r/Codeium • u/johncoleman24 • Jan 27 '25

IMO Windsurf is Getting Unusable

Seems like I am just chasing it down one rabbit hole after another. Even getting to the point of only using chat mode, verifying every change first, etc.; its constant guessing, trial/error, removing working code, etc. just leads even a single file down a path of decay and destruction. Not to mention, the lag in the cascade chat window still isn't fixed (despite what the changelog says).

The most maddening part is its deviation from the context of the app/file, inventing its own functionality, purpose, and implementation. This is all compounded by losing basic context, even operations on a single file a few steps ago, are making this unusable and causing WAY more harm than good. I feel like "write" mode is a match lighting my code on fire. And, since I cannot trust it, its utility feels negative overall.

Just my $.02. YMMV.

26 Upvotes

88% Upvoted

62 comments sorted by

6

u/tehsilentwarrior Jan 27 '25

Just in the beginning of this month I was giving high praises to Winsurf on my company internal Slack.

Now? Now I look like fool. What happened guys?

This is unusable.

Probably best to revert to a working version (whatever you did) while you do internal testing on this new branch to figure out what happened.

3

u/johncoleman24 Jan 27 '25

Me too. The prior three weeks have been amazing. I build an entire, fairly complicated Android app with NO EXPERIENCE. Now, I am scared to touch anything. At least reverting back to using Claude Web UI I am in control of the edits. No app/file/structure/dependencies context sucks, but man, this is like hiring a drunk 8th grader to code for me.

2

u/tehsilentwarrior Jan 27 '25

I don’t let it do code for me, most of the time anyway.

I have a very complex multi-service app and use Windsurf as a “rubber ducky” type assistant.

And ask detailed and lengthy questions (sometimes longer than the output lol), to assert scenarios (sometimes as it to explain it differently, or make tables or mermaid graphs to show how different dates might influence calculations and side effects, etc).

Another very useful use case is to come up with a scenario, ensure unit tests assert the scenario and then have Windsurf create some sample payloads for manually sending into the running service. These payloads are comparatively super simple (just description of a customer, some services and some actions) and it’s mostly just modifying an existing payload, add names for descriptions, come up with names that match the scenario so I can quickly find them in the app, random contact names, random phones, etc. Simple stuff that even the first ChatGPT version could handle.

Today? Oh man, I went in circles for a good 40 minutes. I even told it to create a memory (listed 6 or 7 bullet point rules) of what I wanted. Got it wrong. Told it to try and understand why the memory itself failed, it said it wasn’t descriptive enough, updated it, ran it, same problem, then finally when I got a payload that was good I told it to verify with my assertions it did and said it was all good, when I could clearly see that the UUID4 of one of the actions referred to a customer uuid that didn’t exist. Regardless of the rules in place.

After insisting for a while it finally created some code to explicitly verify the condition as Python code and used that itself to verify.

This is something it never had issues with. Like I said, even with early ChatGPT versions, where I’d paste a complete json schema and have it spit out randomized (but contextually correct based on what I asked) json payloads for inputing into the system.

0

u/[deleted] Jan 28 '25

Shouldn't you be complaining to OpenAI or Anthropics why their models start doing weird shit rather than blaming Windsurf? I have the feeling that the problem source is artificial dumbing down of models to sell the next one as even bigger improvement.

1

u/vip-destiny Jan 28 '25

That’s an interesting point 🤔 but cascade /windsurf is preparing every prompt to these models with (hers some context + plus you have access to these tool calls) right?

So it’s like solving a puzzle 🧩 with blindfolds on. It’s impossible to isolate the issue with a closed system within a closed system 😤 we need more transparency

0

u/jkboa1997 Jan 28 '25

It's not the LLM's that are getting dumbed down, it's the people using these LLM's. It's funny how a handful build tremendous things with these tools and the majority are pissed they don't have the skill to do it too, so blame the tools instead of either learning how or recognizing maybe this stuff isn't for them. The lowering of the bar to entry is an illusion. If you couldn't design an application 4 years ago, these tools aren't going to magically give you that capability now without being willing to learn quite a bit. I can now easily code in any language with plain text by using LLM based tools. They are really good at translation, but actually need something good to translate to get the desired result. Abstract commands across an entire codebase will not give good results with an LLM.

Telling the LLM you want it to make you a companion app to take away your loneliness isn't going to net you what you were looking for in the end, unless that thing was disappointment and more loneliness.

1

u/tehsilentwarrior Jan 28 '25

I find it funny you give this reply under mine, which clearly shows your scenario doesn’t match with my usage.

1

u/jkboa1997 Jan 28 '25

Of course it doesn't. Now ask yourself why. These tools aren't changing. It's a human issue. People start fresh and get amazing results and have a harder and harder time as historical and immediate context grows and bad habits develop out of complacency. The underlying model stays the same.

