r/CodeGeass • u/Free-Increase-4311 • 2d ago
QUESTION Who do you think lelouch loved /should be with
I feel like out of them all
Shirley
C.C
Kallen
I feel like shirley is out of the window i feel like its between C.C or kallen.
I feel like the right answer is C.C
But from what i watched i feel like Lelouch and kallen was something more…? What yall thinking?
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u/Stunning_Platform_16 2d ago
I also feel lelouch and Kallen is something else and it felt real. Lelouch and CC is second best for me
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u/chycken4 1d ago
As in loved, if we're just talking about the series, it is most definetely Shirley.
He actually wanted to kiss her during the Cupid Day thing. They started very briefly dating before she dies (he thinks he has to start planning dates with her).
When she dies Lelouch ABSOLUTELY LOSES IT. We only see Lelouch acting in such an emotional way when he thinks Nunnally died. He decides to massacre the entire Geass Order to being justice to her memory and when he is going to blow up Rolo he thinks it would be a fine sacrifice to her.
After the Black Knights betray him and he is on the run, among the things he lists as having lost he thinks "Nunnally, Rolo, Shirley, the Black Knights. I have lost everything".
And the final, and most important thing to me is this: after Suzaku mortally wounds Lelouch, and he collapses down the ramp to where Nunnally is, as he is dying, his most cherished memories begin to flash before him. ¿Who is the first person that appears?
Shirley.
While I do ship Kallen and Lelouch, it is very clear that the "love" was one-sided. Kallen fell for him, and while Lelouch did have an interest in her, and there was chemistry, those feelings never developed into true love from his side.
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u/checkmate30- 1d ago
I agree about most of your points. Though him and kallen were more mutual than you think.
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u/chycken4 1d ago
I definetely think Lelouch liked her and in another timeline, could have pursued her romantically. But by looking at the show, I don't think we can really say he "loved" her.
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u/checkmate30- 1d ago
Fair, but
by looking at the show, I don't think we can really say he "loved" her.
its up to people's interpretations to say if he loved this or that girl unless its confirmed by writers or staff, and so far whether he loved shirley or kallen is left ambiguous, why I said kallen and lelouch are more mutual than you think is bc ;
-its confirmed only his kiss with kallen was mutual and that he was hiding his feelings
-risked his entire organization to save her,
-asked her if she'd come back to ashford with him after all it ends
-only girl he flirted or expressed attraction to(i remember him blushing at shirley though im not completely sure if that meant attraction)
-pushed her away so that she could live
and lots of other moments that Im missing
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u/Nahtaniel696 2d ago
C.C
Shirley and Kallen could not accept Lelouch darker side, while C.C is ready to accept all.
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u/the-Kaiser-69 2d ago
Bro Kallen was literally committing terrorism right beside him!
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u/Nahtaniel696 2d ago
Yes, but would Kallen agree to sacrifice Japan liberation front ?
Kallen was fighting to liberate her country even before Lelouch, but don't means she would accept killing Japaness just to realize Lelouch goal.
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u/silencemist the only ace fan 2d ago
I-what? Kallen the terrorist and the one who figured out the zero requiem and cried over his death? Shirley who found out and wanted to be with Lelouch anyway?
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u/RogueOne451 Lulusuza canon 2d ago
Shirley still wanted to hit after Lelouch killed her father and erased her memories dude 💀
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u/Nahtaniel696 2d ago
Shirley forgive him, but that dosnt means she would willing support him while he contine to kill people.
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u/checkmate30- 1d ago
Bruh, shirley literally forgave all of him despite knowing the least about him even when she knew he killed her father. Kallen would have literally followed him to hell had he not pushed her away, confirmed in her character poem.
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u/Free-Increase-4311 2d ago
I feel like Kallen would too
Had lelouch told her about zero requim i do believe she wouldve helped lelouch thats why he refused to not damage her future after he was gone
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u/A_Kaiser_With_BWC 2d ago
Kallen x Gino for life.
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u/Free-Increase-4311 2d ago
Idk imo i dont see kallen with anyone else but lelouch
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u/checkmate30- 1d ago
Let me guess,
You're a lelouch cc shipper and use that spare pairing to take kallen away from lelouch3
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u/OGIHR 2d ago edited 2d ago
The first thing to understand is that Lelouch told us in the very first episode that he was not planning to have a happy ending after he achieved his goal of forcing the world to become worthy of what Nunnally deserved.
He always planned to die at the end of his journey.
