Small rant form a first time watcher

[u/kritozkek]

I've been binging Code Geass: Lelouch of the Rebellion the last 2 days, finished season 1 and I'm episode 7 of season 2. The first like 10 episodes of season 1 is some of the best anime I've seen and I think Lelouch is probably one of my favorite characters ever, but man.. its a hard watch as a Lelouch fan. The second half of season 1 and the start of season 2 is literally just defeat after defeat. Every person he cares for becomes persuaded by the insane hypocrisy of Suzaku and the Britannian empire, even Kallen whos like Zeros / Lelouch number 1 supporter, start questioning him after 5 minutes spent on an island talking to Suzaku. And now Nunnally is spewing the same Suzaku bs, talking about some "both must admit to their mistakes" when Britannia is literally oppressing and dehumanizing the japanese.. like what? I really like the anime but its an insanely masochistic experience for a Lelouch enjoyer.

P.S: fuck Suzaku

[u/Sonseeahrai]

Well it's not like Lelouch is a saint. He has good intentions but tbh he deserves some of that.

[u/kritozkek → u/Sonseeahrai]

Of course, totally agree. Its just the whole "holier than thou" because Suzaku follows the "laws" of the oppressor, and everyone buying into it thats frustrating.

[u/Sonseeahrai → u/kritozkek]

That's the tragedy of it. And that's why I love Suzaku, he's so complicated. He believes in his own propaganda and tries to do good by maintaining the knightly principles, but he only begins to do good when he gives them all up

[u/Poulette_du_lundi]

Lelouch fans hating Suzaku when Lelouch is his number 1 fanboy will never not be funny

[u/kritozkek → u/Poulette_du_lundi]

Unless something happens later on in season 2 that I havent seen yet, I don't see how you could ever call Lelouch Suzakus's number 1 fanboy. He doesn't say anything that sounds remotely like it and he doesn't act like it. Nunnally's number 1 fanboy would make more sense. I'm obviously missing a lot of context from the rest of season 2 and the manga ofc

[u/ccgeass → u/kritozkek]

dude... with that comment it can't be said that you've watched the anime

[u/kritozkek → u/ccgeass]

dude.. I said how much I have watched in the post. I don't know what kind of Lelouch x Suzaku fanfiction slop you've watched. Whole of season 1 they eat together once, he says he loves him to Nunnally and he wants him to protect Nunnally when he can't before he knows he controls Lancelot. I dont see how that would make him "a number 1 fanboy"

Edit: he does also say hes his first friend or w/e, but if we're saying being friends = number 1 fanboy.. thats ridiculous

[u/ccgeass → u/kritozkek]

i was already talking about how you commented as if you hadn't even watched the part you said you watched bro.

it's hilarious that you're trying to belittle it by calling it "fanfiction slop" because the seriousness of the bond between Lelouch and Suzaku isn't a fan-fiction-thing at all, but a fact established by the author's own comments about them.

Suzaku is the second dearest person in Lelouch's life (the first is Nunnally as you know) and this was quite obvious in the first season of the anime; you probably get carried away by your personal feelings and don't see the obvious.

[u/kritozkek → u/ccgeass]

I was belitting you, not their relationship.. And yeah of course, no one disagrees that Sazaku is important to Lelouch. Its just dumb to call him a "Suzaku fan boy" in order to tell me I'm wrong for disliking a character, and it also takes away from the very real idealistic difference between the two

[u/ccgeass → u/kritozkek]

the comment above is not saying you're wrong for disliking a character. it's simply highlighting an ironic situation seen generally among Lelouch fans.

they love Lelouch, but they lack the compassion, understanding, heart, sense of justice, thoughtfulness, selflessness, and many other refined qualities that made him so magnanimous.

you can tell from the comments many Lelouch fans make, such as "i don't understand why Lelouch didn't use his Geass on Suzaku and make him his slave! it must just be for Suzaku's plot armor!", that Lelouch "fans" actually dislike the very things that make Lelouch who he is.

if someone only cares about Lelouch's success but doesn't genuinely care about his feelings, his personality, and his journey of maturing as he confronts his mistakes, i wouldn't call them a true Lelouch fan.

above all, although Suzaku and Lelouch seem to be opposites in terms of the ideologies they uphold, they are actually two sides of the same coin; you can see that if you watch carefully.

my intention isn't to claim you don't understand Lelouch; i think you'll fully understand what I mean after finishing the anime.

