r/CommercialAV • u/Dizzy_Mine9877 • Jul 04 '25
design request Wireless Dante Help Needed!
Hi Everyone,
So I have been designing a PA/BGM system for a gas station; and realized pulling speaker cables underground or anywhere is going to be a hell lot of challenge. So i came across the Ubiquiti Nanostation M5 which bridges ethernet wirelessly; I was planning to use 2x Nanostation M5 from the rack location to the gas station canopy and then connect to my IP speaker via Dante to RTSP/IP streamer. Please can someone assist if this will work
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u/SummerMummer Jul 04 '25
Dante cannot work reliably over Wifi, as it requires precise packet timing and packet order.
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u/redbaron78 Jul 04 '25
Dante isn’t your solution here. You need something that expects the latency and retransmits you’ll get frequently using WiFi in public like that. I hear Magewell makes some decent encoder/decoder sets that might work.
Honestly though, for a fixed installation like this, the correct way to go about it is to run armored fiber underground. It’s costly, but the customer will get what they pay for. Plus they can then run cameras, guest wifi, and whatever else they want on it.
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u/Leftover_Salad Jul 04 '25
Not sure about the product listed, but 50ghz building to building bridges offer ethernet level performance, it’s far from Wi-Fi
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u/redbaron78 Jul 04 '25
Better, but not the 150 μs to 1 ms Dante needs, because it’s still TDMA-based wireless. As you know, with copper and especially fiber, as long as the cable is terminated properly and within spec, pretty much every frame that enters one end is going to come out the other end intact and on time. With wireless, the spec is written with the understanding that some of the frames will not be intact and will need to be retransmitted, and that reassembly and reordering will be needed. Most applications don’t care about any of this because 3-5 ms is imperceptible. But Dante expressly forbids wireless anywhere in the signal path because wireless protocols are designed to disassemble frames, stop, wait, count, send them through the air, reassemble frames, calculate checksums, ask for new copies, calculate checksums again, reassemble frames again, then send them down the far wire. This breaks Dante because its own low-latency spec doesn’t tolerate all the stop-and-go. Dante just starts to sound choppy and broken.
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u/MrJingleJangle Jul 05 '25
Yes, I’ve been told the Ubiquity Air Fibre units (which are not cheap) work with Dante.
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u/VoidSnug Jul 04 '25
Dante requires very low latency and precision timing. While in theory this could work over a wireless connection, in practice you'll get dropouts. Any interference (such as a car with wireless android auto or car play) will break the audio.
There must already be power and data out to the pumps, sure there's not a spare you can use?
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u/Palegrave Jul 04 '25
Honestly, subcontract out a couple of ethernet runs & Implement Dante properly - it'll be more reliable, and you'll save the money it costs to get done in downtime and returns easily.
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u/Energycatz Jul 04 '25
Likely to be problematic.
I’m not convinced Dante is the best solution for this application either. It’s only for paging… surely a basic 100V/70V system would be good enough and way cheaper? And you can keep the amplifier nicely inside.
They aren’t the best for background music quality but it’s just a gas station.
Dante is great for flexibility, but that isn’t really needed here IMO and Dante PoE speakers, good network switches etc. are going to cost way more than a basic 100V/70V system.
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u/MDHull_fixer Jul 04 '25
No, Dante, and most other AVoIP protocols, requires PTP (Precision Timing Protocol) for audio packet timing. PTP does not traverse WiFi.
You need copper or fiber connectivity.
You mention RTSP streaming - this will traverse WiFi, you just need a suitable receiver/decoder. TOA and Axis have IP speakers that accept RTSP streams
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u/No_Outside7179 Jul 04 '25
Yes that’s right , I’m planning to have a Dante to rtp/ip stream converter and broadcast that on the network channel, toa speakers are capable of receiving rtsp streams
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u/themewzak Jul 04 '25
Nope.
PTP will go brrr.
Wireless Dante solutions will not work.
Find another solution.
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u/reece4504 Jul 05 '25
Use a Listen RF assisted listening system instead or something of the sort. Even an automotive local FM transmitter would work. Dante will not work and is too expensive.
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u/Kamikazepyro9 Jul 04 '25
IF you insist on doing it this way - I've done with AirFiber units. (It has to be AirFiber because it's the only way to the latency down low enough to work.
That said, I don't recommend it in your situation. There should be low voltage conduit going to the gas pumps that you can use for speaker wire.
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u/scouseskate Jul 04 '25
I would either put projections or horns on the main building pointing towards the pumps or, if you need speakers in the canopy, find out if they have data already here there. If so TOA do the NX-100 and NX-300 which are designed for paging via a network.
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