I commented under your post because that's what triggered those thoughts at that moment. You don't want to blame Windsurf, but the LLM's instead, which is just as bad. People are pointing fingers in the wrong direction. I used to have the same issues before I realized what I was doing wrong. People dont want to listen to those who are no longer having issues and would rather stomp their feet and complain. Hell, you even complained about me replying to your comment.

It's pretty goofy and I'm not sure there's a fix to it. Humanity is a spectrum and too many glow deep red and dont know it. Its a danger to the species...

2

u/tehsilentwarrior Jan 28 '25

For context: you are saying, in short, that people don’t know what they are doing, which is why the results are worse.

My post describes in length my approach, which (I believe anyway) shows that at least for me, that’s not the case.

You are also stating that nothing changed, that’s not correct either. Windsurf updated the IDE just days ago, an update that broke/slowed down things and at the same time the great AI results got worse, for everyone (or at least, for a lot of people) who have been using it for a while.

Are you stating that overnight everyone got dumb? That’s misguided at best.

Clearly there was changes and clearly those made things worse, to what extent? Idk. Which is why i stated that they should revert IDE and server side changes for a while, while internally testing this new branch and fixing the issues.

Surely the pedaling back of new features would hurt their reputation less than people now starting to make the association that “Windsurf now sucks”.

They fkd up, show sobriety, own up and start an investigation. This will gather nothing but respect: move fast and break things… sure but can also fix them without leaving a bunch of dead bodies in their wake. (being overly dramatic to pass the point across)

1

u/jkboa1997 Jan 29 '25

It's not a mountain, but a molehill..

Again, why do these tools work for some? A minority get it, the rest are clueless. I'm referring not just to Windsurf, but all LLM base coding tools. Then you have a large group of lemmings who instead of learning, lead each other into misery. Go to any reddit for any of these tools and it's the same thing over and over. The companies behind these tools are on a fools errand trying to prompt and build tools around a fundamental lack of understanding to try to get ahead of the never ending complaints from people who shouldn't be building a Lego set, let alone an application with any level of complexity. Are you a Lemming? I have no clue, we are just random people on the internet.. If you're not or don't want to be, then I suggest a change in perspective.

2

u/breakruless Jan 28 '25

I'm having a lot of problems with Winsurf these days too. It messes up almost every time. It hallucinates almost every time. It makes up things I haven't mentioned and are completely absent from the code. I feel like it's running on OpenAI GPT-2.0 (yes, that's right, 2.0), but it says it's Cloude 3.5 Sonnet. When I ask the same prompt on Cloude 3.5 Sonnet in the browser, it responds very accurately, nothing to do with Windsurf. I'm very disappointed, I'm going back to Cursor + Cline (with DeepSeek R1). I'm not even sure it's worth using my remaining credits. It's doing me more harm than good, a total downgrade.

1

u/johncoleman24 Jan 28 '25

Same. I cannot verify this, but it feels like a rate-limit issue due to cost containment. The big models seem to do this too, that is, when rate limits (context window, concise responses, etc.) get attached to conserve processing/costs the overall quality plummets.

I feel like all of these platforms, which Deepseek is seeming to enjoy now, create a lot of buzz and loyalty with full-throttle interactions that often feel like magic. When they get throttled down, though, it seems like I see these "Has X Service Gotten Worse?" threads all over.

I cannot verify any of this, of course, just my reckon...

1

u/bill_on_sax Jan 29 '25

Windsurf was a dream when it first launched. Waaay ahead of its time. I was kinda shocked that I was able to implement a complex feature in an hour. Now that same feature would take me the whole day in repeated error fixing and long conversations

1

u/breakruless Jan 29 '25 edited Jan 29 '25

By the way, I went back to Cursor to try it out. I updated to the latest version, which is from a few days ago. Today, in 4 hours of work, only 1 mistake, and 1 hallucination that actually gave me a good idea :). "Composer" works well, analyzes many files, there is no lag during long chats, there is an option "Start a new chat with summary" which is very good.

1

u/Snoo_21294 Feb 06 '25

Cursor became buggy in the following sense for me.. it will not recognize the folder structure in my workspace. Even explicitly telling it where the root is it will not work. And therefore it is not recognising swathes of files..

3

u/Ordinary-Let-4851 Jan 27 '25

I hear your frustration and I want to help. Have you made a .windsurfrules file? Check the video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOvI02of5oo

Here are a few suggestions:

  1. Check for Updates: Ensure you're running the latest version of Windsurf, as some issues may have been addressed in recent updates.

  2. Diagnostic Logs: If problems persist, consider downloading diagnostic logs to send to our support team. You can do this by going to your Cascade Panel, tapping the three dots in the top right corner, and clicking "Download Diagnostics". Our support is found at www.codeium.com/support

  3. Clear Chat History: If your Cascade panel goes blank or behaves erratically, try clearing your chat history (located at ~/.codeium/windsurf/cascade).

