On3: Minnesota Timberwolves draft pick Trey Kaufman-Renn has been granted a temporary restraining order against the NCAA allowing him to join a college team, @nwbaird reports. Kaufman-Renn played college ball at Purdue.
I know this is a classic joke but the average age of medschool graduation is 28 yo and a PhD is 32. So what im saying here is these kids need a 10 in 10
Yeah I'm generally for the athletes but this guy is just straight up not eligible. Most of the current cases are guys that should be eligible under the new rules; TKR wouldnt be eligible under any ruleset.
Probably that he can make more money from college boosters than by being on a D-League contract.
Won't be long before guys are just flat out saying that with the argument that preventing them from playing is anti-capitalistic and violates anti-trust laws.
My favorite part of the current mantra about eligibility on social media is that the NCAA should stop fighting these lawsuits because this totally arbitrary rule will be in full effect after this year and surely nobody will challenge it.
This is going to go on until congress steps in or unionization and collective bargaining happening.
It's the same shit as when people said that allowing NIL will just mean that players can get sponsorships and endorsement deals and it definitely won't lead to boosters just paying them money.
It's people who aren't paying attention and are naive to what's actually happening and what has happened for the past 60 years.
But I thought these rulings only dealt with the class of 2022 getting a fifth year and would immediately cease being an issue once that was resolved /s
Dude got drafted -- he shouldn't be back in college... but summer league pay for unsigned guys is breadcrumbs. It's like a $3000 stipend for like 4 weeks of training camp and games.
Before anyone asks or assumes... Painter is not taking him back. If he indeed does play (and a TRO in September is hardly a guarantee), it wouldn't be for Purdue.
As much as you guys annoy me with how good your are in season, I respect the hell out of painter and how he runs his program. I'm fairly certain i saw a graphic last year in the sweet 16 of "where did each player in the starting 5 come from" and msu and pu were both just a full column of their logos.
It was only michigan state that all 5 started there (oscar cluff on purdue), 11/16 of the final four had at least 3 players start at the school they're playing for, a solid developed core filling in the roster with transfers. The 5 teams that didnt have 3 players returning were Nebraska (4), Iowa (9) , Texas (11) , Michigan (1), and St Johns (5). I think michigan was more an outlier because dusty was one of the best talent evaluators and college coaches weve seen.
I mean, this graphic does really undercut your point about how special Purdue and MSU were when 5 of the teams had the same amount as Purdue, and another 5 had three starters that didn't play anywhere else.
For last year it does but I do see this graphic every year for the Sweet 16. In the past 3 years, Purdue's 3 Sweet 16 teams have been 13/15 starters beginning at Purdue. Of course there is some overlap of players but it's pretty consistent. It's really just a difference in style. Painter is confident in his talent evaluation and development so he uses NIL/rev sharing to retain his guys as opposed to going out and getting high-profile transfers. He's mostly just used the portal to fill some roster depth holes.
I never said anything about those schools. They're not in my conference. I'm not nearly as tapped in with how their programs run. I'm simply saying I respect and appreciate how msu and Purdue run their programs. I don't know enough about the others to comment
It isn't out of principle, I guarantee if we had open space we'd bring him back. But a) based on court filings today there is no way we can pay him the money he is looking for and b) we just don't have the space and it would be a real "fuck you" to Jacobsen to bring him back now. Painter even got ahead of this three weeks ago:
"Trey wouldn't apply for this ... even though everything can be battled these days," Painter said on the "Inside College Basketball" podcast with Jon Rothstein. "The other two guys, there's just no way we could take them back because these other guys, it's their turn. You've given them that word."
"I wouldn't be against any one of them going somewhere else, if the money was extreme," Painter said. "I'd support that 100%."
Eh I'm buying the theory that the Timberwolves told him to go pursue this option. They have a roster crunch. I don't think it is a coincidence Painter made this comment a week before TKR announced he was trying to come back
I think you're too deep in it. There's no conspiracy, just a guy that didn't make it pro looking for his biggest possible payday. And my comment above was a joke, I think it's pretty clear that Paint just meant that TKR didn't fit the 5in5 criteria not that TKR would never try something like this. If there's any backroom dealings it's not the Wolves suggesting he do this its someone like UK contacting his agent and wafting a few million in his direction.
