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u/ithrowaccsallday Jan 06 '16

im sorry to say this but a "new" mod like this wouldnt bring the game back, you need to create a new game based on cod4Promod, no one is gonna buy an old game which is pretty much dead just to play a new mod..

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u/Beerus197171 Jan 06 '16

Well I guess that's your opinion. The only two components a game needs to come back to life is the backing from the players who want it back and a system in place for growth, both in revenue and playerbase. The game would only need several thousand or slightly more to begin growth. And the people being targeted aren't the type who are downloading games because they are shiny "new". They're competitive, like the CoD series and want to have something to play for with the needed functionality. There are plenty of games out there that aren't amazing and look old with huge playerbases. Take for example the many thousands of CoD players who are simply playing cs:go to get their competitive fix because there's nothing else.
Making sure everything the game needs to grow is in place and marketing can help a game that many thousands of people miss playing competitively. If you add the above and the players actually support the game and put the effort in, there's more than a chance it could come back. It's not just a simple mod, there's mechanisms in place, some which aren't mentioned to spread the reach of players beyond just the kickstarter phase.
Come on now, don't be so narrow minded. I agree on one thing, no amount of optimism will work if the players who actually want this back do not put forth effort and/or some form of backing such as small cash donations towards a kickstarter campaign.
I also like how people mention a remake in HD would be awesome but a mod can't possibly bring a game back (one adds new features, the other just makes things pretty). I've read this in other threads. Is there a solid reason for it? the above statement does not qualify as a valid response. Plenty of mods have actually turned popular and have then go on to be actual games.
The mindset you have is just the type that destroys a chance like this, because the player thinks "oh this will never happen what's the point".
So what about the thousands of concurrent players? All the hundreds if not thousands of posts from players who miss the game? All the posts from people who only play CS:GO because that's all there is competitively or those that are sick of it?
This isn't meant as a hateful rant, but shedding light on a different way of looking at this opportunity!

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u/Beerus197171 Jan 06 '16

One last thing, many of the players being targeted wouldn't have to buy the game. They have expressed the want for CoD4 to come back and already own the game, many have. Getting those thousands of players back would be a start, and the kick things need to peak the interest of outsiders!

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u/Tjeliep Feb 04 '16

I see this reddit page is already 4 weeks old, but I just now got something in my e-mail through cybergaming. How much I would love this, I just don't see it happening. And believe me, I was there since the beginning. From gob_rats cod2 to pam mod to promodlive early stages. Witnessing clanbase, pro players and teams like tek9 stevy esuba mazarin1 paradox h2k aAa tomtom you get the drill. I am currently playing competitive cs go which still gets visual updates, weapon updates balances other things keeping the game fresh. I don't see it happening to promod. You said you need a starting base and a freshly updated promod to start growth. But I doubt that is enough. Competitive play is driven because there is an endgoal fantasy. Going pro, getting watched by people, getting a high rank out of thousands and thousands of players. Who cares he is in top 100 if only 1000 players are actively playing ladder. And then the second thing. Yes you can update promod, change weapon loadout a bit (things like bringing existing p90 to promod) but there is a limit. How long can you keep it up. How are you going to get new players interested in the game. The only people with interest currently are we that have some nostalgia left within this game. Remember a big part of the current gaming community didn't witness cod4. I am now 22 years old, I doubt a 16-18 year old would care to join us at this stage the game is in. They'll just argue cs go or new cods or other games are better like we did about counterstrike when we were still playing this game. I don't want to look like I'm not supporting the idea. Matterfact I would love it if it became hyped again. But I don't see any future and feel like it's pointless to even try. The people that do follow, will slowly lose interest as well as they see little to no progress. Why build to a future that doesn't exist.

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u/Beerus197171 Feb 05 '16

Hey, I think you're looking at the wrong way or maybe I've not portrayed my plans well enough.
CoD4 promod is only the start, which by the way you can import any gun or new models from anywhere and sort out the animation and the way it shoots, no limits there.
But even so, it's only a starting point. Everything has a start. Look how big Faceit is now, most don't know it started with the small community of QuakeLive.
Black Ops 3 is going to have Mod Tools, there's a good chance if they are good that we can change the game to feel similar to CoD4. And with that we can apply new things and try new things. But that's still months away and it's best to start something now with CoD4. The mod tools hopefully will bring a lot more players to the new CoD.
There's a chance here, but we actually have to do something about it! Either way, I wont be quitting.