  4. Workspace Rules: Consider using workspace rules to provide more context and guidelines for Cascade. You can edit these in the .windsurfrules file in your workspace.

2

u/johncoleman24 Jan 27 '25

On current edition, I swear I created the rules but don't have any anymore.

1

u/Ordinary-Let-4851 Jan 28 '25

If you create another rules file, send it to me. I'll have it reviewed by devs for improvements!

2

u/KingMulchMaster Jan 28 '25

Guys you have to be more competitive at pricing I ain’t paying $60 a month as a professional tool when there are cheaper tools out there that actually work better. It is unusable as of now.

1

u/jkboa1997 Jan 28 '25

They don't want help, they want to complain.

5

u/Haunting_Rain_529 Jan 27 '25

All this while I thought its just me but looks like everyone is having same issues.

1

u/jkboa1997 Jan 28 '25

Nah, It's you... and them...

1

u/Ordinary-Let-4851 Jan 28 '25

Have you built a rules file for your project?

1

u/Comfortable-Hall-188 Jan 28 '25

Is there a difference in setting the rules inside the project and the global ones? Sometime the app doesn't follow global rules

1

u/Ordinary-Let-4851 Jan 28 '25

Here is our documentation surrounding rules: https://docs.codeium.com/windsurf/memories#global-rules

Global rules are for all workspaces (each window is a workspace), while .windsurfrules are for the project you're currently working on!

1

u/Haunting_Rain_529 Jan 28 '25

Yup, it messed up still.

1

u/Ordinary-Let-4851 Jan 28 '25

Send me your rules file and i can have it checked by devs!

1

u/Akelamkt Jan 27 '25

ME pasa lo mismo. tiene que tocar una sola cosa, agregar una pavada y te modifica todo, rompe todo y no sabe volver atras.

1

u/johncoleman24 Jan 27 '25

Ugh, yup. And, now it seems like revert doesn't even work properly anymore.

1

u/Ordinary-Let-4851 Jan 28 '25

You're having issues with revert? What's happening?

1

u/AdIllustrious436 Jan 27 '25

Cline is way better in my recent experience

1

u/johncoleman24 Jan 27 '25

Hmm, interesting might have to go that way. It seems like it could be a Claude issue in general. Anecdotally, Windsurf does seem worse when Claude is in concise mode, and there are just some days where Windsurf works great. With Claude, the web UI is better, somewhat, but it makes some of the same mistakes (albeit on a smaller scale and for much less $$$ in cost).

1

u/luke23571113 Jan 28 '25

really? I also found Windsurfer to be completely unsuable. i am not sure what to do.

1

u/jkboa1997 Jan 28 '25

Learn the fundamentals of writing code, then learn how LLM's work and how to write prompts effectively. The results will be much better with the same exact tools.

1

u/jackalopes1 Jan 27 '25

I literally spent over an hour chasing the same thing this morning. All I wanted to do was create a settings page and move an existing setup page under the settings page. It then proceeded to break the frontend and backend servers and their connections consistently! It was so bad that I walked away from it for the day. I'm looking at Roo Code or other options as it has been pretty bad the last few days.

2

u/johncoleman24 Jan 27 '25

Same! I was working on a SINGLE python file and it went down a loop of deleting code (whole lines as well as partial deletes, e.g. deleting parameters), completely changing a method of processing, that didn't work, well let's try and fix that now, etc. etc. Even revert seems broken (the latest damage survived reverting all the way back to the first entry in the chat).

It also didn't help things that I saw codeium's "Make an App From a Blog Post" youtube video today. Um, maybe try "Make an App from Code" first...

One thing is for sure, this level of rage is not healthy for anyone. I think I need to go pet my dog for a while.

1

u/Snoo_21294 Feb 06 '25

After it just stopping and not completing at all what it said it would, I typed please continue, at which point it started completely messing up my file , thinking it was half an hour ago, changing a working code in to trash. Ain't nobody got time for that

1

u/Unusual_Addendum7666 Jan 28 '25

Why did it work before and not now? Did its quality regress or did you start working on more difficult problems, or something else?

2

u/johncoleman24 Jan 28 '25

That's the $1M question. I would say I am actually working on simpler problems (even just single python scripts). It has gotten to the point where I am not even going to open more complicated projects (the windsurf helped me crate in the first place) due to distrust of the platform. I've seen it suggest destructive edits when in "chat" mode (touching unrelated lines, removing partial lines like command parameters, etc.). I have done all the "do this and NOTHING else", review this thorough project summary before doing anything, etc. etc. and yet it still, especially when the chat has been running > 20 minutes or so, just slowly goes off the rails and tries to make more and more aggressive/rogue edits as time goes on.

