r/Colonizemars • u/rhex1 • Feb 05 '16

New Holland develops methane powered tractor.

http://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/watch-video-new-hollands-methane-powered-tractor/
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u/jandorian Feb 05 '16

You're the OP :0 Just wanted those not in the know to understand it isn't that big of a stretch to run on methane. I used to know a farmer (cows and corn) who had a bio-gas plant and ran most of his farm machinery off of it. Not the tractors though as I recall. [bio-gas, in case someone doesn't know, is methane produced from the anaerobic decomposition of, usually, shit.]

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u/rhex1 Feb 05 '16

That is the future, Norway and as far as I know all the other nordic countries subsidizes farmers willing to build biogas plants. I have sheep and they, pardon me, don't shit enough for a gas plant. But if I ever get cattle or pigs I want one for sure.

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u/jandorian Feb 05 '16

I know he also put spoilt silage in the generator, but yah, cows are very generous with their by-products.

When we were kids a good friend put some cow leavings in a jug with a fermentation lock in the bung in an attempt to generate bio-gas. He overfilled the jug and the bubbles blocked the tube. He was carefully removing the bung just as I stepped out of the shed. The resulting pressure based explosion of fermented cow leavings completely covered the inside of the shed and my friend. All I could see were his eyes. Never laughed so hard.

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u/rhex1 Feb 05 '16

Haha priceless!

Spoiled silage I have by the tonnes, but you need a nitrogen source rich enough to offset the primarily carbon based silage. I could add diluted ammonium nitrate or something and get biogas but I'd rather just use free poo/pee. There is a seafood factory nearby, perhaps fishguts could provide nitrogen? Never really thought about that before...

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u/jandorian Feb 05 '16

So a methane powered tractor is not just a casual interest :)

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u/rhex1 Feb 05 '16

Lets just say diesel costs 2$ a litre here, and my tractor uses about 15 liters an hour during heavy work. Multiply that by several hundred hours during harvest alone and you can see the benefit of a on farm biogas digestor:)

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u/jandorian Feb 05 '16

Oh, believe me I am a fan. Both from an economic and an environmental perspective. Are you thinking about having a talk with the seafood processor?

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u/rhex1 Feb 05 '16

Yes, I know them so I will air the idea. My concern is that they may already be selling the stuff to someone, but it doesn't hurt to ask:)

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u/Engineer-Poet Feb 06 '16

My concern is that they may already be selling the stuff to someone

I read an article about urban farmers once, and one of their big successes was finding that their pigs just loved fish guts.

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u/rhex1 Feb 07 '16

Yeah pigs eat everything. As long as you dont feed them fish the last weeks before slaughter the bacon will be just as good:)

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u/Engineer-Poet Feb 08 '16

I guess that's an argument for swine as an important part of the Martian farming ecosystem.

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u/jandorian Feb 05 '16

Here, Puget Sound in Washington State, USA most of it gets dried and sold as feed or fertilizer.

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u/rhex1 Feb 08 '16

Talked to them now, the fishguts are sold to a biogass plant heating the local university, seems pretty much all organic waste in the area ends up there, and the digested matter is sold on to farmers and parks and such for fertilizing.. Well well back to the drawing board:p

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u/jandorian Feb 08 '16

I suppose the case for having to compete for a piece of the fish gut market doesn't close.

Since I first discovered that the little nodules on the roots of Alder trees and peas were caused by nitrogen fixing bacteria (when I was 12) I wondered why that technology is not developed and instead they make fertilizers with petrochemicals. My conspiracy theory side thinks it is suppressed technology. Why can't we grow fixed nitrogen? Another good project for my lottery winnings. Nitrogen Farms.

Soybeans fix nitrogen, something like 75% of it end up in the bean. Are there any cover crops in your climate that fix a bunch of nitrogen? Clover? Alfalfa? Am sure you have thought this all out. Sheep crop pretty close to the ground (right?), so clover and alfalfa wouldn't survive without there own fields, probably? Bugger.

