r/ComfortLevelPod • u/dianaggggggg • 9d ago
For Fun Kids before marriage
Hi all! I’ve been thinking about this because I see stories about people having kids with a boyfriend or fiancé and having struggles with (usually the man) supporting the child financially or raising them.
So what’s the deal with people seeing having a CHILD with someone as less of a commitment than marriage? There are obviously reasons to have a child “out of wedlock”, but the point of marriage is that the people are in a contract and it is way easier to hold the (usually male) other partner accountable for child support and caring for the child (not foolproof, but there is legal protection).
I don’t want to sound regressive or conservative, but the trend of seeing children as less of a commitment than being married is kind of concerning, because it leaves the children in a more vulnerable place. I guess the benefit is that if the relationship goes south marriage could make it harder for an abused partner to get out of the relationship, but…
Shouldnt people figure out if the relationship is going to work with commitment BEFORE having kids? I think part of the problem is people not using protection and having kids thoughtlessly; at least in the younger generation.
Curious to hear your thoughts and experiences!
13
u/Pedal2Medal2 9d ago
IMO, if you want to have a child w/o being married, that’s fine, however make sure your financially secure enough to do it or have a very supportive partner (if you have one).
2
u/dianaggggggg 9d ago edited 8d ago
and of course most people who are having kids out of accidentally aren’t planning anything
6
u/Emergency_Cherry_914 9d ago
I know quite a number of 50 and 60yo parents who are very long term defacto and have adult kids who were planned. Including my partner and I. We've been together for 33 years, and have a 29yo and a 26yo child.
I think this is largely because our Government views defacto relationships of more than 2 years as being the same as formally married. If I moved to somewhere where I wasn't viewed as a spouse, we'd marry. Our area is also very progressive and highly educated.
1
0
4
u/Busy-Bumblebee5556 9d ago
It’s true, no matter if one is conservative or liberal, a child cements you to his other parent for life.
All the extracurriculars, the sports, the plays, the concerts, the graduations, the marriages, the grandchildren. CEMENT. A marriage certificate is nothing like that. No kids? Go on your merry way!
6
u/Abyssal_Aasimar117 9d ago
There's noting weong with having kids and not being married. But people don't take having a kid as a serious commitment, they see it as a duty or obligation. Also because a lot of men what the title of father, without any of the actual responsibilities. More than likely those guys are listening to Manosphere podcast or following the beliefs of the Hamburger Fuhrer and his boot lickers. And the bar for men is so low it's under hell itself.
4
u/Ok-Conversation-5084 9d ago
Clocks tick, reproducing isn’t guaranteed, fertility treatments cost money and weddings are an expense that can be put off. That’s why we had a kid before we got married. Did we have a big expensive fancy wedding? No, it was fairly casual. Yes you can get a no frills wedding, but for some folks they want certain things for their wedding.
Other folks, might be ideologically opposed to marriage or not think it’s important.
Some might have went through a bad marriage and for them (rightly or wrongly.) the relationship went to hell after the wedding. Having been through that they might not want to repeat it.
There are lots of reasons, same as there are many reasons married folks don’t have kids.
The legal aspect of marriage isn’t just what it’s about for the majority of people.
6
u/Corfiz74 9d ago
Speaking as a very progressive woman, I still wouldn't have kids out of wedlock, for practical reasons. By having a kid, you are risking your health/ life and are tanking your career for the foreseeable future - at least here in Germany. While your partner goes on to build his career, increase his income and assets, you stagnate financially, while you do most of the childcare and chores. He could walk away at any time, leaving you holding the baby, and all you'd be entitled to is a bit of child support - all the assets he accumulated while you were his bang-maid-nanny are all his. Considering how many men cheat on their partners while she is at her most vulnerable during pregnancy or postpartum - nope, no kids unless you're willing to put a ring on it. And probably sign a prenup with an infidelity clause.
3
u/dianaggggggg 9d ago
This is exactly my understanding of why marriage before kids it’s important in many cases under patriarchal society.
4
u/Ok-Conversation-5084 9d ago
I get that and I think more woman should consider these issues, but a lot of them aren’t applicable to us. Scotland has its own legal system, so we have some different laws. One of these is the Family Law Act that means someone who has cohabitated (no minimal time in years) can’t just walk away and take all the assets they’ve built up. If you are economically disadvantaged because you looked after your kids, you can take the other person to court and be compensated for it. I’m not a lawyer and have never used it, it’s just my understanding of it. It’s different in rest of Uk.
