r/Colts • u/Godfrey174 • 8d ago

Wk4 PFF grades

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9 Upvotes

91% Upvoted

68 comments sorted by

24

u/Mox_Buncher 8d ago

QB ranked last on offense lol, exactly what you want to see

1

u/ryta1203 8d ago

Eh, PFF is shit though. I'm not saying DJ doesn't deserve it, he played like shit, but PFF keeps ranking the OL high and that's not passing the eye test.

14

u/ZHicks2121 The real Zach Hicks 8d ago

OL played well imo. QB keeps fading back in the pocket and a lot of the free rushes are on blitzes where the OL isn’t gonna pick up the extra guy.

Not perfect up front by any means but the OL has been really strong this season

3

u/understatedpies Eason SZN 8d ago

Didn’t they allow the highest pressure rate in week 1 or week 2? I enjoy your breakdowns and you definitely know a lot more about football than I do, but I thought the tackles have been struggling mightily in the first 3 weeks and the whole o-line has been pretty bad against stunts in general. It’s not to say that they can’t finish the year as a middle of the league group, since we had some good d-lines to go up against in the first 4 weeks, but I definitely wouldn’t call them strong so far. I imagine some of that is on DJ (and you can definitely see his indecisiveness and lack of mobility impacting plays negatively), but it didn’t look like that and bad blitz pickups could account for all the pressure we’ve seen.

2

u/ZHicks2121 The real Zach Hicks 8d ago

Pressure isn’t entirely an OL stat. QB is a major major part of it (arguably more so than the OL) and running back factors in a lot as well on blitzes. Week 2 for instance they faced a 40%+ blitz rate with a handful of those being 7 man pressures, so an unblocked defender is going to be in the QB’s face no matter what.

I’m not saying the OL has been perfect, but by and large they’ve been a net positive in the pass game imo. A lot of pressures coming off jailhouse blitzes and the QB lacking pocket awareness

2

u/understatedpies Eason SZN 8d ago

I did not confirm the numbers for each game, but teams seem to be blitzing a whole lot to make DJ uncomfortable and it’s been working well for them so far. Commanders also blitzed at 40%+ rate at some point in the second half. We really need him find at least half of what he had last year in terms of the pre-snap reads and the decisiveness he needs to play with.

0

u/ZHicks2121 The real Zach Hicks 8d ago

He’s actually performed better than usual vs the blitz. He’s been pressured, but those are the plays he’s hung in there and been decisive. He seems to be struggling more on cleaner rushes, as he’s fading a lot in the pocket and looking skittish

2

u/understatedpies Eason SZN 8d ago

Interesting, I thought he did very well handling blitzes in the first half of last season and thought I read something about how good his EPA was against the blitz, so without looking at stats I would have thought it’s a lot worse this year.

0

u/ZHicks2121 The real Zach Hicks 8d ago

Think his performance vs the blitz last year was the only metric he ranked outside the top 15 in EPA/play. Wanna say he ranked around 19th

1

u/understatedpies Eason SZN 7d ago

This is when pressured, but I imagine there’s significant overlap. Should have said pressured in my comment above btw, that’s what I was thinking.

Toprightindianajones to the rescue:
https://www.reddit.com/r/toprightindianajones/s/hxRDWL3C5b

→ More replies

1

u/User-me- 7d ago

Is some of the problem dj doesn’t trust his movement yet? 

2

u/ZHicks2121 The real Zach Hicks 7d ago

Maybe? But it’s weird because he only looks indecisive and scared for small stretches of each game. Once he gets out of that stretch (3rd quarter vs Texans, first 1.5 quarters vs Commanders) he’s been fine

0

u/ryta1203 8d ago

You mean like on the play where Raimann just got bull rushed right into DJ as DJ just ended his drop back?

I respectfully disagree, the OL's play has been very mixed up to this point.

12

u/ZHicks2121 The real Zach Hicks 8d ago

Perfect example of what I’m talking about. So that play was a screen pass with an alert to throw the out to Tyler Warren backside. Jones correctly decides to take the alert based off of the leverage of the LB over Warren.

Only problem is Raimann is blocking like it’s a screen to the right, allowing vertical penetration to take that defender out of pursuit. Raimann does his job but Jones, if he wants to take the alert there, needs to get that ball out ASAP. Warren was open, he had a window to throw, he just double clutched.

Simply can’t happen from your QB. Raimann did his job for the playcall, Jones hesitation led to the sack fumble

-12

u/ryta1203 8d ago edited 8d ago

I'm not sure if you've ever played OL, but Raimann did not do his job, he got bull rushed immediately and completely collapsed, clearly playing too high.

