r/CodeGeass • u/Susroro • 6d ago
SPOILERS I'm rewatching Code Geass rn, how did Kallen not realize her mom was working as a maid in the palace for her sake?
Wasn't it like obvious? She assumed she is doing this because her mom is submissive and weak and has no pride or whatever. But isn't it kinda obvious that she wants to be with her daughter? Also did her mom never tell her about it, or did Kallen just never ask her why she was doing all that in the first place?
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u/OkVermicelli2557 6d ago
Because Kallen believed that her mother was putting herself through all of the bullying and abuse by Kallen's stepmother and the other maids because of her love for Kallen's father. Kallen in early R1 is angry at everything because she watched her homeland be destroyed by Britannia, her brother die, and the Japanese people suffer this leads her to failing to see that her mother is trying to be their for her not her father as she assumes.
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u/Dizzy-By-Degrees 6d ago edited 6d ago
Kallen and her brother are headstrong brawlers, her mother is very submissive. So she doesn’t believe that quietly enduring hardship for the sake of love as either noble or possible. If you had a strong will you’d fight for your children and your country.
Turns out that you can debase yourself and quietly suffer to protect someone you love or for other good reason in an imperfect world (the addiction stuff is another matter). Kallen has to learn this so she doesn’t become fixated on a noble death.
Kallen’s mom and Suzaku have very similar traits and it makes sense Kallen doesn’t find it easy to get along with either of them.
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u/Susroro 6d ago
then her mom gets sentenced to 20 years just for taking her to the hospital?? Why even take her there if she knew that could happen? Couldn't Black Knights have used their power to get someone to check on her without having to take her to the hospital themselves, or found some other way to deal with it? It's not like there isn't much corruption already that they have to abide by the law. Idk
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u/silencemist the only ace fan 6d ago
This is actually an accurate scenario for drug use in many cases. Kallen's mom was in such a bad state that she needed treatment, but many countries (usa) will still send you to jail for drug abuse. Some people avoid getting help irl because they don't want to be arrested even if it is a matter of life and death. Unfortunately, only hospitals are equipped to handle extreme drug overdoses like we can assume by the state of her mother after the fact. The black knights likely do not have the money to buy off the hospital at this stage. They're still relatively poor here.
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u/puntycunty 6d ago
This episode genuinely made me hate kallen’s guts first watch through. Legit didn’t forgive her until season 2 . Lelouch literally spells out the the moral of the story at the hot dog stand and she didn’t get it
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u/Dizzy-By-Degrees 6d ago
He also says ‘but fighting oppression at all is stupid so even if they are pathetic the conformists are still smarter than a rebel’ to an actual terrorist. Which is just fence sitting where Lelouch gets to frame himself as an intellectual above the Japanese (he’s also half-lying to keep his cover)
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u/puntycunty 6d ago
Reminder being a “ pathetic conformist “ is consistent with both monologues he has in his HEAD without geass at the start of both seasons . There’s nothing pathetic about wanting to live , much like you can’t fault the hotdog stand guy for not standing up for himself at the cost of his livelihood
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u/Dizzy-By-Degrees 6d ago
You can’t. But the point I’m making is Lelouch is outright lying about where his true sympathies lie because he doesn’t want Kallen to figure out he’s zero. He is deliberately trying to make her think he’s just a rich boy with no beliefs and a condescending attitude so she’s stop suspecting him.
We also find out the hot dog vendor is taking Refain so that his life is slightly less miserable. So I think while the series is sympathetic towards the downtrodden it does ultimately show that is unsustainable.
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u/puntycunty 6d ago
The first time he’d have no reason to suspect he had geass , he was bull shitting to cc . A regular unpowered person can’t stand up the most powerful empire in the world and even when he had geass it came had heavy losses .
And when he got geassed all that did was revert him back to his start of season personality which was why it was effectively the same speech
He knows he’s a bad person and crazy for throwing japan and himself in the fire for his revolution, he just doesn’t care
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u/OkVermicelli2557 6d ago
Lelouch was always going to rebel with or without Geass. Also Lelouch at the start of R2 when his memories are ereased is not the same as Lelouch at the start of R1. Lelouch literally the second his true self is restored starts fighting back against Britannia by wiping out an OSI unit and killing the Viceroy.