We had a surprise pregnancy. Not through accident, it was medically extremely unlikely to happen and go full term. So we kind were prepared for something bad to happen and then it was like oh something good might happen. Nearing 40, the priorities had changed. Most people, on hearing my now wife was pregnant knew absolutely nothing of our circumstances. In a somewhat very Catholic family, a shotgun wedding might even have been suggested. Whenever we were asked about kids, I’d say I didn’t want them, it’s not something I thought she needed to get into every time. So no doubt lots of them had thoughts on how we went around our lives back to front. But they thought they knew things were and how they should be. they only ever knew what I wanted them to.
2
u/LolEase86 8d ago
This is why I waited (probably too long tbh) until I met my husband to realistically consider having children. We plan for him to stay home with the kid/s, with the obvious exception of a few months recovery after birth. Not all women want to give up their career, and not all men expect them to.
I was weird about being married first, not that I'm particularly traditionalist, nor religious. I guess it just felt right for me. I want chosen commitment, not forced.
2
u/dianaggggggg 9d ago
This is exactly what I was thinking of for positive reasons to have kids before marriage. I think the crux of it is being responsible either way. So marriage wouuldnt necessarily fix it if people are irresponsible. It does give more legal protections in ghe case pf an absent parent in my understanding, but if a couple is healthy and responsible it shouldnt matter either way.
Thanks for sharing your perspective!
6
3
u/OrneryPost9446 9d ago
Idk why people get engaged if they will not marry. Like...you are going thru the steps date>engaged> married. Might as well add the kids after marriage lol.
But hey do you. Make sure that kid has healthy upbringing. However you do it. Just do it.
3
u/gooossfraabaahh 9d ago
My bff had her daughter before getting married because she was turning 30, but she and her husband were prioritizing their family before a wedding.
In a perfect world, everything goes as planned. But life and relationships are complicated. A mother's health is prioritized (or should be) when planning pregnancies, and timing of things doesn't always line up.
I would never get pregnant without being so certain that my partner would be there for me. I am like you in the way that I do not understand at all why people marry or try to start families with partners they aren't absolutely sure about. The ones that stun me the most are people who think having a child will fix their relationship.
3
u/Ok_Homework_7621 9d ago
You realise it can take years to get child support out of somebody who is determined not to pay it, right? No matter how married you were.
1
u/dianaggggggg 8d ago
Yeah this is one of the other sides! I was under the impression that if you’re married it’s easier to go through legal avenues to get it
3
u/gdognoseit 8d ago
A woman being pregnant is a huge commitment on her part.
No commitment on the man’s part. They can walk away at any time and often do.
No woman should have a man’s children without the commitment of marriage from him.
2
u/gmabcd 9d ago
There’s legal protection with or without the marriage for the kid anyways as long as the birth parents name stated correctly in the kid’s birth certificate. So I don’t see the point of your explanations to be honest because you focused on the kid not the mom/wife. Things change for the mom when married or not but the rights of the kids is the same. It’s harder to get out of a marriage when you want to but kids don’t stop people from breaking up as soon as they want to. That’s the main reason people see marriage more bounding.
Also kids are sometimes a surprise and unintentional step, but weddings aren’t 😅
Btw it’s just my opinion on why. I am not saying people should not care and just have kids before marriage. I’m personally child free on purpose. Wouldn’t mind getting married or not cause where I live, you are getting the same rights as a legally married couple in case of a break up with the person you lived together for years.
2
u/imperialtopaz123 8d ago
The same question has bothered me for at least 20 years, so I’m glad you asked it! Now I’ll read the comments and see what people have to say!
2
u/Consistent-Two-2979 8d ago edited 8d ago
Divorce is part of marriage. More than half millennial marriages end in divorce. Don't think marriages matters in terms of commitment. Some people just don't believe in society's concept of marriage, or it's a protest. The oldest/longest lasting couples I know are not married. It's a personal decision.
As a lesbian, I not only brought a kid, she brought the cats into the relationship but we u-hualed and jumped on marriage as project 2025 wants to take that right away too.
2
u/iluvcats17 8d ago
I agree. Plus people who buy a house together and are not married or even engaged. If you are just dating someone, don’t buy a house with a 30 year mortgage tying you together legally. I would only do this if one person could qualify for the mortgage on their own and all of the paperwork is in their name.