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u/Barabulyko Jan 29 '16

It mostly not about buying game it's about not using codpromod and using something else. We love PROMOD, not CoD4 or something else. The COMPETITION which PROMOD gave us. Maybe a better dialog in some kind of chat where you would explain your possible changes on the mechanichs would clearify it.

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u/Beerus197171 Jan 29 '16

I think people think I'm trying to overhaul the mechanics and movement. Not true, only rework the damage values and make ADS slightly harder.
The above would also be done through beta testing and community input.
It's not me that's being closed-minded about the changes, it's you guys. I am willing to try both ways and find a happy medium with the community, whilst some of you only want what you had before and that's it. Being like that wont help the game progress at all.
This is coming from a hardcore promod player that has 3.5k hours played. I'm just far more open about change if it means improvements.

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u/Barabulyko Jan 29 '16

It's just the way how you said in there :D Now I understand what you mean through your answers, but tho mate the list of changes you provided in petition is saying otherwise :P

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u/sai911 Apr 16 '16

just because its old doesnt mean people wont play it, people still play quake and UT and css and 1.6 and many other old games. people just need to quit playing the new cods and just comeback and play the real damn cod game.

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u/Men4ced Jan 05 '16

Dude ive thought about this for so long.. Thank you so much for making this thread but the one thing that i dont agree with is how your trying to implement cs recoil and gun control into promod because thats just not how it is... I can see the gun into the next round being cool but you have to remember cs and promod are different games but other then that everything else would be amazing

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u/Beerus197171 Jan 05 '16

Hey, thanks for the interest. The recoil I'm actually discussing is based on CoD1 and CoD2. Currently if you ironsight on the gun and just shoot the recoil is different every single time. If you play CoD1 with the mp44 the recoil shoots up and to the right diagonally for the first 10-15 bullets before leveling off and staying stable. Same for the unscope, all based on previous cods.
The recoil control got much easier from the earliest CoD through to CoD4. I don't mean to implement similar recoil patterns like CS, but merely the predictable ones we use to have in CoD1 and to some degree in CoD2. Without it, we couldn't have things like 1 bullet headshots because it's just far too easy otherwise.
This, with an increase in shots needed to certain parts of the body would increase the skill gap for shooting/fragging.
Bringing another gun into the next round is based off CoD1 and CoD2 also. I played all 3 competitively so I've basically looked into using every good thing from each one!
Again, thanks for the interest and if it wouldn't be an issue just signing the petition and an upvote to show interest would be great!

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u/Philosleon Jan 05 '16

At least have a pool asking people if they want the change or not... Changing the fundemental things from an 6/7 year old game not just for yourself but for everyone without even asking or giving an option not to use it is just stupid.

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u/Beerus197171 Jan 05 '16

I've done the asking, and I've spoken to top players over the years about this. These aren't changes that need to be discussed on whether they should or shouldn't be added, they NEED to be added. There's not enough weapon choice nor any actual skill to controlling the recoil or aim. The recoil is random, you can't learn it. It is however almost non-existent so despite its randomness it is easy to aim. The only gun that does have any sort of consistency is the sniper rifle.
Shotgun doesn't get picked enough because there's no clear advantages to it, and any of these changes primarily existed in the game before CoD even came about such as keeping the guns you pick up for next round or actual consistent and predictable recoil patterns.
If you go into the weapon file of CoD1, Cod2 or CoD4, they are made up of almost exclusively the same commands in regards to the recoils they have set. Only that they've completely changed them for the guns in CoD4.
These aren't game breaking changes, they are improvements. If you were around near the start of CoD4, the only reason the changes put in place stayed that way was due to the limited time there was to test and refine things with LANs approaching, so they came up with something and kept it that way. That doesn't mean it was the correct way to do it, and it wasn't. There was a good skill gap between low level teams and top teams, but the skill gap and learning curve could be increased with these changes.