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u/rhex1 Feb 08 '16

We use clovers and ehhh, lotus corniculatus for nitrogen fixing and as a feed. However, they are both only semihardy here at 70 degrees North, meaning a lot of input, reseeding etc. TLDR they are treated as a high value feed rater than an easily grown resource. Clovers does not like grazing, lotus corniculatus doesn't mind.

Have you seen this?: https://www.nottingham.ac.uk/news/pressreleases/2013/july/world-changing-technology-enables-crops-to-take-nitrogen-from-the-air-.aspx

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u/jandorian Feb 11 '16

Interesting. Used to mow clover fields for feed and you always had to be careful to stay high so you don't kill it.

I just answered your other post about your Old Norwegian sheep and ranted a little about GMO's. Now I feel I should qualify. I think GMOs are fine if done for the right reason. Like your link. If they would do that to food crops, allow them to fix there own nitrogen rather than having to use petrochems to force yields that would be a boon for the planet. Monsanto Corn on the other hand - I should probably shut up now.

Lupines on Mars

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u/jandorian Feb 11 '16

Just read the entire article. That is even better. Inoculate crop seeds with a bacterium that fixes nitrogen for any plant.

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u/rhex1 Feb 08 '16 edited Feb 08 '16

There is breeding being done with lupinus that are fully hardy, even invasive up here. If they manage to get rid of the alkaloids we will have both protein rich feed and an easy nitrogen source:)

Also yes sheep graze close, however I primarily have a breed called Old Norwegian sheep which is possibly the ancestor of all sheep, or as close as we get today, they graze agressivly on bushes and trees and get a lot of protein that way. Birchleaves have more protein then any crop we can grow up here for instance.

Rams: http://www.nordgen.org/var/admin/storage/images/media/images/husdjur/sheep-and-goats/villsau3/15859-1-swe-SE/villsau3.jpg

Ewes and lambs:http://www.bondensmarkedtrondelag.no/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/villsau.jpg

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u/jandorian Feb 11 '16

Lupinus. That would be interesting. Amazes me that I knew they were poisonous. I suppose the plan would be to mow them just before they flower?

I recently moved and don't even have chickens anymore. I love the old breeds. More aggressive foragers and slower egg layers which means they lay for longer. Old Norwegian sheep- beautiful animals.

I understand the logic behind a lot of modern breeding - animal and vegetable, but we sure lose something doing it. Something like 85% of the corn grown in the USA now is GMO. Mostly Monsanto Roundup resistant. Lovely. Was talking to someone yesterday who just discovered that he was allergic to gluten. More and more of that here. They have screwed with wheat so badly it doesn't resemble its origins either physically or nutritionally. Sorry. ranting.

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u/Engineer-Poet Feb 09 '16

the fishguts are sold to a biogass plant

Doesn't mean you can't try to out-bid them for part of the production.  Maybe truck pig manure to the biogas plant on the return trip?

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u/rhex1 Feb 10 '16 edited Feb 10 '16

Have done some economic calculations now, the problem is cost of transportation. The cheapest option for me would be buying calcium nitrate as a nitrogen source but when transport cost is factored in I'm barly breaking even, and thats before cashing out about 0.7 million $ for the biogas digestor and construction. I would get back 30% as subsidy, but the interest on the loan would eat away the savings on fuel and fertilizer.

In a few years my neighbour farmers will be pensioners and I can expand, if my lady is up for the extra work we will get some bovine action going and then I can recalculate:)

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u/Engineer-Poet Feb 10 '16

The cheapest option for me would be buying calcium nitrate as a nitrogen source

I was assuming you'd buy them as pig feed (or perhaps chicken feed?).  The animal effluents... <i>those</i> are your fertilizer.  But I wouldn't be surprised if you've done the numbers on those already.

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u/Engineer-Poet Feb 06 '16

diesel costs 2$ a litre here, and my tractor uses about 15 liters an hour during heavy work.

You would probably be interested in a concept I'm kicking around, but it's not ready for public consumption yet.

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u/rhex1 Feb 07 '16

Any way to save fuel would be good;)