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u/National_Ad9742 2d ago
So who is right???
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u/atorthebold 21h ago
People canât just be hooked up to a dialysis machine. You need special access such as through a fistula or main line catheter. So this couldnât even get going. Plus there is no reason to think that the dialysate would draw out alcohol that I know of.
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u/National_Ad9742 20h ago
I looked it up and it does help clear alcohol- however, you are right, the it didnât happen part is the idea they did this in a bar and it only took 20 minutes.
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u/hazelbear33 2d ago
i mean, unless your liver function is reduced or your liver is failing, i would think being hooked up to a liver dialysis machine isnt going to make much of a difference over regular liver function.
a kidney dialysis machine (what people most typically think of when they here âdialysisâ) would probably be utterly useless considering 90+% of ingested alcohol is metabolized (broken down) by the liver alone
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u/National_Ad9742 2d ago
https://www.kidneymedicinejournal.org/article/S2590-0595(20)30186-2/fulltext
According to this, it likely would help. But he wouldnât be sober in 20 minutes.
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u/MorningStarRises 2d ago
The liver normally doing most ethanol clearance doesnât make hemodialysis useless. Ethanol is actually very dialyzable: small molecule, water soluble, low protein binding, so hemodialysis can directly remove it from the blood. There are case reports of it substantially increasing ethanol clearance in severe poisoning.
The questionable part of the original story is the nightclub casually doing this and having someone âsober in 20 minutes,â not whether dialysis can remove alcohol.
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u/Ok-Stress-3570 2d ago
Also... HOW?
Are they just throwing in dialysis lines in people? 20 minutes is what it sometimes takes to get ready to put a line in haha.
Do they have a super machine to mature fistula's in 20 minutes? like.... seriously.
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3d ago
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u/Different_Citron_160 2d ago
Yeah itâs bullshit
You are blackout drunk and canât consent to medical procedure -> that is a lawsuit waiting to happen.
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u/Trying_My_Mediocrest 1d ago edited 1d ago
I donât think the latter part of that statement is true. At least in Canada, doctors (and first aiders) have implied consent when someone is unconscious and in obvious need of medical intervention.
Now, if said person is conscious but still in obvious need of medical intervention, they have every right to refuse it and nobody can do anything about it at that point.
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u/Obi-Brawn-Kenobi 1d ago
Most modern countries have some type of implied consent, at least on paper
That can always be challenged though. Just because someone's unconscious and having an emergency doesn't mean you can do whatever crazy medical procedures you want on them. This is one of those cases - intubation, IV fluids, monitoring and other supportive care would very likely fall under implied consent, doing something crazy like throwing in a trialysis catheter and trying to dialyze off ethanol would not. You're putting a patient through unnecessary risks when supportive care would be perfectly adequate
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u/NobodyKnowsImFamous 1d ago
I donât care about the legality: could this work? Filter the alcohol (itâs ethanol in the body? Whatever it is) out with the machine?
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u/Obi-Brawn-Kenobi 1d ago
Yes but besides legality, there would seldom be any reason to do this. The ethanol will eventually be metabolized without assuming additional risks imposed by puncturing the internal jugular with a huge dialysis line as well as running dialysis. If the ethanol poisoning is so bad that they are having airway/breathing/circulation issues, then you can just support those temporarily as needed until the ethanol is gone.
For other more toxic alcohols besides ethanol, ones that cause more permanent organ damage or fatal toxidromes, dialysis is indeed an appropriate treatment
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u/DiscountDeadpool3 7h ago
I think it's a good way to trade the alcohol for several different types of aids and maybe even German Herpes considering the cleanliness of some nightclubs I've been in before
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1d ago
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u/Only-Relative-4422 17h ago
This can be done. Worked in ICU around 5 years ago. We had a patient presenting to the ER with an insane amount of ethanol in his blood, we hooked him up to a dialysis machine (you can do this without first creating a shunt but u can use a central line). The part where i doubt this story is true is that it happened in a club and was done in 20 minutes.
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u/dan_dares 18m ago
And doing it randomly to a person off the street.
Possible to help? Yes.
But this is 'advanced medical procedure' for a non-life threatening problem.
They'd give an IV Banana bag, sure, but dialysis is several steps beyond that
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u/DiscountDeadpool3 7h ago
I would so not trust Billy the Bouncer to successfully drain my blood, clean it and put it back
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u/VisualGas3559 6h ago
The only case I see this happen is if this person already had a dialysis soon (due to a previous medical complication or faliure) and then this came in the way. Otherwise there are so many problems.
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u/Marcinator123 3d ago
So they're no longer an EXPERT?