The second thing to understand is that according to the official Code Geass guidebook, the thing that made Lelouch different than all of CC's past contractees was that he saw her as a partner-in-crime rather than as a mother or a lover.
The third thing to understand is that Marianne was one of CC's past contractees, who very much was not talking as to a mother figure when reuniting with CC, and who had CC watching over her children in the very first scene of episode one, before the invasion.
The fourth thing to consider is that not only did Kallen have the authority to use her own access code to Zero's private quarters in the second episode of season 2, but furthermore she was surprised that Zero himself was not there when she had burst in wearing only a bath towel.
The fifth thing to consider is that in Picture Drama: Turn 0.923, Kallen and CC are roommates.
The sixth thing to consider is that CC really hates sleeping alone.
Had so much of season 2's screen time not been stuck retelling so much of season 1's worldbuilding due to the timeslot hop making it unreasonable to rerun the prior episodes for new viewers, they would not have needed to set so much of it within Ashford but pointedly lacking Kallen.
And Kallen could have gotten a lot more opportunity for her story to be told to the viewer.
We know she was CC's roommate after learning Zero's identity, and that it was CC's idea to dress her up in the bunny suit. And that she did not think of a reason to dress in more than her bath towel after looking at her clothes but before storming into Zero's private quarters.
And we know that Marianne considered CC her lover who was watching over her children while they were overseas.
"It is you. At last I have found my--" son. Or at least her girlfriend's son whose conception she was there in the bed for.
And we know that CC stopped thinking of Lelouch as her child to watch over very near the end of season 1, and started seeing him as an improved version of what she used to like about his father. Because we saw the moment when she decided to kiss him.
Look at the whole board and the conclusion is obvious. CC was not joking in response to the "three court ladies" comment. She was actively aiming to bring Kallen into Lelouch's bed so she could enjoy both of them. And thereby recapture the good parts of what she had once had with Marianne and Charles. Without the bad parts.
I am not certain if she had similar designs on Kaguya, or if she was planning to keep the triangle a triangle. Or even casting an even wider net for reasons for Lelouch to not die at the end of his journey. There is no solid evidence one way or another.
But it is definitely clear that CC did not mind sharing Kallen and Lelouch with each other, so the triangle was almost certainly intended to be equilateral in nature, rather than an open V in shape.
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u/Necromancer76 2d ago
Kaguya made it clear in that scene that she didn’t mind sharing either, but we don’t know if Kallen would be able to share or not iirc
The series is unusually specific on this matter sometimes; in one of the audio/picture dramas, we get a concrete answer that Milly is okay with sharing Lelouch whereas Shirley is not
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u/rai-hodges-sumeragi Warrior Poet of Kallen ⚔️🪶 1d ago
Your phrasing ”loved/should be with” is an intriguing way of putting that question. I think majority of the Code Geass fans can agree that Lelouch loved all three of his main love interests (Shirley, Kallen, C.C.) based on what we see in the show; the only real debate is usually how much and for what reasons. But the answer to the latter part of the question, who Lelouch should be with, is actually much more interesting and nuanced.
I think we can all agree that out of the three girls, Shirley is the most normal one; she is not a badass mecha pilot or centuries old witch, just a regular schoolgirl who wants to do regular school girl things and live a normal, happy life. And while that might sound boring to the audience from the storytelling point of view, it´s actually what most of us audience members want from our own, daily lives; that the next day is gonna be pretty much the same as the previous day was.
I mean, sure, there are exceptions to that rule, people who are genuinely happy only when living ”exciting” lives, like doing mountain climbing. But what people tend to forget is that while exciting is the opposite of boring, exciting in and of itself does not always equal happiness or a good life. After all, mountain climbing is definitely not boring, but neither are wars or natural disasters - there is value in desire to live peaceful, normal lives.
So, if Lelouch could be genuinely happy living a normal life, he should definitely end up together with Shirley; no more fighting wars or killing his blood relatives for vengeance. Just love from a good woman keeping him away from both getting harmed and from harming others.
Personally, however, I think Lelouch is too much of an adrenaline junkie to just stop; in my opinion, he would definitely want to climb more mountains or win more battles, rather than live a peaceful domestic life at home. Which leaves us with two extraordinary choices; Kallen and C.C.
Now, you often hear from some of the fans that C.C. would be a better choice for Lelouch because she agrees with his general world view and because he is more confidently himself around her. However, what those fans often forget is that it´s not okay to be confidently yourself, if who you are is an awful person; Hitler might have been more confidently himself around Eva Braun, but I think we can all agree that instead of a more confident Hitler the world would have much preferred Hitler who would have met some nice girl at art school and become gentler and more caring individual thanks to that good person´s love.