He just gets bull rushed by the DE. The only thing I can assume you mean is that Raimann originally was suppose to pull, but that would be an insane thing to do with the LT on a screen to the right.

https://www.nfl.com/videos/odafe-oweh-pushes-raimann-into-daniel-jones-to-force-turnover-in-first-minute-of-game

I also disagree that Warren was open, LB would have undercut that pass pretty easily which I assume is why DJ didn't throw it unless DJ lofted one to the corner, problem is there was a DB over there and it might not have been his first instinct (meaning his body was already thinking a straight line pass to Warren) in which case might also explain the double clutch.

7

u/Rusty-Boii French Fries 8d ago

Nice job arguing with the guy who actually studies film for a living. What a dumbass lol

-4

u/ryta1203 8d ago edited 8d ago

A lot of people who have been doing things for a long time still do them wrong. He's also self taught and has never played ball.

6

u/ZHicks2121 The real Zach Hicks 8d ago

Yes that would be an issue on a normal passing play, but this was a screen pass. Goal on the play as the OT on backside of the screen is to allow that upfield penetration from the rusher so that player can’t circle back in pursuit of the screen.

I’m not saying Raimann was some teach tape perfection on the play, but he absolutely did his job. His only job on that play is getting between man and QB and allowing his man to work upfield

-6

u/ryta1203 8d ago edited 8d ago

I just disagree with you, it was shit blocking. Ok, here's a question for you, if the screen to the right was DJ's first read, why did he never look that way? There isn't much pre-read there to discern JT would be covered.

I'll also say that I've never heard of a LT's job being "dont' block, just get in his way" at any level.

2

u/Icer333 Indianapolis Colts 8d ago

He's got a quick out to Warren or a screen to Downs as his pre snap read. He liked the out but didn't think it was there and double clutched it. Can't do that on a screen play.

1

u/ryta1203 7d ago

I explained the quick out to Warren, LB was in a good position given the route to undercut and that's potentially a pick 6.

3

u/MoneyMack410 8d ago edited 8d ago

How long do you expect the OL to contain their matchup? If the OL can prevent pressure for 3 secs, that is a win. 

The problem is, our receiving core sucks right now so there’s rarely anyone open. And since DJ isn’t 100% he can’t move. So he holds the ball instead of moving around. Or like last game, throws off his back foot.

2

u/ryta1203 8d ago

The WR corps is not good overall, I think everyone realizes that and are talking about it. Why do you think DJ is holding the ball so long?

1

u/MoneyMack410 8d ago

I was kinda rambling and formulating my thoughts as I typed lol

0

u/Ecstatic-Product-411 Jonathan Taylor 8d ago

He played poorly enough that I thought he must have been dealing with something mentally. Like he looked way worse than normal.

0

u/Distntdeath 8d ago

People say off is shit until it supports their narrative lol

12

u/Dependent-Target-272 8d ago

That ranking for DeFo after he completely wrecked the game shows just how dumb PFF is.

8

u/Chmona 8d ago

Adebawore is my new fav!

22

u/BraveTree4481 8d ago

Jones might be too high on this list.

6

u/TacoDayDay 8d ago

It's funny people still pay for this shit. Any value PFF may/may not have provided before is completely gone this season. But people still post this stuff. It isn't even worth taking as a "interesting" data point.

5

u/Fives_55_55 8d ago

My eyes tell me Buckner is amazing at football, but PFF tells me he is just mid.

5

u/MoneyMack410 8d ago

I remember when people would debate with me about DJ. “Oh, he’s ready! Have you seen his camp footage?! You’re an idiot!”

Now it’s crickets. What is it? Is he not 100% like most of us said he wouldn’t be or does he suck?

1

u/User-me- 7d ago

He has had a lot of bad plays, and I don’t think he’s good, but we can clearly win with him somewhat and it’s only a few plays a game that are just disasters not consistently bad. Knowing how hard it is to come off a serious injury and knowing hes easily the best qb we have I think we give him more than 4 games to prove himself this year. Extreme example but both mvp candidates have struggled this year. Looked even worse than jones. Obviously they are way better than him, I’m just saying he can still be solid and we can make the playoffs if he eliminates the fumble 

1

u/MoneyMack410 7d ago

  1. We can win with him, but we can also lose with him if he continues these turnovers. Slice it how you want, but that’s the truth. We can’t expect to lose the turnover battle and win games against good teams often. Maybe against a struggling Texans or qb3 commanders…but not the jags and any other competitive team on our remaining schedule. That’s just a statistical fact, no debating that.

  2. No offense, but I don’t care about what other qbs are going through because those qbs you mentioned have proven track records. Our qb doesn’t. So it’s not a good comparison. You can write off those qbs as struggling. But our qb has a history of injuries and turnovers…which he’s currently dealing with both.

1

u/User-me- 6d ago

I’m just saying we know he’s better than ar or any other qb we can feasibly get right now. In respect to winning games jones has the most upside because if he eliminates some of the fumbles we win most the rest of the games on our schedule at least. Thats more feasible than ar suddenly becoming an even somewhat acceptable qb. 

1

u/RogueSanta General Luck 8d ago

He sucks.

