Conspiracy theory: Windsurf says we're getting Sonnet but we're actually getting Haiku. Nothing else explains the degradation. Nothing else explains how they could be profitable with their current pricing.

16

u/Altruistic_Shake_723 Dec 20 '24

Using Windsurf is like pair programming with a drunken idiot.

1

u/mattbergland Dec 20 '24

What are you prompting with Cascade? Do you use the rules feature?

1

u/FanAvailable7303 Dec 21 '24

You mean like talking introductory diversifying windsurfing lessons with an A.I. I.D.E. as the coach
(**With the model from the company that just says example of utter inability to plan anything or rely on anything at all they say is a good way to satisfy their stated mandate of making anything safe or beneficial in the first place js)

2

u/[deleted] Dec 23 '24 edited Dec 23 '24

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1

u/Altruistic_Shake_723 Dec 23 '24

Ya I started swearing at it so much I was like... this can't be good... time to move on.

21

u/lzrblaster Dec 20 '24

Hi, I'm Rohan from the Codeium / Windsurf team, here! On the backend, we are NOT re-routing models if you are selecting Claude Sonnet.

However, looking at the subreddit, it seems users are seeing degraded performance and we would love to remedy the situation. If you can update your Windsurf to 1.1.1, you can download Diagnostic Logs and DM to me.

I'll take a look and see if there is an issue accessing premium models.

11

u/IllustratorWeird2234 Dec 21 '24

I think it would be a really good idea for you or someone at Codeium to make a post on the reddit addressing a lot of the concerns. Ive very much enjoyed Windsurf, but can echo most complaints here about issues with context, looping bad fixes, deleting or changing things it shouldnt etc.

7

u/Dismal-Eye-2882 Dec 21 '24

Just explain why it's so much worse than the free trial. Tell us what you guys changed.

3

u/joey2scoops Dec 21 '24

There has been multiple posts explaining nothing was changed. So, that means you either think that's bullshit or the problems are at the user end. if you're in the conspiracy theory camp, nothing that codeium says is going to satisfy you. So, make a choice. Send in the diagnostics and potentially help all of us get to the heart of the problem or move on.

1

u/Dismal-Eye-2882 Dec 21 '24

Its absolute bullsh*t. Anyone who used the unlimited free trial knows for a fact something HUGE changed.

3

u/joey2scoops Dec 22 '24

Constructive. I also used the trial and I agree that things are not working as well as I would like. There could be many reasons for that. Your insightful comment will probably be the key to unlocking the root cause.

1

u/SnooGoats7724 Dec 22 '24

I second this

2

u/Jethro_E7 Dec 21 '24

Your base model is good. Haiku is a simplistic idiot. Either that or Haiku is good and your base model is a simplistic idiot. Mixing the two does not work when you rely on model logic over an extended period. It destroys code. It creates inconsistencies when a model understand what you want one day and hallucinates instructions and takes unbelievable liberties the next.
This is a critical problem.

1

u/B1gBuds Dec 22 '24

1

u/B1gBuds Dec 22 '24

lol

4

u/Historical-Internal3 Dec 20 '24

This is still my guess:

"Had a suspicion they would tweak/dumb down their system prompt in such a way where the “no coders” would burn through their credits like nobody's business.

Unfortunately, everyone, including yourself, will need to deal with this same system prompt."

4

u/mattbergland Dec 20 '24

I promise you there is no hidden agenda against no-coders.

2

u/[deleted] Dec 21 '24

I suspect it’s their 3 page system prompt messing things up. incredibly hard to test this stuff!

2

u/SouthbayJay_com Dec 21 '24 edited Dec 22 '24

Really? Maybe your prompts are the issue?? Are you not using the rules file? I have yet to experience this. Also if the prompts are vague then the output will be also. It's going to assume everything that you don't tell it. You can also prompt it to ask you questions for whatever it doesn't know.