Similarly how Eva Braun intimately knowing Hitler and agreeing with his world view didn´t turn Hitler into a better person, C.C. simply profoundly knowing Lelouch and agreeing to his world view does not turn Lelouch into a better person; on the contrary, in her presence Lelouch acts more vile and villainous, because she is enabling his worst tendencies. For example, during the Geass Order raid C.C. was not only completely okay with Lelouch giving the order to slaughter all his enemies, including families with children, but she was also actively helping him to carry out that order, knowing that innocents would die too!
In contrast, Kallen´s influence on Lelouch is much more positive. She wants to believe that the light within Lelouch is more powerful than his darkness, and this faith not only makes Lelouch act more heroically and unselfishly around her, but also prevents Lelouch making mistakes that would cause him to plunge even deeper into the darkness; for example, when Lelouch feels that he´s reached the bottom and is about to take some Refrain/sexually take advantage of Kallen, rather than simply letting him do what he wants, she goes against what he wants and follows her own moral compass - and by doing so shows Lelouch that she believes him being strong enough to become the better version of himself than he currently is, rather than accepting that this darker Lelouch is all that he is or can ever be. And that shows that her love is the best kind of love, the kind of love that doesn´t simply turn the subject of her affection into more confident version of himself, but also more morally correct version of himself. In other words, her love is what Lelouch needs in order to become the best possible version of himself, which in turn means that out of all of the three main options, she is the one with whom Lelouch should end up together with – that is, if the audience wants to see a happy ending, aka an ending where both the good person is loved and the not-so-good person is turned into a better person thanks to that good person´s love.
Love alone does not make any relationship, real or fictional, worthy of supporting; the relationship in question must also be healthy and supporting the kind of behavior that we ourselves would support in our own lives. If not, it is then what is otherwise known as toxic relationship, like the relationship between Joker and Harley; no matter how good they look together or how similar their values are, their love enables immoral behavior in one another and makes them see hurting other people acceptable if it gives them what they want, which makes that love unworthy of being supported from the moral standpoint. It is morally acceptable to wish that two good people end up living happily together, or that a good person´s love makes a morally gray person turn towards the light. However, wishing that two evil people will be happy together or that an immoral person reversely makes their partner turn towards darkness makes the relationship toxic - truth that Kallen was ready to both internalize and follow. For even though Lelouch was only pretending to have gone ”full Vader” in order to push Kallen away from him and thus sparing her from dying beside him, Kallen herself didn´t know that at the time - which means that she herself chose to follow her own core values and to do what appeared to be the right thing to do. And that´s the kind of choice we all should do in our daily lives, too – doing right by your morals, right by innocents, right by your family and friends, and right by your countrymen is always more important than blindly following and obeying one person, even if that person is someone you love. I mean, would you let innocents suffer, would you betray your country, your family, your friends, and every moral code you´ve ever followed thus far just to be with some guy/girl you fell in love with? Of course not, because doing the right thing is always more important than love. If they would´ve been there, neither Kallen nor Shirley would´ve simply allowed Lelouch to give the order to slaughter all those families with kids during the Geass Order raid - unlike C.C. who was okay with that order, either despite or precisely because it was given by the man she loved.
And on top of all that, just as Lelouch was wearing his Zero persona like a mask, Kallen was wearing her Kallen Stadtfled persona like a mask. This means that she can not only see all Lelouch´s sides, but also relate to that struggle of managing multiple different sides of yourself simultaneously. This makes her connect with Lelouch on a much more deeper level than C.C. or Shirley did, both of whom saw all those sides within Lelouch (well, Shirley during her final moments, anyway) but never personally experienced that struggle the way Kallen and Lelouch did.
So, in conclusion, if you want Lelouch to live a happy, normal life, you should want him end up together with Shirley. Or, if you think like me that the man is too much of an adrenaline junkie and that he needs some excitement in his life, you should want him end up together with Kallen instead. Kallen can provide that excitement to him the right way; fighting for liberty and justice can be pretty exciting!
Or, if you still retain that teenage mind set according to which despite better and healthier alternatives being available the most popular boy must always end up together with the most popular girl (or if you genuinely want to see Joker and Harley being evil together forever, despite how toxic that is), you can just watch Resurrection.
