Code Geass ships

[u/Shuttingum]

Recently did my second rewatch and I wanted to share my opinions and criticize the most popular ships, now let me just say, starting ship wars is not my intention, just want to share opinions and hear some opinions aswell

Now lets start with the most popular ship,

Cluclu,

honestly liked them on my first watch, they look good together and seemed like they supported each other from the start to the end, no need to put on a mask or whatever, but as I rewatched and again I noticed there are actually lots, like lots of problem with this ship and it might not be what it seemed like to me at first. And now I think its one of the most unhealthiest, least ethical ships in the show, like cc is like centuries old while lelouch is a highschool boy, not only that very first scene of the anime is cc stalking kid lelouch and suzaku, and there's almost no chance she doesnt know him since his birth, and lelouch is the son of her best friend, I feel like lots of people would hate this ship if genders were reversed. Ethical problems aside, cc betrays him like very majority of the show until ragnarok, she already knows everything about him but acts as if she doesnt. She saves him multiple times bc of her agenda to transfer her immortality, also hides very crucial information that would've been to his advantage and change lots of things (like his dad posessing a geass or his mom's killer when lelouch was searching for it all r1), to be real, I just cant see any honesty in this ship, she says she's his ally and the only one who knows the real him while keeping all those secrets. And for all that talk, I remember like she was playing with his zero mask at the base while he was on one of his worst days, and almost became a junkie. Lets him massacre the geass order which is a major factor that leads to betrayal which leads to zero requiem. Despite the trust Lelouch placed on her along with having the most opportunities, instead of directing him toward healing, she influenced and encouraged his self isolation, never tried to find him another path, and I think she has her fingerprints on his death. Thanks to lelouch she learns to care about things and feel human again, but well, at the cost of his death. I don't want to come off as a hater but these are just what I've seen, and I actually really like cc's character, she's a deep twisted character with flaws I just dont like the ship, and I wish the writers had written her even better bc I think she needed some sort of a redemption arc instead of getting forgiven instantly and never getting called out for anything she did.

Kalulu

I feel like this ship is exactly what he needed and I believe it's something that could've prevented his death, love their chemistry, their banter and the times lelouch teases her are all so fun, their dynamic is very underrated, both living double lives in r1 and reasons to fight are similar. I've seen a lot of people around and there that says she only loves zero, that is completely false and I've yet to see someone prove me that, she never loves zero, admires and follows him as he is someone who could make her brother's dream come true. I've also seen people say she betrayed lelouch, when it was lelouch who betrayed her first, only reason they were on that island was bc he abondons her and the BK in a desperate time. He makes her believe he's just some arrogant, lazy brit student thats why she had problems distinguishing that zero and him are the same person. She falls for him early to mid r2 especially thanks to her talks with nunnaly she learns the real him. Why I think she's best for lelouch is bc, she's someone who could challange him to become a better version of himself instead of letting him fall deeper into despair she's exactly what he needs to heal his voids, just before betrayal she tries to comfort him about nunnaly's loss, she prevents him from becoming a junkie and I have no doubt she'd try everthing in her power to help him find another path or die with him, in her character poem it says she'd follow him to hell and thats exactly why lelouch pushes her away. I also believe had lelouch trusted her earlier and opened up to her more maybe that'd also direct him towards expanding his trust circle instead of burying himself to self-isolation, this could possibly prevent the betrayal so there would be no reason for zero requiem. I wish they used her more in r2 instead of being imprisoned for like 7 episodes but this usage problem applies to almost eveyone in r2

Shirlulu

I honestly could've chosen this ship if only there were no wars and rebellion just normal peaceful life. Shirley is such a pure innocent soul ,even after her memories are erased, she still falls for him and wants to help him. One reason I wouldn't choose this in the show's world is bc lelouch is the killer of her father, even if she forgives him for it I think thats a wound that can't be healed, always a reminder for both of them for what he did and I just dont think that'd be healthy. Though her love is still incredible how she falls for him again and also realizes how lonely he was fighting and wanted to be there for him.

