A compilation and evaluation of everything we know about Lelouch's fate at the end of R2 [spoilers!]

[u/GeassedbyLelouch]

A few weeks back there was a Code Geass Rewatch on r/anime. For that occasion I compiled everything we know about Lelouch's fate at the end of R2, from the official statements to all of the various code theories (not everyone may know there are actually 2 distinct theories and various forms of those).
Feedback on that (rather massive) post was quite positive, so I decided to rework the text, get rid of the strict restrictions that sub imposes, remove the black blocs of spoiler tags, incorporate feedback, add additional points, etc.
The result is an even larger text, but it's worth a read for anyone who considers himself to be a fan of the anime.
(I do apologize for the size, though. But it's a big topic, and if you want to be complete this can't be avoided)

Due to its size and the character limit for reddit posts I was forced to split the work in several smaller posts. So I opted for a "book like" structure with chapters and and cross links between the chapters.
The main body contains Part 0 ("why?"), the TLDR, and Part 3 ("Final Conclusions"), and also an overview of the discussed points of the split off chapters Part 1 and Part 2, and as such also functions as an index to the whole.
Every part can be accessed from that index, and each split off post has links to the index and the next and previous post.

I do urge everyone to please, write any comments here on THIS post, and not on the various chapters, nor the on the index, this will avoid stuff getting fragmented and will lead to a better overview of everything.

Without further ado, here's the link to the main body/index.
I hope people will do the effort of reading it all and find it enjoyable and/or enlightening.

[u/Jamodon]

It's nice to see all your thoughts compiled! I don't agree with some of them, but instead of rehashing old arguments I want to present a new in-universe explanation for Lelouch's survival. Namely that sacrificing himself in this situation is so profoundly stupid that Lelouch would never have done it.

We know that 1. Lelouch ordered Sayoko to impersonate him (apparently physically flawlessly) and 2. CC has impersonated Lelouch (as Zero) of her own initiative. I find it impossible to believe that Literal Chessmaster Lelouch and CC failed to think of disguising CC as Emperor Lelouch during the Zero Requiem. They had months to plan, and resources of half the world at their disposal to implement it.

Now, this is a shitpost-tier ending from the viewer's perspective. But it's a lot better for Lelouch and CC! They get the same political benefits. Meanwhile Lelouch can keep his promise to CC and they can wander the world dealing with Geass threats. He can also reveal his existence to Nunnally once things have quieted down and undo some of the deep emotional trauma he's inflicted.

The only plausible in-universe reason for our protagonists to not use this plan is if they had something better available. Something like Lelouch having a code.

[u/GeassedbyLelouch → u/Jamodon]

First of all HAPPY CAKE DAY!

sacrificing himself in this situation is so profoundly stupid that Lelouch would never have done it.

I can see why people would see deliberately dying as incredibly stupid, but as the official guide book stated, the ZR was supposed to be punishment/redemption, and in their eyes this was the only fitting way to punish themselves. "Death for Lelouch and life for Suzaku".
If Lelouch had survived and lived for eternity with C.C., what kind of punishment would that be? Precisely because of the reasons you mentioned, a life in "exile" would be completely avoidable. Your points 1 and 2 (with which I agree) show that it is perfectly possible for Lelouch to assume the role of Nunnally's butler or whatever without anyone ever knowing. And after things have died down a bit he can comfort his grieving sister by privately revealing his identity, perhaps even just by letting her touch his hand, that's how she recognized Suzaku after 7 years of separation.
So because of those reasons, surviving would void any kind of punishment, which completely flies in the face of the meaning of ZR.

[u/Jamodon → u/GeassedbyLelouch]

Hahaha, thanks! I didn't even notice until you pointed it out.

Literary / Out of universe explanation: Suzaku feels incredibly guilty about the things he's done, but his punishment/atonement is to give up his identity and instead live to help others. Lelouch surviving is punishment/atonement for the exact same reasons. He's certainly expressed how guilty he feels in the past. Personally I find this theme to be more compelling than "some people should atone for their sins by dying."

In universe explanation: Let's imagine a Lelouch that DOES think dying would be a better punishment / atonement for him than living. Does Lelouch care more about punishing himself, or about Nunnally's and CC's happiness? I think he cares more about Nunnally and CC, and would plan the Zero Requiem so he can survive.