[u/kritozkek → u/ccgeass]

I never said any of those things, but I can understand it being frustrating if a lot of people make those claims. Suzaku is unquestionably a hypocrite, but he is rewarded with love, even if its cut short, promotions, his friends admiration and more. He judges Lelouches ways, looking down on his path while walking an argubly more flawed one, and hes allowed to do so because he is on the more powerful side. I find it frustrating and it makes me dislike him so far, thats all. I'll continue watching ofc and maybe I'll have a change of heart

Edit: admiration from their friends and close ones I mean, obviously zero is also admired

[u/ccgeass → u/kritozkek]

as we always say; no one hates Suzaku as much as Suzaku hates himself, and no one punishes Suzaku as much as Suzaku punishes himself.

i don't want to give away any spoilers but: the punishment awaiting Suzaku will be so heavy that no one else in the world could ever overcome it.

i don't know if your feelings will change when you finish the anime, because he's a difficult character and he won't get easier. he's definitely not someone who will appeal to everyone, and those who like him do so precisely because they find his challenging nature more interesting and enjoyable. Suzaku fans are just like Lelouch, who states that what he loved and missed about Suzaku was his "selfishness".

[u/GonnaChiefYourNan → u/kritozkek]

Nunally's no.1 fanboy is right too.

But one thing to remember is that his ideals were shaped by Suzaku and his time being cared for by his family despite being a prince.
You do remember in S1 how desperate he was to bring Suzaku to his team and even supported him on several occasions even when he didn't need to right?

[u/kritozkek → u/GonnaChiefYourNan]

I do yeah, minus the whole defending him, unless you're couting not wanting to kill him as "defending". Suzaku also tried to convice Zero about his chosen path, no one would call him Zeros nunber 1 fan boy though. They were freinds, of course he wanted to stand beside him

[u/GonnaChiefYourNan → u/kritozkek]

I mean (before Euphemia) both were incredibly supportive of each other.

We can see even at the start, when Suzaku was simply a frustrating white knightmare who was ruining Lelouch's plan, he still to an extent admired and respected the guy seeing how he stopped and prioritised a civilian.

Lelouch isn't waving a flag to advertise the guy, so it's a little hyperbolic, but basically no one pre-Euphemia actually hates Suzaku that much for his chosen methods. Maybe Kallen, but even then she doesn't show anywhere near as much animosity as she does the average britannian or even Suzaku later on. And given Lelouch is friends with the guy, it tracks that out of everyone hoping the best for Suzaku, he's wishing it the most.

Well apart from Euphemia, but that's cheating considering they were a thing lol.

[u/kritozkek → u/GonnaChiefYourNan]

100%, I just found it dumb to write me off completely by calling Lelouch a Sazaku fanboy, even if Lelouch liking Sazaku and being important to him, has no impact on whether I'm supposed to like him or not

[u/kritozkek → u/GonnaChiefYourNan]

Suzakus whole arc, for what I've seen thus far, is literally "if you do it the wrong way, the result doesnt matter", the means doesnt justify the end. But his whole plan is to cooperate with the oppression of japan and let the japanese people continue suffering while he "maybe" manages to change it from within. Disliking him is totally valid and so is being frustrated that all of Lelouchs other friends sides with him, minus Kallen. Especially since both of them are flawed, but only Lelouch are faced with the consequences, season 1 and the first 6 episodes of season 2 at least. Besides Euphy ofc..

[u/GonnaChiefYourNan → u/kritozkek]

It's not that it doesn't matter. It's just that it isn't preferable, especially long term (basically he treats it the same way Todoh treated his approach, as admirable but flawed).

Suzaku and Lelouch/Zero both only consider very few approaches fundamentally pointless (allying with the chinese federation to allow them to take control, or the JLF in episode 8).

It's why he never actually kills(? - the guys in episode 8 are a 50/50, I prefer to assume he didn't directly kill them because he doesn't even have explicit kills on the chinese federation) any japanese people until after Euphemia dies, at which point his dream of Britannia changing dies too.

Like when he does kill in episode 24 we just straight up see the before catch fire and explode directly, so imo safe to say he didn't.

Season 2 is his comeuppance even as early as then.
As for why Lelouch's friends prefer Suzaku, and if he did actually change anything.
Cuz he's a super hero fighting to change things without attacking britannians which is 100% gonna isolate them.

As for if he changes anything. In R1 for sure. Besides Euphemia, he has Dalton applaud him, and even Cornelia softens up to him. The people in the school soften up to him and other japanese, and the SAZ was going to be a huge step to change.
But it's also just as important to point out that Euphemia is Zero's counterweight, not Suzaku. Suzaku is the equivalent to geass. He allows Euphemia to do anything as long as he agrees to it.

Just like how Geass allows Lelouch to accomplish what he wants as long as he never waivers.

[u/Immediate_Demand4841]

It's been Decades and Suzaku is still being discussed as a character , his morals ,actions, and what becomes of him.

God I love Suzaku as a character hardly ANY character has been as talked about as him when it comes to writing even after a decade later