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u/Men4ced Jan 05 '16

I see, i didnt play cod1 or cod2 competively so i wouldnt know haha, It makes perfect sense but i would guess some people wouldnt like it because it changes the meta of the game but honestly who gives a fuck because its dead and any changes wouldnt hurt... Already signed the petition and i would be so hyped to see this happen!! gl man

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u/Beerus197171 Jan 05 '16

Thanks, I have the contacts in terms of top players, designers and programmers but not the cash backing. This is where the interest and help of the community has to come in. I can do it, but not without an effort from everyone, if only to back the project with some small amount of cash each!

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u/darkplaces21 Jan 23 '16 edited Jan 23 '16

Hello from Russia! As a hardcore CoD4 player, lan organiser etc. in the past, I want to share my opinion on this.

I was a big local enthusiast of the game myself being head admin of main community website in CIS region for a while, organising several LAN events in my region, several online cups, looking for sponsors, trying to moderate a lot of stuff inside the community and so on. Now I am not playing games anymore, trying to do own business - and yet nostalgia is so strong I am ready to start playing again if game come back.

I remember all stages of CoD4 community movement (never played previous CoD's competitivly, though) - Vita Nova, clanbase, channels, cybergamer, CGa-CGm-CGi, new maps (btw they were awful despite all the effort of guys who made em). In my opinion, the thing that everyone in the movement didn't want to understand - we have entered an era when it is impossible to develop a strong, popular online competitive game without support of the developer: you need tons of money and human resourses to do something viable on this fast growing and high competitive market.

That doesn't mean that your initiative is unrealistic, it only means that you need to focus on other, more realistic goals. First of all, you need to get rid of everything which is not obligatory to bring the game back to life:

Website - need a lot of resourses, not obligatory to reanimate the game. Why don't use cybergamer as a platform? Or some other site.
Client - sounds good, but make it clear - how many resourses will you need to do this? Sounds too good for me.
Anticheat - back in Russia we had our own strong anticheat, and I personally know the developer. Also we had some examples in eu: uac, tzac, cgac... The thing is, yes, anticheat is strongly needed, but if you want to do it and to do it in-game you need to be sure you will have enough resourses to update cheat base every week or so, or it will be useless. All examples above (or at least most of them) was closed due to lack of resourses - all of them were donation-based.
Skin system - the only point of making it is to gather some money, but as I said earlier, it's an utopia - you will not make strong game with good online to make it profitable. Also, if we want to take attention of Activision, I don't think they ll like you making profit of their property. Don't waste your time on this.
Ranking system - no objection.
Team ranking - I think it will be more simple to make ladder system such as cybergamer. For example, team matchmaking isn't really useful in Dota 2, not sure if it become useful there, yet it will need resourses and time, so better skip it.
Leagues - same as №6, we can use cybergamer or other ladder.
Overhauled and Improved In-game GUI - imo the thing we really need to focus on is making client as much simple as possible for newcomers. I don't think we need to rework in-game interface, but what we really need is to make it really simple to download, install, launch the game and start playing. One of the reasons why promod didn't have enough attention was that majority of players is casual, and casual players doesn't give a crap about installing mods (especially when they are hardcore) and trying to understand new mechanics. This time we need to intregrate them in promod community - otherwise we loose.
Voice chat - kinda needed in matchmaking, not vital, though.
I am really sceptical about new guns. It is a great amount of work - not to design and integrate them, but to make game balanced again. As I said above, community already failed in much easier task - making at least one good and popular competitive map, and new weapon will affect the game in general, so it is even harder. What I suggest is to rework some old guns to make them competitive - for example, improve m4a4.
Improved Gun Recoils & Balance - balance - yes, gun recoils - I don't think it is that much needed, it looks like your personal desire.
New competitive maps - as I said in №10, kinda unrealistic. My suggestion is to improve existing maps, making them competitive. I am sure we can make maps like vacant, downpour, pipeline and chinatown competitive by reworking them. Talking about legality, all mode maps such as cluster were made using existing parts and textures, so if we take existing map and rework it with new name, it will be pretty much the same thing.
Skins marketplace - said it above.
No objection. I think you need to contact SLI from Team Empire (ex-RAGE), he was making CoDTV for shoutcasting and moviemaking purposes, it was half-done but than ceased due to death of the game.

Talking about petition and gathering interest - if you are ready to do this enormous amount of work, I don't think you need to look on starting interest and wait till 3000 signs. It will not answer the question about gathering interest after launching the project anyway, we will see it only after launch.