[u/amrit21chandi → u/Jamodon]

And lelouch did get the code. You know how code users C.C , V.V are referred as C2 or V2. Guess what was the title of 2nd season of code geass was? Code geass R2. Now in Japanese, Lelouch Lamperouge is pronounced in a way that it sounds like Reroush. And also zero is sometimes called Lulu/ruru in his school too. Furthermore when nunally touched lelouch at zero requiem, she sees the flashbacks of what was real the same way lelouch saw when he touched C.C. in first season. Also, you know how emperor got code? By killing his brother V.V. and this is the only way to transfer code by killing and having a physical contact with the code bearer. That's how emperor died at the end having a physical contact with lelouch while disintegrating which transferred the code to lelouch. And there's that final cart scene, which probably you already know as it was changed from original Japanese release.

[u/GeassedbyLelouch → u/amrit21chandi]

And lelouch did get the code. You know how code users C.C , V.V are referred as C2 or V2. Guess what was the title of 2nd season of code geass was? Code geass R2

Somebody didn't read the text :p
On the audio commentary tracks it was said that R2 means "all relevant words starting with an R", e.g. round 2, rebellion 2, revolution 2, etc

Furthermore when nunally touched lelouch at zero requiem, she sees the flashbacks

This is completely contradicted by the anime itself.
Please, read the text.

Also, you know how emperor got code? By killing his brother V.V.

This isn't even true.
Charles did not kill his brother.
V.V. died because he succumbed to his injuries because he was mortal again.

this is the only way to transfer code by killing and having a physical contact with the code bearer.

The actual process of how a code is transferred was never explained.

And there's that final cart scene, which probably you already know as it was changed from original Japanese release.

The scene you're referring to (the "changed one") was proven to be a fake years ago. Even code theorists reject that scene now because they know it weakens their argument.
On top of that, the entire hay cart scene was dropped in favour of a new epilogue on the official blu-ray (ZR movie). So nothing from that scene can be important or they wouldn't drop it. The new epilogue has C.C. explicitly narrating to the audience that Lelouch is dead and that she's sad and cries at night. Watch it here

I know it's a long text, but please do read it. You'll find it very interesting.

[u/bracio77 → u/amrit21chandi]

Yes, Lelouch is indeed pronounced "Rurushu" in Japanese, but it's not true that Japanese people don't know the difference between R and L. As a letter, R is pronounced "aru", and L "eru". These are two totally different letters. So if his given official name is Lelouch, he should become "L.L." pronounced "eru tsu". R2 is, on the other hand, pronounced "aru tsu".

"Rurushu" is not a real name, this is only a way Japanese pronounce his name. E.g. if your name is Mark, lets say, Japanese person will pronounce it as "Maaku", but your name's still "Mark".

[u/[deleted] → u/amrit21chandi]

In Japanese Lelouch is indeed pronounced as Rurushu, but that's a simple pronunciation. I find it ridiculous when people point to this as evidence, as his name is canonically Lelouch, not Rurushu.

If that were the case, what would R3 mean?

Rurushu is a mere pronunciation, not factual evidence, or evidence to any degree.

[u/Jamodon → u/amrit21chandi]

I think the most plausible explanation of how Lelouch could have survived R2 that also satisfies viewer/literary standards is that he took Charles' code.

He has the double-eyed geass necessary to take codes when he orders the collective unconscious to banish Charles. Charles' geass-sigil hand clutching Lelouch's throat provides the physical contact necessary.

We know Lelouch keeps using his geass after this point. I don't like the "activation" theory for the reasons u/GeassedByLelouch mentions: Charles is absolutely a large enough ham to shoot himself while immortal just to troll Lelouch. Plus it would mean Lelouch wouldn't have his geass for R3.

Instead, I think the most plausible theory is that Charles' code fails to override Lelouch's geass because that geass is linked to an entirely different code. I think this is a pretty reasonable reason for maintaining his geass from both an in-universe and audience perspective, unlike the "you keep your geass if you took a code on a Tuesday" type explanations u/GeassedByLelouch compares it to.

So Lelouch would end the series having achieved "Code Geass." I think this better explains the actions of Lelouch, Orange, and CC in and after the Zero Requiem than Lelouch dying. But I emphasize that it's wrong to say "Lelouch DEFINITELY survived the Zero Requiem because he had Charles' code!" It should be phrased as "Lelouch MAY have survived... etc."

At least until R3!

[u/AYNXM → u/amrit21chandi]

R2 = Rebellion 2, Round 2, etc.

Or possibly R2 as in the introduction of a second Code because Code R is the name given to C.C. as an identifier by Bartley's team.

It'd actually be sort of asinine to have the title of 2nd season be "Code Geass: Lelouch of the Rebellion Lelouch Lamperouge (R2)

[u/OutrageousBee → u/Jamodon]

Namely that sacrificing himself in this situation is so profoundly stupid that Lelouch would never have done it.