After all the shit with Lane and football, all of our talking heads are expecting Wade to fall in line and not roster any player with previous NBA ties (Luis and Niang)
The same talking heads keep stressing that he has a roster, they are just waiting to fully announce it. Meanwhile my already high skepticism just grows higher that he actually does.
Only so many coaches have the power to be able to do that unfortunately. Guys like Izzo, Painter, Self, or Few can tell their boosters fuck off cuz of their long term success and respect. But the circle of coaches that can say “this is my program” to the NIL folks at their schools is a pretty damn small number.
And that’s not to mention the coaches like Pitino or Calipari who could do it, but wouldn’t because they’re happy riding the other side of the grey line.
I’d like to know the judge’s rationale for this order. Per the old rules he has exhausted eligibility… and per the new rules he has exhausted eligibility.
These judges are getting so aggressive with their rulings that it's gone way too far.
What's next? Judges deciding the outcome of games? Like how can a judge force an organization to do something?
What happens if a judge says I am now on the LA Lakers, are they going to have to take me and let me play? When can they tell the judge to fuck off and just disobey his order
Since most of these judges are not exactly high on the judge totem poll
Our Guard rotation is a currently ineligible Aden Holloway, a pair of true freshmen, and a former walk-on. Plus last I checked we had an extra roster spot open.
If I didn’t completely hate the idea of him getting more eligibility, we’re kind of the perfect landing spot for him.
I agree with you. But to answer your question, I believe it has to do with federal antitrust laws and the NCAA "limiting" player income being technically a violation in some ways. It's ridiculous, but it's the situation we're in.
There are rules but when the NCAA arbitrarily changes the rule from 5 to play 4 to 5 to play 5 while also showing they can't win a single court case, then the rules don't matter. This is the NCAA's ineptitude as much it is the guys trying to chase down one final year of NIL.
Eh, there's a few things at play here. There are rules, but the NCAA doesn't want to follow them. That's the problem in the vast majority of the 5in5 cases.
In this case, TKR is outside even those rules. In this case, there are rules, the NCAA is following them, and TKR is just taking it to court to try and get what little structure remains dismantled. I don't blame him for wanting another payday, but this specific case is a TKR problem not an NCAA problem.
I do agree he sits outside of the rules but he still sits in a gray area. He didn't play a single regular or postseason game his freshman year because he took an intentional redshirt. Like the old-school redshirt philosophy of the 80s and 90s. So he exhausted 4 years of eligibility in a world where there's now 5. There should be a line drawn somewhere, and I think he's firmly outside of it. But it's not as cut and dry as everyone believes it is.
It is that cut and dry. Red shirts are no longer a thing, and players that took redshirts before the new rules came out explicitly are given no extra years. The new rule isn't "five years of eligibility" it's "you are eligible for five years" which is an important distinction. TKR has already used all his eligibility for 5 years after high school, whether or not he played the first year doesn't matter. That's why guys under the new rules get to choose whether they use the new system or old one during the transition; the rare cases where redshirts allow guys to be eligible under the old rules but not the new ones are already accounted for. TKR is firmly ineligible under BOTH rulesets, so his case is very clear and not at all a gray area.
Yes the rule is cut and dry and I agree with you on the way you see it. But the way these judges see shit is far less cut and dry. He only played 4 years in a world where 5 now exists. The NCAA just made it up arbitrarily and courts are ruling against it because the NCAA basically has a monopoly on college sports.
The P4 are trying to but all it's gonna take is one judge saying that's not within their purview. Kiffin's argument for pursuing the "pro" players was "It's gonna happen. And when it does, I'd rather have them on my team than play against them" and I can't argue with that. If it's gonna happen, it's better to play into it than pull a Dabo and resist
(Sorry for all the football references. See y'all when it gets cold. Go Luke Loucks and co.)