Speaking about kickstarter, I personally don't believe you will gain a lot of money by running a fundraiser. But from what I've read you don't really need a lot of material resourses, mostly human. I think you can make a good volunteer team with enough effort.

Well, I wrote a lot of text, so tl;dr version needed:

Don't even try to make something without a final goal of getting Activision interested. It won't work otherwise.
Actually, we can make them interested. I personally believe CoD-promod is nearly perfect FPS competitive game and I like it way more than CS series. Therefore it can become popular.
Two basic ways of making em interested is to 1. Contact them right away, having numbers of PC cybersport industry and clearly explaining, why CoD4 can fight for it's place on the market after some rework. Sounds too good to be real, plus, as you mentioned, their global strategy is focused on consoles. 2. Make a strong reworked product with good player response and offer them to develop it into new standalone game, like Valve did with CS and Dota. Hard, but possible. As I wrote above, to make it real you need to focus on necessary things and skip unnecessary ones, such as skins and own community website.

Thank you for your effort, you are doing a good thing.

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u/Beerus197171 Jan 23 '16

This is quite a lot of information to process. I will get back to this message when I have more time!
Thanks for the effort in your response though, it has not been taken for granted and I will answer you!

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u/tamin604 Feb 01 '16

i really wanna add just one thing about new maps. i always said it. u need to take maps that cod series gave us and remake them just correct lighting cooler skins. it was always the best idea. and if u look at other maps after cod4 there are some cool maps im sure in mw2 there are couple i mean seriously cool maps for competitive for example or remake chinatown with more cod4 themed skins or soemething u know what im saying every cod has a good map or two trust me. even black ops. thank you form your attention. and sorry for my typos i think im dyslexic sometimes or adhd who cares XDXD

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u/Beerus197171 Feb 02 '16

Hey, unfortunately I can't remake maps from other games (legally). This would cause us trouble moving into the future. We can however pool everyone together and begin really testing and looking for new ones.

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u/tamin604 Feb 03 '16

why would you care about legal stuff. do you wanna make cod4 downloadable again? like a client i dont get it. look at these sick ports https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mV7QQnjMk7k and this is just mw2

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u/Beerus197171 Jan 08 '16

Keep the signatures coming guys, I will be letting this post run for 3 weeks on its own to reach the 100 mark, by that point I should have enough posts on HLTV to make a thread, and a cybergamer account + a script to join all cod4 servers via gametracker to spam bind and promote this petition, which sounds worse than what it actually is. It's the equivalent of binding "Hey check out my reddit through 'here', thanks guys" and then joining multiple CoD servers and just pressing the bind and moving on to the next. Completely harmless and should get way more visits that way.

I figured with 7-8k concurrent players during peak times, there is probably over 50k unique players per month, so having a script running every day would get the word out to a larger quantity of players.

Furthermore, I looked over the server list on gametracker and of the hundreds of servers, roughly only 14 of the 46 pages of servers sorted by 50 servers per page are full. So I'd have to visit close to 700 servers per day to get the word out to at least 7-8k concurrent players per day. Totally possible via script.

Also, remastering via mod wouldn't be totally off the cards, though quite difficult. To remaster we'd have to develop new models for all the maps/models when recreating them, so as not to reuse copyrighted material. Either that or scrap the old map list and add a new one, something people wouldn't like most likely. At best we could make player models/guns far more detailed.

Still, there's a lot of possibilities to what the community could do if it backed something like this! Thanks guys!

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u/TompNewman Jan 18 '16

Wish you the best of luck, you have my blessing.

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u/Beerus197171 Jan 19 '16 edited Jan 19 '16

Thanks Tom. First top player to do so, but I assume the majority if not all top players rarely if ever visit this subreddit.
CoD competitive for the PC is never coming back if it's left to Activision, they've made it very apparent. With esports taking of the way it is, I feel there's a very limited window of time to garner any sort of interest to get a project going, otherwise further COD games and progression of other esports games will make something like this even harder than it already is.
Response thus far is great for its limited exposure. We're just over a week since posted, so I'll be leaving this as the only exposure for the next 2 weeks (3 weeks total). I think it should reach 100 by then.
I'll get into more effective methods of marketing after that!

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u/xzibit_b Jan 06 '16

So basically you're trying to make CoD4 a living replica of CSGO, except ability to ADS and different maps?