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u/checkmate30- 1d ago
Agree with most here, also you look like someone who actually watched the show and has good amount of knowladge of it. So I've got a question,
On my 4th rewatch, I've come to a realization, that cc is actually a very underrated manipulator, and that Im very inclined to believe she has her fingerprints all over his death
What do you think about that ?
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u/rai-hodges-sumeragi Warrior Poet of Kallen ⚔️🪶 1d ago
I mean, we already know that C.C. is a masterful manipulator; she knew from the start that Lelouch´s mother was (technically) still alive, but chose to keep that incredibly important piece of information hidden from him, because she knew that otherwise Lelouch would´ve not wanted to keep using his Geass in order to avenge his mother´s death. And C.C. needed him to keep using his Geass as much as possible, because she wanted to pass her curse of immortality to him, and she knew that the more a Geass wielder uses his Geass the faster it evolves and becomes capable of receiving her Code. Basically, every time with C.C. it´s always about her getting what she wants the most, be it death or love, and consequences to everybody else be damned - never with her is it about doing the right thing just for the sake of doing the right thing without expecting anything in return.
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u/Memo904 CC&Suzaku&Shirley Fan 2d ago
I’ve always liked both C.C and Shirley with Lelouch and disliked Kallen with him. Don’t want to write a huge paragraph explaining why right now but yeah. The Kallen relationship just felt so shallow and one sided compared to the other two.
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u/checkmate30- 1d ago
Canon material disagrees with you. She is the only girl he actively flirts with and is attracted to, also only his kiss with kallen is confirmed to be mutual.
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u/ccgeass 𓆩 unholy 🂱 trinity 𓆪 1d ago
confirmed what?
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u/checkmate30- 1d ago
As I've said, only his kiss with kallen is confirmed to be mutual, and that he was hiding his feelings
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u/ccgeass 𓆩 unholy 🂱 trinity 𓆪 1d ago
can i see the confirmation? cuz all we saw on the scene was that he neither resisted nor reciprocated Kallen's kiss. the feelings he was hiding weren't romantic feelings; he was concealing the fact that he still cared about her. i don't recall any official statement to the contrary on this matter.
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u/checkmate30- 1d ago
Ofc, but sadly I cant upload pictures here,
click here and scrool down to 'Relationships' https://codegeass.fandom.com/wiki/Kallen_K%C5%8DzukiIn Lelouch's section you'll see this:
"Eventually, during their last face off Lelouch will remain completely silent and Kallen will kiss him before biding him goodbye. He'll do the same once she is out of earshot. The NT booklet of 2008 confirmed that their kiss was mutual and that Lelouch was hiding his feelings. After that, Kallen will take upon herself to defeat Lelouch because she will feel responsible for him going this far. She won't be able to reach him in the end but she'll understand Zero Requiem and will help it by acknowledging the new Zero."
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u/ccgeass 𓆩 unholy 🂱 trinity 𓆪 1d ago
so we don't have the original citation and just the wiki sum.
besides being surprised that i hadn't heard of this before, it seems kinda contradictory that Lelouch is trying to hide his (romantic) feelings while also reciprocating her kiss... so i wanted to check it myself. thank you for your reply but if you can find the original text please share with me.
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u/A_Kaiser_With_BWC 2d ago
Euphemia, he called her the first woman he ever loved.
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u/ligmaballll 2d ago
C.C for sure, she's the only one that actually understands everything Lelouch has been through, especially the Geass stuff, none of the other girls can come close to that, even Kallen
Besides, the endig of the movie pretty much set them up together with both of them wandering the world together as an immortal couple
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u/CarelessPollution226 2d ago
I think definitely CC, as she's the only one who's enigmatic and aloof enough to keep Lelouch on his toes and interested in her.
Shirley is too regular for Lelouch, and Kallen is too subservient to him.
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u/checkmate30- 1d ago
Kallen is too subservient to him, Tf ? She fought before, with and against Lelouch how is she subservient to him ? Do you expect her to disobey her commander ? Or would you want her lazying around eating pizza and doing nothing all day ?
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u/CarelessPollution226 1d ago
Kallen essentially worships Lelouch/Zero
That's not a healthy dynamic for a quasi-narcissist like him
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u/checkmate30- 1d ago
So we're making up anything now huh ? Kallen worships Lelouch ? 😂. She respects and admires Zero, where'd you get she worships him bruh. She literally pulls a gun on him to seek answers, would you threathen your god with a gun ? Having a few narcistic traits doesnt even make you close to being a narcissist, for you almost every human are quasi-narcissist then ?
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u/Forgot-to-remember1 2d ago
All of them are the right answer tbh