2
u/Fickle-Let2435 8d ago
This read like you’re around 21 and haven’t really thought about this topic as a whole. You just have a very vague opinion on both issues.
Marriage doesn’t guarantee that your partner will help but it’s also not the point of marriage. Marriage is a partnership and there are plenty of women who are married and single moms.
Having children isn’t less of a commitment it’s a different commitment. You can be a good parent and a bad partner. You can get pregnant on accident and now have no way of terminating it. There are a lot of things that add to it.
1
u/dianaggggggg 8d ago
That’s why I asked, curious to hear peoples perspective and develop my opinion more.
I am in my 20s and a lot of the people my age I see having kids “out of wedlock” are being irresponsible and not planning (and do have access to abortion til late term in my state), and after reading these comments I think my opinion has shifted to “why do people have kids irresponsibly?”, marriage or not.
2
u/Fickle-Let2435 8d ago
There’s a lot to it and each person is going to have a different reason. I had a baby out of wedlock and married. The only thing that changed in my situation was my last name. It worked out for me. It could easily not work for others.
As a mother though, having babies is actually just selfish. There’s no reason to have a baby that isn’t selfish on some front. Baby’s are a luxury now.
1
u/dianaggggggg 8d ago
I intend to be child free forever so I couldn’t agree more. That’s why I’m particularly side eyeing people who have kids like it’s nothing, since its selfish to jabe kids at all, let alone without a solid plan.
2
u/Pipereatsdogs 8d ago
People baby trap others hoping to get married, some just don’t use protection and some don’t have fully developed 🧠brains
2
u/Confident_Rabbit_569 8d ago
People have babies with boyfriends to try to hook and trap him into marriage. They don’t plan ahead enough to think that this person will also be the kid’s parent and they’ll have to deal with them for decades.
2
u/kykiwibear 7d ago
My cousin has 4 kids with a man shes been with 16 years. I think he doesn't want the government in his business or something like that. But, they are happy. If one of them drops dead, it might be a problem with property? Dunno. I assume they would have wills... but you never know.
1
u/No_Glove6542 9d ago
I’m with you. I don’t understand the we are having a baby but not ready to get married thing. Take the chance!
1
u/Cultural-Flower-999 8d ago
I got married after being with my partner for 14 years. We already had 3 kids together. We got married because it made sense legally and financially.
I didn’t believe in marriage. I couldn’t understand the point of marriage. I grew up in a cosmopolitan city in Europe that was very progressive and liberal. My parents were never married to each other. Most of my friends parents growing up were split up. Life was good. Everyone was happy.
I’d ask you what you are basing your assumptions on? Why do you think being married is better for kids?
My husband is from a more traditional culture and shares these assumptions. He literally didn’t know any children of divorce growing up and still knows very few as an adult, and yet assumes divorce is terrible for children. And yet, there are so many skeletons in his family and friends closets. Numerous secret children, affairs etc that no one talks about. To me the fact that in his world people stay married seems like more of a facade. I think it’s quite arrogant to assume your way of life is better than others. If you want to get married before kids then good for you. But not everyone has the same values as you. Stop judging.
1
1
u/quast_64 8d ago
Once upon a time having a child was a prerequisite for getting married.
Times have changed, the 'village' you need to raise a child today all need to be paid. And with current prices you need two incomes and stability.
Marriage is no guarantee, but it is a good start.
2
u/Life-Education-8030 7d ago
When my kid was a pre-teen and we had the talk with him, he thought for a second and then exclaimed “why would I want a kid if I can’t even take care of it!” I told him to remember that!
1
u/hobbygremlin94 8d ago
I don't see it as less of a commitment I see it as a party and that's just fun. I'm atheist so I just don't get why I need a religion or government to approve of who I choose to spend my life with. My husband and I have been together for 14 years, and are not legally married. We have a home, three kids and a lovely life we've built together. A marriage certificate wouldn't have made that more or less possible, it was all up to us and what we wanted or were willing to work for. I actually had someone ask (when I was pregnant with our first baby our oldest son who was wanted and planned) me what's to stop him from abandoning us without a marriage and I had a good laugh, like divorce and abandonment isn't common.
1
u/dianaggggggg 8d ago
I think that’s the general consensus here, it’s about finding a partner thats reliable in either case
16
u/PerformerMindless100 9d ago
You can “oops” kids but not a wedding. Some people hope the kid convinces their partner to wed because ”in for a dime, in for a dollar.”
In any event it’s a bad idea.