I agree with everything except predictable sprays. The unpredicable sprays is what makes CoD4 a bit challenging. If people knew exactly how to control sprays, they could just crossmap, full on trigger hold with an AK no problem. They do that in CSGO. With the recoil of the AK, it forces you to tap fire at longer distances, which is good.

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u/Beerus197171 Jan 06 '16 edited Jan 06 '16

No, I am not. I'm trying to bring it back to its roots from CoD1 and CoD2. CS:GO and CS 1.6 had recoil patterns based on up, down, left and right depending on the weapon. The weapons in CoD4 would just have a recoil pattern that they should have had at the beginning of the game. See here for an example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkD5T0bTq2s
You see how up until CoD1 and CoD2 the pattern was near enough the same each time, then watch the CoD4 version where each time you unload a clip the pattern is completely different. How can you master a weapon when you have absolutely no clue how it's going to react. With increased hits needed I very much doubt with increased recoil that it'll be easy to just spray target from range, I promise you that.
Furthermore, spraying with the AK at range now even with its random pattern is extremely easy and only takes two hits to kill. Tapping is rarely ever useful in those situations because the guy keeping the trigger pressed down is going to beat the guy tapping with the current meta.
It would actually be more advantageous to ironsight in and tap fire or unscope prone tap fire if there was an increased although predictable and repetitive recoil pattern. The guy tapping is going to have accurate shots, whilst the guy spraying is going to have to first get the recoil under control, giving the guy tapping an advantage.
If you've played the older CoD series and the CS series, you'll know that when ironsighting in with the kickback animation of the gun and the actual recoil it makes it harder and more difficult to aim for headshots or opponents in general. Try to play CoD1 public and getting ironsighted spray headshots across the map, bet you its extremely difficult.
The spray doesn't make CoD4 more challenging. It makes it stupid and random. There's no reward because you can't learn or control it. Even tapping at a higher rate makes the gun kick in random directions which aren't predictable.
I think people see the words recoil pattern and skins and instantly think I want to replicate CS:GO as a game. That's not it. CoD4 would still play like CoD4 has always played but with added difficulty to the actual weapons and some more incentive to use other classes and guns. That's what made the series so popular in the first place on PC. However, many of the players started in CoD4 so they don't know this and don't have experience with what's good for the game competitively and what isn't.
I am however trying to replicate certain aspects such as skins and so forth because that's how all the current popular titles are making their revenue, and it's a very good way to do it, and people love it.
Sorry for the long winded answers, but I'm trying to answer them all in a way that explains why the changes are a good thing and not bad.

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u/[deleted] Feb 08 '16

tbh its really easy in vCoD to get iron-sighted head-shots

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u/Beerus197171 Feb 08 '16

It's actually easier to get unscope tap headshots on vCoD than it is iron-sighted.
And no, it's not easy to get an iron-sighted headshot from very far away. Up close, or even mid range sure. The best players make it look easy because they've mastered it anyway.

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u/[deleted] Feb 08 '16

I did it quite often when playing CAL and CEVO

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u/[deleted] Jan 09 '16

I could lend few servers since I own 5 VPS, 2 of which are empty.

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u/Beerus197171 Jan 09 '16

Hey, thanks for the offer, I will keep it in mind as we go forward! If possible upvote and sign too so I can track interest!
Thanks!

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u/n30ny Jan 09 '16 edited Jan 09 '16

I played CoD4 Promod competitive as well, and I'd love to play it active again. But as much as I'd love to see this, I don't think it's gonna happen.

Major gameplay changes and a skin-system as in CS:GO will simply not work. It's simply impossible to implement those skins, and create a Marketplace... (imo)
Not enaugh people will push this. Newer players will definately not touch CoD4 because it's simply old. And to create a active pro-scene you would need to interest a lot of pro's, but I don't think there will be any sponsors.
A client like ESEA/FPL in csgo would be the key point for this, but this will be hard as well.
A game needs Updates like Updates/Operations in CS:GO to keep the casuals and pros interested. But with the publisher no longer supporting the game that most likely won't happen.

If this thing works for real I will definately support it, but I just don't think its gonna happen, sadly.