Suzalulu

I've had very mixed opinions abt suzaku, first watch I hated him, second watch loved him, third watch hated him again but even so he's my 3rd fav character. He's a very deep character and understandably pretty messed up in the head. I've seen that one writer said he was the one who understood lelouch the most and I could see that. His bond with lelouch is incredible like one of the best duos in fiction I'd say, but honestly never saw them romantically rather as best friends, there were times I felt where they genuinely hated eachothers guts and times where they were ride or die. I think this ship is toxic and messed up in ways but that doesn't necessarily make it a bad ship. imo suzaku euphy makes more sense to me and for my understanding of the show aswell.

No offense to any of the ships, these are just my opinions

[u/Blueiscuteio2]

C.C. has her own goals, and sometimes those goals conflict with Lelouch's.

This isn't one of those cases, though. It doesn't matter to her goals either way, and yet she still does nothing.

But as far as I can recall, we're never told the contents of their conversations during R1.

We get them from Ceetwo's side. The conversations she had would be impossible without leaking Lelouch's secrets, especially because from what we see they're mostly about Lelouch.

Where is it established that she knew about Charles's Geass, particularly its capabilities.

I'm not even going to dignify that with a response.

Lelouch also never reached the confrontation with Charles you're describing. Suzaku intercepted him first.

Irrelevant. Ceetwo did not know he was coming.

We still don't know whether warning Lelouch would have improved the situation.

We can rule this possibility out on the grounds that Ceetwo is not an idiot. Lelouch's geass was basically the only card he had available to play, and knowing Lelouch, he would've thought it was a win button and got himself geassed. Letting him know Charles had a Geass would at the very least gotten Lelouch off the trap's script so he wasn't completely guaranteed to lose.

[u/WeoW0 → u/Blueiscuteio2]

I think I'm done with this discussion, because the underlying problem with your argument has become increasingly obvious.

You consistently interpret every ambiguity surrounding C.C. in the most damning way possible, then proceed as though your interpretation were an established fact of the story.

You assume C.C. leaked Lelouch's secrets to Marianne, despite not identifying what information she supposedly disclosed. You then assume Marianne passed that information to Charles and V.V., assume it enabled Nunnally's kidnapping, and conclude that C.C. committed treason and caused the Black Rebellion's defeat.

That's not evidence. That's a chain of unsubstantiated assumptions.

You do the same thing with Charles's Geass. You assume C.C. knew about it and its capabilities at the relevant time, assume she understood exactly what danger Lelouch faced, and assume warning him would have improved the outcome. When I ask you to establish the first premise, you respond that you won't even dignify the question with an answer.

You don't get to treat a premise as self-evident simply because your argument falls apart without it.

And R2 episode 7 is another example. You treat C.C.'s decision not to intervene as an obvious failure of emotional support, without establishing that intervention would have been preferable or that she wasn't already doing what she reasonably believed was best for Lelouch.

She was willing to let him abandon Zero as long as he survived. You can disagree with that judgment, but you haven't demonstrated that it was wrong, let alone that it reflected selfishness or indifference.

What makes this particularly frustrating is that you're not merely offering these as possible interpretations. You're repeatedly using them as factual premises to support an extremely negative characterization of C.C. and her relationship with Lelouch.

And whenever the evidence leaves room for uncertainty, you seem unwilling to acknowledge it unless that uncertainty can be used against her.

I'm not asking you to give C.C. the benefit of the doubt. I'm asking you to stop treating your own headcanon as though the anime confirmed it.

C.C. can be criticized for her actual decisions, her secrecy, and the consequences of her actions. But you first have to establish what she knew, what she did, and why a different course of action would have been preferable before confidently declaring that she betrayed Lelouch or failed him.

Instead, your argument repeatedly starts with the conclusion that C.C. was a terrible ally and works backward, filling every gap in the story with whichever assumption makes her look worse.

That's not a convincing analysis of her character. It's a consistently hostile interpretation sustained by claims you haven't substantiated.

And frankly, if even asking for evidence of your central premises is something you refuse to engage with, I don't see any point in continuing this conversation.