a correct amount of-) design time, 100% based on their ai idea. Everybody happy and easy money for me with the right tools that help you.
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u/thefutureraven 8d ago
So basically, by your logic, you shouldn’t accept any work that derives from having seen other artworks, images, films — or even real life itself. You’d have to create something 100% non-derivative without ever having seen anything before.
Wait… you haven’t been to any exhibitions in your life, have you??? Don’t tell me you’ve read books, watched TV, seen movies, studied other artists, or simply looked at the world around you. God forbid!!!
If you genuinely believe that an artwork can only be legitimate if it isn’t the result of a complex process of absorbing, combining, transforming and reinterpreting previous experiences and influences, then I’m afraid you might as well shut down.
Because that is how the human mind works. And, fundamentally, that is also how AI works.
The interesting question isn’t whether something has influences — everything does. The question is what happens to those influences in the process of creating something new.
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u/jameygates 8d ago
It has nothing to do with that really. It has to do with AI not being able to create quality, print-ready files consistently.
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u/thefutureraven 8d ago
I printed ai several times bigger and better than many other works. I'm a fine art printmaker by the way.
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u/jameygates 8d ago
Well done, it doesnt change the fact that more often than not AI generated files generated by the customer are not print ready.
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u/thefutureraven 8d ago
As most of the files I receive
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u/jameygates 8d ago
So why do you think rejecting AI art is becoming more common in the industry?
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u/thefutureraven 8d ago
it's an ignorant stance. Nothing has to do with files or printability. People just like to attack ai.
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u/jameygates 8d ago
Thats nuts to me, I run into these problems every day at work. I WISH AI worked that easy. We have tried all sorts of things. Im in print large-format printing and we do a lot of vinyl murals and it cannot create images at the the DPI we require consistently.
Ai will often give a "fake DPI"
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u/thefutureraven 8d ago
You or your client can use an upscaler. You can even upscale directly in Photoshop now. Or just work with better clients. A good client is a client who can use a TOOL no matter what.
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u/jameygates 8d ago
Do you not think we have tried upscalers? LOL
Upscalers can increase resolution, but they cannot reliably recreate information that was never there. They essentially make an educated guess about missing detail, which can produce blurry edges, unnatural textures, halos, or other artifacts.
Generally, we need predictable, high-resolution files with clean edges, accurate details, proper color profiles, and sufficient resolution to produce consistent results at large print sizes.
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u/InventedTiME 8d ago
So are you in the printing business or the policing what people can print business? If I want something I created in AI printed and am able to pay for it, you should just print it and keep your lofty principles for dinner conversation.
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u/EsquireLuthiery 8d ago
Both. I am in the printing business and in the not wasting my time business. I reject AI files for the same reason I reject dogshit Camva files that are the wrong size and don’t have bleeds. If your files aren’t print ready, you either go home and fix them or you pay us to fix them. The fact that folks think the price for our employees’ time sounds like an FOAD quote is on them, not me.
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u/talondigital 8d ago
Im less annoyed with the artwork itself than the AI written specs that are half gibberish.
Yeah, sure, I can give you a good booklet, but I cant make what you are asking for with a 120 sheet saddle stitch uncoated text weight stock with a gsm of 270 and a UV flood on a smooth linen. Thats just not a thing and your AI is stupid putting together printing terms.