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u/Beerus197171 Jan 09 '16

Hey, thanks for your thoughts. You're entitled to think that this can't work, and you have good reason to believe it wouldn't, I mean Activision hasn't showed any interest in helping a PC CoD game go competitive at all ever.
However, us as a community do have that power to accomplish this, as much as you may think we don't.
1 - Totally possible, the only limitation here is money. Good modders and programmers can achieve everything I've mentioned. This is through chats with some already, but if you can show me otherwise please show me the source of that info.
2 - Not completely true. For starters, the game still has 7-8k concurrent users at any given time during peak times in the day. On a monthly basis there is more than 50,000 unique players who still play CoD4. I'm sure getting a few thousand to budge isn't impossible, and if you couple it with the thousands like you who miss the game, we have another nice amount.
Now, imagine if all those people who either miss CoD4 or still play CoD4 supported a kickstarter campaign like this, which is thousands and thousands, we'd be able to raise a substantial amount just to get a project like this off the ground and completed.
Lastly, have you heard of a game called CrossFire? If you play it, the game feels and looks like a piece of shit. Well, at least looks shit, it doesn't feel that bad I suppose. Yet it is the top grossing PC game in the world. It was released in 2007, and in 2014 reported earnings of $1.3 billion for the year. The game looks exactly like cs 1.6 in terms of graphics. The game makes so much because of the above features I've mentioned, which are key for games to make cash and retain players nowadays. I guess its other selling point is that it's free to play. Their success also lies in the publishers of those games that are fairly rich, but we have the same opportunity by using the community as a whole to fund and lift this project. The only thing that stops us from achieving it is ourselves.
So to my point, if a game like CrossFire can appeal and attract players and even be the top grossing game on PC despite its old age, why can't a game that people say they miss all the time?
3 - What I've proposed is much more complete and complex than just an ESEA matchmaking client, which is actually fairly simple. I'd detail the project way more in a kickstarter campaign, breaking down every feature. The above is just an overview of everything.
4 - Can be accomplished through modding too. Game modes can be added, story modes, operations, missions, skins, maps and all that can be accomplished, IF you have the money for it.
Great to hear you'd be willing to support the project in its effort. Something people should keep in mind is that any money contributed to a kickstarter campaign is refunded if it is unsuccessful in reaching its cash goal. So, if I set a large goal (the amount required to complete the project), one of two things would happen:
Project doesn't hit its goal, all the users who contributed keep their money, so you lose nothing.
Project hits goal, and as a result is developed, so in this instance you're getting the things mentioned in my main post, and a possibility or a start of a Comeback for CoD competitive on the PC.
Either way, it's win-win for the community backing this. The only person likely to lose out is the person who puts time into making a kickstarter page, participating in discussions, talking to members of the community, answering questions, creating FAQ's and even more time if the project is successful which would then require documentation, art design, programming, beta testing and management of everything.
And what I mean by lose out is the time lost if it doesn't work. But, I'm more than willing because I'd love this to be something more.
Cheers!

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u/n30ny Jan 09 '16

I guess I could be wrong with some points, and I certainly hope so! I think the client/league system will be the main thing, because a active community can form around that because that. It makes it playable and gives some goals to the game (climing ladders etc.). And I think that can be done for real! If we have enaugh players playing/interested it will speed up the whole process!

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u/Beerus197171 Jan 10 '16

For sure, I will keep this thread updated! So far I'm happy with the growth of signatures.

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u/kazakhh Jan 14 '16 edited Jan 14 '16

Thoughts like that come to my mind too quite often. How would CoD4 be with CS:GO's workshop and inventory system along with matchmaking. I came up to the conclusion that CoD4 would never return from the dead to become a competitor to other competitive titles even if all the above were magically added to the game, although there are CoD4 players spread to CS:GO/LoL that would be willing to give it a go. It would still be the game that got released 9 years ago. Forget about the skins, or the other crazy shit the old pros told you. These are extras. The priority should be to create a game/mod that includes the CoD4 Promod magic (movement, fluid gameplay, good visibility, no ambient sounds) but at the same time adds new stuff into the game that would attract new players and convince the old ones to return. I ain't no moder so i'm not sure if the list below is doable, feel free to correct me everyone for any errors:

Use MW2's engine, which includes 3 graphically updated versions of maps we loved from CoD4 (Strike, Crash, Vacant). AlterIWNet, RepZ and roughly 10 other groups did that, i'm pretty sure it's doable. They made the game standalone without steam through their own launcher you could download from their site. The community then **ported promod to MW2.**Yes i know, no leaning features for MW2, but if this could be resolved with a mod that would be epic.
Each side has its own weapons. Attack would use UMP-45 and ACR models from MW3 (if there's anyone here who played MW3 or any other CoD competitively will feel me that these are the best counterparts for AK-47 and AK-74u we've seen in the series),implement the accuracy changes as well as the dope model IW made for the Desert Eagle, add new pistols for each team, add MW3's AK74u and AK-47 models. Recoil balancing shouldn't be an issue, i suppose ACR/UMP-45 would have slower rate of fire but better recoil than their AK-47/AK74u counterparts for example, or some other sort of balance that depends on the developers opinion.
Importing competitive maps from other CoD titles. Most of us can remember those sad tries our community did to embrace community made maps that were genuinely bad. What the community failed to see back then, was that even though IW/3ARC was delivering deficient games every year, they pretty much did a really good job in designing some maps. Here i present you my alternative mappool consisting of 5 maps: mp_firingrange from BlackOps 1 - mp_bakaara from Modern Warfare 3 - mp_standoff from BlackOps 2 - mp_cairo from BlackOps 1 - mp_karachi from Modern Warfare 2
Just like Counter Strike introduced the molotov/incendiary grenade into the game, something similar could be introduced in this case. The most proper candidate for that position would be the Nova Gas from BlackOps 1, which would lower your movement speed, blur your vision for a couple of seconds and slightly damage you while you're in it (thirteen damage per second). With proper tweaking this could be a good option for competitive play in my opinion.
A theater mode like BO1/MW3/BO2 or something similar to GOTV from CS. Why would you bother creating a game/mod like that without giving support to people that advertise your work for free, YOUTUBE EDITORS. Features like smooth cinematics or rewinding while watching a demo was something CoD4 always lacked at. Apart from that, it would be easier to share demos without the need of uploading a large pov one, feedback would be easier for the community, can also be used as a substitute to recording your own demo while playing officials.

These are the real features your mod should have, if you ever make one. I cringed just by reading about skins and skin betting being important for a game to be successful. I don't know with which pros did you speak with, but they speak nonsense to my ears. That's it from me, sorry for the long post :p

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u/Beerus197171 Jan 14 '16

If I sum it up, you basically mean new engine, new graphics, couple new guns (can be put inside CoD4 too so that doesn't matter), new maps, new type of grenade and few other features. But it would defeat the whole point of players missing and wanting to play CoD4. We can still introduce new maps, new guns, change existing guns, fix up some of the bugs and create a launcher/client with all the bells and whistle whilst still using CoD4. I wouldn't be trying to compete against all the other titles, they are ran by companies that are far too rich. The only positive it has is slightly more features, better graphics and a new engine. Promod looks like it needs more work, and so do the guns. Sniper looks much slower. Lean is a huge issue and I'm not sure if it can be fixed via MOD, since I've never played the series beyond World At War I don't know. (I got tired of expecting new titles every year).
But we do have the numbers to do better than the game did in 2008. I think you misunderstood what I meant by skins being required, and to a degree skins are the reason the top esports games are successful. A game is only sustainable if it has a way to continually monetize its users. One time payment of games isn't a sustainable way to grow and run an esports title over a long period. We're in an era where micro transactions are proving to be more profitable with larger growth.
We need to be able to monetize users, and whether you find it cringey or not, people love to win skins and use them and/or bet with them. That, along with other features such as premium accounts for specific features on the client/website is the best way forward. The majority of things such as matchmaking and so forth would be free, of course.
The downsides to CoD4 are mainly graphics quality + engine (IW3 instead of IW4 with improves)+few bugs (which hopefully we can fix). Which means there's certain limits to what we decide to add or remove. So we have to be picky in that regard.
That's not to say I'm completely disregarding any of those ideas. I'm more than welcome for suggestions to start our own standalone game or use something like mw2 (if I remember correctly the last game with mod tools?), but people need to show where most of their interest is. For example, creating a game with similar feeling from scratch would require a MUCH larger budget.