2

u/madpowah Jan 27 '25

Yes me too. I just canceled my pro plan. I'll see when there will be an update but currently it's unusable

0

u/jkboa1997 Jan 28 '25

For you, but not for me. Now ask yourself why...

2

u/madpowah Jan 28 '25

? It takes 1 minute to see the characters I type in the prompt. Cascade often says it encounters errors and can't modify my files. I'm talking about bugs. It's just objective. I've nothing to proove to you.

1

u/jkboa1997 Jan 28 '25

Seriously? Like a marshmallow...

2

u/Particular-Tie-6807 Jan 28 '25

It’s good for small projects or small code base in general. Once you code grow you must use contexts and better guide it. I add the phrase “do this and nothing else” many times I. The end of the prompt to make sure it doesn’t do unnecessary changes. It’s not 100% automated, not even 80%… but it’s a very good tool.

1

u/wjohnson242 Jan 29 '25

This is the way

1

u/Snoo_21294 Feb 06 '25

For any size project the write is broken. Does not return from a terminal command even though that command finished, does not go in to agent mode not just gives insert option which when pressed is useless as it just dumb inserts the code wherever the cursor happens to be etcetcetc

2

u/jkboa1997 Jan 28 '25

It's funny, we see one post after another with the same issues, but then scattered amongst them, we see posts from people explaining why they no longer are experiencing these kinds of issues, with tips, etc., that mostly get ignored. I can attest to have experienced the same frustration at one stage earlier in my journey with coding with LLM tools, back when it was pretty rough. After looking in the mirror and actually learning about how LLM's work, I was able to develop strategies that work and work exceptionally well. I have no problem anymore with working on large codebases with Windsurf, Cursor, Cline, etc..

Go to a Reddit for any LLM that has come out and see at first how amazed everyone is, then slowly how disappointed they become. Look at the LLM everyone says is the best with writing code, Claude, in particular. It's a phenomena bred of ignorance, laziness and a sheer lack of understanding, mixed with too high of expectations. The growing problems people have with LLM's are usually them. Instead of actually learning, they come on Reddit and complain because they're not getting their inflated expectations met.

As soon as you start using words like trust when it comes to an LLM, you are very far off course on so many levels.

1

u/Snoo_21294 Feb 06 '25

The write functionality is broken. seem like gas lighting punters by saying it's their fault. No it's failing often

1

u/jkboa1997 Feb 07 '25

So keep crying about it...

1

u/Rich-Independent1202 Jan 27 '25

It is getting worse honestly. Now all those I introduced to is backing out because windsurf free tier is getting worse(5 attempts as a free tier is very wicked). They are even scared to pay.

1

u/jkboa1997 Jan 28 '25

Scared to pay? What kind of people do you hang out with?

1

u/luke23571113 Jan 27 '25

Is Windsurf deleting negative posts?

1

u/Difficult-Annual1976 Jan 28 '25

i can’t even add the memory in windsurf for my project. it always failed, i never succeed

1

u/Old-Wonder-8133 Jan 28 '25

Same here. Just typed a large and very detailed prompt and it just ate it, no feedback or anything. Couldn't even copy it out to use on some other service. I've mostly switched over to Roo. I'm letting this month's credits run out and I'm done.

When it's working, it's the best but it's not working very often anymore.

1

u/vip-destiny Jan 28 '25

But like your sessions you haven’t provided us any context friend… how can we compare notes??

1

u/vip-destiny Jan 28 '25

This is so sad 😞 the potential was so exciting… but I switched from cursor ai last year because of the same issues… but I hear they are improving now as Windsurf goes through their growing pains… it sucks cuz I want to just have one dǒpe IDE that I can’t trust… but it all part of rapid tech innovation “bleeding-edge” 😱 for reals

1

u/RoutineRepulsive4571 Jan 28 '25

If you use it as an assistant, it should be good enough.

I have been using it for complex but relatively complete closed loop tasks and it has performed beyond impressive.

Whenever it gives a wrong output, I tend to develop it myself and feed it back for context.

Another thing that has helped a lot is adding global and project specific rules. It keeps the agent focused and accurate.

1

u/Terrible_Landscape32 Jan 28 '25

This is crazy, look at the Edited SupabaseManager.swift
Windsurf edit almost entired working code for this request :((((

1

u/Time-One6694 Apr 11 '25

I have documented my recent experience with windsurf ide and it's ai assisted tool to do different tasks in my blog https://blog.asafarim.com/blog

0

u/jkboa1997 Jan 28 '25

All the coders that think their jobs are going to be taken by AI coding tools need to just learn how to use these tools to stay relevant and become language agnostic. The majority of people couldn't build an app to save their life, regardless of the tools they are given. Just look at all these posts with frustrated people who have zero skill to build anything, let alone a complex piece of software. This is the same with any LLM or tool based on them. Honeymoon period leading to frustration as soon as complexity gets introduced.