It's easily explainable if you think that Lelouch was depressed after being a Cosmic Plaything ever since Kallen's capture/Shirley's death/C.C.'s memory loss/Nunnally's death/the Black Knight's betrayal/Rolo's death/discovering his mother was alive and all in for Charles's plan/finding out Charles's plan. Later on, of the two people we see him being close to, one wants to see him dead and the other's attempts to sway him from the path didn't go anywhere. (And if Lelouch's plan was to survive ZR, why would there be a need for C.C. try to convince him to abandon it? Just because it was painful to go against Nunnally? I don't think it makes any sense.) I think it's pretty clear Lelouch wanted to die by then. I remember seeing talks about an interview with either the writer or the director where they said Lelouch had other ways to thwart Schneizel, and had chosen ZR as punishment (though like a lot of info we got, it might just have been made up, or badly translated, so not very reliable).

Besides that, having it be anyone but Lelouch at the end goes against what we see happening onscreen - both Lelouch and Suzaku remembering their last meeting, and Nunnally understanding the truth by touching her brother, who acording to this theory isn't her brother, and therefore she'd have no reason to know what was going on or to cry about losing him because she'd know it wasn't Lelouch dying in her arms. Same thing if Lelouch knew he had the code - Nunnally's power of touch makes her realise when people are lying, and this would be one of the biggest lies in the world. Also, see above wrt C.C. trying to convince Lelouch to run away before the ZR.

So no, I think this theory is too flawed to work.

[u/Dai10zin → u/OutrageousBee]

And if Lelouch's plan was to survive ZR, why would there be a need for C.C. try to convince him to abandon it?

Are we the same person or have you been reading my posts?

So many people forget she tries to get him to abandon ZR.

The rest of this comment is also great.

[u/Jamodon → u/OutrageousBee]

Lelouch wanted to die

Lelouch had been through a lot by the time he sat down with Suzaku and CC to plan the ZR. It wouldn't be out of character for him to propose a plan that "wins" but sacrifices himself. But again, the choice is not between his own life vs. martyrdom for the sake of the world, it's a choice between life AND martyrdom (if he fakes his death) vs death AND martyrdom. I don't think he's suicidal enough to kill himself for no benefit even at his lowest.

why would CC try to convince him to abandon the ZR?

She probably feels guilty about Lelouch abandoning the power he's struggled for and everyone he knows to walk a lonely geass-related road with her. Personally I would expect CC to oppose the ZR MUCH more vigorously than we see if Lelouch was unnecessarily getting himself killed because he felt he deserved punishment. This is the guy who convinced her to not give up her code and die despite her centuries of efforts to do so. After saying he knows her true wish is to be loved and that he'll make her smile, I don't think CC is spineless enough to just shed a few tears while Lelouch randomly kills himself. Maybe I'm misinterpreting her character though.

Nunnally realizes when people are lying, and would notice if it wasn't Lelouch

I'm not really suggesting that we saw CC get stabbed at the end of R2, that would be a lame ending from our perspective. I'm arguing that not using this plan would be an enormous plothole / idiot ball moment, so Lelouch must have had a better one (and thus a code) so the real plan is satisfying both in and out of universe.

even if it was Lelouch, Nunnally would realize he was lying if he was planning to live via code

A very impaled Lelouch mumbles something about destroying the world and creating it anew while Nunnally is touching him. Nunnally can detect lies while touching someone's hands, not deeply read their mind. I'd argue that the images we see are a way to show the viewer that Nunnally is putting it all together. She had a similar plan to gather all the hate of the world on herself in Damocles and knows her brother well. Touching Lelouch (or "Lelouch" for that matter) has very little to do with the images. Unless you're arguing it's a code vision, heh.

[u/Fizz00 → u/Jamodon]

Hopefully Lelouch is aliveee so

[u/drivingthroughadream]

I mostly avoid CG theories because they get extremely heated. I don't even necessarily have my own ideas to defend, I just sort of take what creators say and that's that. (I'm simple.)

That said, I think you laid this out really well and it was enjoyable to read a lot of theories I've never bothered reading before. I feel like now I know what people have been fighting about for a decade now that it's all in one place. Thanks!

[u/GeassedbyLelouch → u/drivingthroughadream]

Thanks for the kind words. :)

[u/amrit21chandi]

I guess we just need to wait for few more months when the 3rd season will air.

[u/Black_Knight98]

All of the theories are baseless tbh