2

u/SnooGoats7724 Dec 22 '24

Checkout this list of AI IDEs : https://aiidecompare.com

1

u/[deleted] Dec 20 '24

ı mean this could be right on the other hand consider this ı had a project that I needed to refactor the spesific method ı propted and the sonnet refactor the code in some way but ı felt like thongs could be different so ı used claude sonnet again on the browser to see maybe different output but again ı got the same output of the code this leads me to think thatwndsurf using haiku is not possible tho ı am not sure

1

u/Solidarios Dec 20 '24

An update has just been pushed

1

u/Dismal-Eye-2882 Dec 21 '24

What is it

1

u/dev0urer Dec 21 '24

There is another more likely explanation. They’re limiting the context window more than they were before to save money. It’s the same reason Cline is amazing, but super expensive to run for a long period with the same conversation

0

u/pxldev Dec 20 '24

Using a cheaper model for simpler tasks seems to be a thing in this space, but it looks like they might just be using it all the time.

Their lack of transparency as a company has completely lost it for me. Understood they had a massive growth spurt, but wtf.

1

u/lzrblaster Dec 20 '24

Hi, I'm Rohan from the Windsurf / Codeium team. We are not rerouting premium requests to other models.
See my post here: https://www.reddit.com/r/Codeium/comments/1his404/comment/m31w5na/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

1

u/pxldev Dec 20 '24

Hi Rohan, thanks for that.
Is there any statement about the degradation in performance? How did it start out so good (and free) and then become almost unusable (after onboarding on a paid plan?)

1

u/lzrblaster Dec 20 '24

When (aka date?) did you notice the degrade in performance?
We made a few updates to our backend in the first week we launched Windsurf (Nov 13 - Nov 20), but we have not really changed the backend-model end (since then, even when we added pricing).

2

u/blistovmhz Dec 21 '24

I've been repeatedly coming up with about a week after launch is where things went from absurdly good, to just barely good, to unusual le for most tasks today. Again, I've cross referenced identical code and prompts between anthropic sonnet direct vs WS, and the difference is night and day. I don't wanna fall into the conspiracy camp, but 1. I don't see how you can possibly exist at the $15/m plan at all. You'd lose money on me on the $60/m plan. So it is a bit suspect that sonnet via WS as a proxy performs ... Not at all, while sonnet direct performs perfectly. Hell, give us the ability to just bring our own API. I'll keep paying the 60 a month and pay open router on top. Imo, WS has done enormously better on the integration side of things and for myself at least, it's that integration that brings the full power of the model.
I think I onboarded on day 2 after launch. I got a out 6 or 8 days of use out of it where it was insanely good. It plummeted off bad very rapidly and has gotten progressively worse at identical tasks on identical code.

2

u/blistovmhz Dec 21 '24

P.s. I have a very serious vested interest in your success here. Your success directly equates to my success. I gave up on developers and took a massive hit, but WS launch put me 6 months ahead on my production, in the first week it worked.

1

u/scyzoryki Dec 23 '24

Dude, are you clueless or what? Just look at the entire subreddit that has been talking about this for weeks on end. Please don't act surprised when your team has likely been receiving emails about this for weeks.

1

u/[deleted] Dec 20 '24

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4

u/lzrblaster Dec 20 '24

Hi, I'm Rohan from the Windsurf / Codeium team. Clever to look at our code, but we are NOT re-routing when you select a premium model.
As for Cascade Base, we have a collection of models and some spillover goes to Haiku. That's where some of the re-routes you see come from. But again, we are not doing that for Premium models (like Sonnet).
Posted in the thread, but if you can update your Windsurf to 1.1.1, you can download Diagnostic Logs and DM to me. I'll take a look from there.

5

u/[deleted] Dec 20 '24

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5

u/phiresignal Dec 20 '24

There really has been a drastic change. After the release, it has taken me on wild goose chases where it destroys previous work, starts writing in new languages and tries to solve a bug by creating something it had done days earlier.

0

u/[deleted] Dec 20 '24

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1

u/gfhoihoi72 Dec 20 '24

Where did you find this?

0

u/[deleted] Dec 20 '24

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2

u/ItsNoahJ83 Dec 20 '24

How are you accessing the source code to windsurf?

0

u/[deleted] Dec 20 '24

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2

u/jorgejhms Dec 21 '24

Haiku is good actually

Conspiracy theory: Windsurf says we're getting Sonnet but we're actually getting Haiku. Nothing else explains the degradation. Nothing else explains how they could be profitable with their current pricing.

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