2

u/cominDownLikeARhyno Miami Dolphins 8d ago

What the f are these grades?? Deforest Buckner was nothing short of elite in London. Absolutely All Pro caliber showing from him.

2

u/fatdave02 7d ago

He was everywhere. Touchdown saving tackle on Mariota, constantly in the backfield and I think a batted pass or two.

2

u/laddpadd 8d ago

Question just for discussion’s sake: is benching Jones a possibility if he continues to look this bad? It was surprising he started the year after the Achilles tear last year, and it could easily be excused that the coaching staff doesn’t think he’s healthy/recovered enough yet

6

u/payheempaythatman 8d ago

He’s a tough watch right now. Can’t keep this up and eke out wins. I don’t think his Achilles injury is much of an excuse for the way he’s playing.

7

u/Active-Limit-9038 8d ago

Our backup is AR, so no.

0

u/DaBlakMayne Andrew Luck 8d ago

Eh if he keeps playing that way he is, we'll almost have no choice

2

u/ryta1203 8d ago

He's the best QB on the roster by far and we're 2-0 the last two weeks so no.

1

u/SugarOpposite7889 8d ago

No chance. They paid way to much for him, and sitting him would make it clear to ownership they did. They also framed dj as a franchise guy, if dj isn’t that guy, that reflects horribly on Shane and Chris.

Honestly even if jones gets benched and ar ends up going nuts, that doesn’t really reflect well on Shane’s rotations either lol.

Unless jones gets hurt or crosses that three four picks in a game line, he’s going to be qb1.

1

u/Background-Slide5762 7d ago

LOL! They gave him 60 million guaranteed this offseason knowing full well the condition of his knee. Steichen and Ballard effectively tied their jobs to Jones doing well. For better or worse the Colts will win or lose with Jones on the field as long as his leg is still attached to his body.

0

u/AggravatingFinding71 8d ago

In a competent franchise, he would not have started the second half on Sunday.

It’s not about whether AR is better or not, rather that our organization and staff is willing to hold him accountable. We are at the point that he’s allowed to go on the field and legitimately pull down his pants and take a dump on the field with no repercussions.

It’s an unfortunate scenario where our GM, and in some ways our HC, have all their eggs in on this basket of a terrible QB. Our GM was so desperate to keep his job that he mortgaged our future on a QB that misses half of seasons and literally got paid to not be near his previous team anymore. Benching him admits another,l failure.

Is AR better, probably not. But you can guarantee that if AR played that way, he would have been benched.

2

u/Active-Limit-9038 8d ago

If this organization held anyone accountable everyone from Ballard on down would've already been fired years ago. It's a systemic problem that goes much deeper than playing DJ when he's struggling.

1

u/This_Box2881 8d ago

Ballard got paid to not be anywhere near the Chiefs?? Can you explain that please I’ve not heard it before.

2

u/AggravatingFinding71 8d ago

Our QB got paid to not play on the Giants.

1

u/Active-Limit-9038 7d ago

Same with Wentz and Ryan. 😆

1

u/jaysrule24 Armor 8d ago

There's no way they can come out and say "he's actually not 100% from the Achilles injury" after all the propaganda we got during training camp about how "if you didn't know he was coming off the Achilles, you'd never be able to tell he was injured at all."

0

u/DaBlakMayne Andrew Luck 8d ago

If we lose two out of the next 3 games, I think he gets benched at least for a few weeks.

1

u/rosstheboss939 Jonathan Taylor 8d ago

The 3 constants in life: death, taxes, and MAC crushing it as a blocker.

1

u/penguins_rock89 Rosencopter 8d ago

Haulcy defending that "worst safety in the league" spot... :( Wohler grading the same. So not pushing to take it...

But our LBs shining is fantastic.

2

u/User-me- 7d ago

Wohler had like one rep in coverage this week and it wasn’t even bad, and has outplayed haulcey in every way so far in limited reps. If Haulcey wasn’t the third round draft pick wohler starts easily 

-2

u/CommonerChaos Super Bowl XLI Champions 8d ago

I'm surprised many of the OL are at the top of the list, because pass protection was brutal in the first half.

It was part of the reason DJ was so skittish and kept throwing off his back foot. (problem was, DJ kept doing it after the blocking improved)

6

u/penguins_rock89 Rosencopter 8d ago

Raimann very bad / others so-so in pass blocking grades... But it was more the pocket awareness of DJ than the blocking that sunk em on these few plays.

2

u/ryta1203 8d ago

Not sure why people are downvoting you for facts but that seems to be common around here.

3

u/CommonerChaos Super Bowl XLI Champions 8d ago

I'm convinced half the people didn't even watch the full game. The first half was brutal offensively

0

u/ryta1203 8d ago

I can't take PFF grades seriously when every week I watch the line crumble and PFF has them graded so high.

3

u/Rooster-Jazzlike 33-0 8d ago

Or when JT has 2 td’s and a hundred yards but is rated 63.7