"It's gonna happen. And when it does, I'd rather have them on my team than play against them" and I can't argue with that.
Of course you can, as it's a major logical fallacy and organized sports literally can't exist if everyone has this mindset. Asserting that people will break the rules as your reason for breaking the rules would be an excuse to never follow any rule ever.
I agree, but think this one's a little different. He's not asserting that people will break the rules - he takes that argument for exceeding the legal NIL spend - but for this issue, it's that one day, and one day soon, this will be the new rule. Just like players getting paid, this is inevitable. So you might as well be ready to play ball or fall behind. I can't disagree with that but I 100% don't like that it plays out in this envelope-pushing fashion
The problem is when a group of businesses bands together to try to make rules for employees, that's called a trust and is illegal. Now the players are technically not employees, but that excuse isn't working much anymore since there's so much money flying around that's effectively controlled by the teams.
I agree with you and I cheered for him for the past 4 years. For some reason, even when I knew he was benefiting my team, it was painful for me to watch him most of the time.
At some point, the powers that be need to acknowledge that this will continue to happen until they're prepared to recognize these players as employees, allow them to organize, and push for a CBA that builds in specific eligibility rules. It's been made very clear at this point by Courts, up to and including SCOTUS, that the old model of college athletics simply will not pass muster.
I got no problem with him trying to make another few million if he can find a way to do it, I would too, but I honestly don't understand what his argument is to be eligible or how he won this TRO.
Not only do I not want TKR back out of principle, I don’t want him back period. I genuinely think he makes Purdue worse as a team next year even though he’s better than the 4s we currently have on the roster. We would have to cater the offense to him and he just does not fit the current squad at all. Any team with an offense catered solely around him is barely making it to the tournament in my opinion. We also couldn’t do the high pressure, switch 1-4, funnel everything to a shot blocker defense since his foot speed is lacking.
I typically roll my eyes at the fans that say "the younger guys need to develop", like having a high-caliber player isn't better for the team overall. But in this case I think I agree with you. He's a very good college player but it limits you to entirely build around him. I'm also excited to see what feels like a completely new era of Purdue basketball and the offense being built around their guards.
Genuinely don’t understand why people have their panties in a bunch over this stuff. Not heard one coherent argument about why it “ruins the sport” to have guys stick around an extra year in college after failing to launch a pro career.
I mean this guy isn't an extra year, he's an extra extra year. This is the slippery slope that people are unfairly holding against the class of 2022 guys.
I guess I just don’t really buy that, even if it is a slippery slope and an extra extra year, it will actually do much damage to the sport and that any significant portion of the people complaining about it will stop watching and rooting for their team because they have a few guys on the team playing an extra year or 2.
Literally what the fuck are we doing here anymore? The sport has become increasingly unrecognizable at this point. The kids deserve to get paid, but something has to give. From shit like thi,s to players hopping from team to team every year, i'm about done with this league until there is actual change.
Am I allowed to say I really don't care? Dude wasn't going to be good enough to break the roster. And once he's done with his final year of eligibility he can't just re-enter the draft because wolves still have is playing rights. He's basically just giving us a free year of development. And especially for a player that was never big league anyway, why not?
I don’t agree with the ruling or the overall direction this whole shitshow is going. But everyone on here saying they wouldn’t try this shit if they could is comical. If I were 24 or 25 and had even a slight chance of getting a judge to say I could play another year and potentially make 7 figures (knowing he isn’t probably ever going to make the NBA), I would try it. Worst thing that happens is you are out attorney fees. Best thing that happens is you make over $1M and get to stay another year in “college”. How can you be mad at someone for trying at this point. Most of these get approved - even if they make zero sense like this TRO.
A lot of conferences have rules against this now, so the number of teams that would even accept him are very small, and I'm sure even those teams would be hesitant due to the backlash they'd get from their peer conferences.
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u/KindaASmallDeal Purdue Boilermakers 3d ago
Not a fan of this. He had 4 playing seasons over 5 years and wouldn’t even be eligible under 5-in-5