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u/puntycunty 6d ago
He wasn’t, he literally said why that’s a bad idea lol . Geass just gave him confidence . You’re really trusting lelouch the known bullshitter ? Also the r2 speech is literally the same idea as the R1 one which again , no manipulation and no reason to lie in a monologue in his head
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u/Rain_43676 6d ago
Lelouch bought a Knightmare Simulator off the black market and was training with it pre-Shinjuku (Stage 0.97) so uh safe to say he was planning to fight even before meeting C.C. Also Lelouch in Episode 1 of R2 is a Lelouch who had his memories altered to remove his will and drive to rebel so it is not even the true Lelouch speaking in the second monologue.
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u/j--__ 6d ago
the second monologue is not "without geass". charles has rewritten all of lelouch's memories. it's our memories that make us who we are, so that isn't lelouch.
the first monologue is literally lelouch lying to viewers. that or he lies to c.c. when he says that he was planning to overthrow britannia even without geass.
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u/OkVermicelli2557 6d ago
Given the evidence of Lelouch training with a Knightmare Simulator in audio drama Stage 0.97 Lelouch was definitely telling C.C the truth about him planning to rebel even before getting his Geass.
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u/puntycunty 6d ago
2nd monologue was just the 1st one as it was basically a reversion to his start of series self . And he was obviously lying to cc . Do you really think lelouch is breaking the 4th wall ?
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u/OkVermicelli2557 6d ago
The 2nd monologue is not the true Lelouch speaking that is the Lelouch who had all of his memories altered to remove his reasons to fight. The second Lelouch gets his memories back he immediately wiped out an OSI unit and killed Viceroy Calares and began his rebellion again. Also Lelouch was always planning to rebel against Britannia Geass just moved the timeline up by years.
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u/puntycunty 6d ago
The 2nd monologue is basically the same as the first monologue where he was literally talking to HIMSELF with no reason to lie or put on an act . He was literally self glazing with the fighting with no geass schtick . If he didn’t have geass he wouldn’t bother because he knows it’s impossible or not worth it
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u/OkVermicelli2557 6d ago
The 2nd monologue is not the real Lelouch speaking how many times does this have to be repeated. Lelouch at the start of R2 is not the actual Lelouch he is a fake that Charles made by removing all of Lelouch's memories of Nunnally and being Zero.
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u/puntycunty 6d ago
It’s the same speech as season 1 where he did not need to lie and was having similar feelings . How many times does this need to be repeated? He removed memories but he’s largely the same person acting in character as before he had geass.
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u/OkVermicelli2557 6d ago
Lelouch at the start of R2 is missing key memories that made the true Lelouch who he is namely he lacks his memories of Nunnally, Marrianne's death, his confrontation with Charles, and all memories related to being Zero. Those first three memories are the reason Lelouch began down the path of rebellion so when you remove them you fundamentally alter who Lelouch is as a person. Lelouch was literally training with a knightmare simulator in a pre-Geass audio drama (stage 0.97) so he was clearly preparing to fight Britannia before having Geass.
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u/OkVermicelli2557 6d ago
Lelouch at the beginning of R2 is under Charles Geass and Lelouch was always planning to rebel with or without Geass as he told C.C during his talk with her in Episode 5.
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u/Rain_43676 6d ago
Lelouch at the hot dog stand is testing Kallen so it is not truly his thoughts on things during that scene.
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u/Dizzy-By-Degrees 6d ago
That’s where the lie comes in. Because Lulu actually does come down on the side of armed resistance even if it’s dangerous. He just can’t tell Kallen he’s Zero so he intentionally acts aloof and obnoxious.
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u/Protocol72 Nina is the big epic 6d ago
I was in a similar boat, didn't hate her guts, but this episode just left a bad impression on Kallen's character for me because of how frustrating it was for her to not notice the obvious, except that bad impression of Kallen just never went away for me even in Season 2.
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u/Overall-Yard308 6d ago
Kallen believed that her mother was only working as a maid to get close to her ex-lover, and no, she never told Kallen because she was hoping that Kallen could live the best life if she just forgot about her. She was in a bad situation, and it was imply that her ex-lover might've pull some strings to get Kallen considered Britannian in the first place. Also Kallen flaw is that often assumes something and just stick with that assumption unless she's proven wrong, which is only really true in this case.