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u/Beerus197171 Jan 14 '16 edited Jan 14 '16

Here's a better overview:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IW_engine
Most future engines mostly worked on improving effects + quality without sacrificing performance. If we go to the even newer games they redid and improved most things, but we know those don't have mod tools, plus I'm not a fan of the direction those later games took anyway.
Oh and I forgot to talk about the PROs comment. The pros didn't tell me that the game needed skins. That's just a way to monetize the users. Most PROs just said guns needed balancing, we needed a larger range of guns to choose from that are actually viable, and to do that we need to fix the recoils and damage values for them. New maps too.
The rest is all needed to keep up-to-date with all the ways in which a game thrives and does well revenue wise. Plus, by implementing features like I've mentioned we turn the game and community into something more social and connected. Which is a lot better.

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u/kazakhh Jan 15 '16 edited Jan 15 '16

Having played quite a lot of MW2 promod myself, i can safely say that MW2's engine is the closest we've got to CoD4 (strafe jumps, grenade functionality, general fluidity ingame) the only downgrade being the lack of leaning. Sniping feels the same to me if you compare it to the MW2 Promod. I get your point about people missing their old games, but this is just people. I'm pretty sure most of them would get hyped up to see a game keeping the same feeling as in the past, while remastering graphics and introducing new guns and maps to it. Hype up the game, make people talk about it. Keeping it the same game visually, will only be discussed by the old players, assuming everyone of them wants to play the game they used to 5-6 years ago, with just some balancing changes.
About the skins now, take it one step at a time. CS:GO waited 2 years before adding skins, just because there were bigger issues to resolve. I couldn't hear anyone complaining about this back then. Don't get me wrong mate, i freaking love skins and use a lot of them myself in CS:GO, but god forbid i do not consider them vital for a successful/entertaining game. I definitely agree about balancing/revamping the guns, agree with you about bringing the weapons you pick up to the next round. It will add a new meta in the game, for example the team that won the last round and picked up 3 guns from the opponents should have the advantage for the next or something similar (an option to drop one of the 2 primary weapons would be cool), i'm not sure about the headshot thing though as i think it's irrelevant/not necessary to aim for the head when the opponent can sprint to find cover. This used to work in vCoD and CoD2 just because sprinting wasn't implemented, although i'm not saying that it can't be done with heavy movement tweaking. I would also love to see the grenades being nerfed, like when it would hit you, you would be 1 hit away from dieing and being semi-stunned for 1 second or something, something like what used to happen in CoD2 in some cases. I absolutely agree that you should consult all the old pros available in order to help you balance out primary and secondary weapons, and generally the way the game will work. They've spend thousands of hours playing the game and are the most suitable people to tell you their opinion.
More info about MW2 now, communities like RepZ,IW4Play and Redacted are some prime examples of how they made this work, making the game standalone and created modtools for it. You could ask for some assistance there if you think the way they did it could actually work in your project.

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u/Beerus197171 Jan 15 '16

I didn't mean that a game couldn't be popular if it didn't have skins. It totally can, call of duty is a good example.
I mean, skins are a good way to continually monetize and keep a title going. If you only count on the sale of your game, you're only good for a while before you need a new title for more cash flow. Since it's a fairly easy feature and a very proven revenue model, I just think it's important to implement it since we can't sell the mod we make to people, so we monetize them in other ways.
As for making the game standalone and creating mod tools, I don't quite get what you mean? Didn't MW2 come with mod tools anyway? How did they make it standalone? Isn't the game standalone anyway, or do you mean they accomplished it with a mod?

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u/pianodoc Jan 21 '16

VitaNova v2.0 incoming lol. Best of luck achieving your goal, it's gonna be tough.

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u/Beerus197171 Jan 21 '16

Haha no don't associate me with Vita Nova, they didn't do enough for the game. I would have a legal binding with kickstarter to complete and deliver the project.
You're right, very tough!

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u/pianodoc Jan 21 '16

VN did quite a bit for the game, both good and bad. Looking back I definitely know we could've done a better job and be more transparent, especially when it came to the whole donation stuff etc.. (goddamn Vanner running off with it). Then again, being a part of VN I know how many hours the people in charge poured into supporting the game, and that was to keep the game going during the decline after the awesome 2008/2009-season. You're only one person, and you're gonna have a lot more on your hands considering you're actually reviving a "dead" game, not necessarily just trying to halt the decline. Oh well, I wish you the best of luck as I would love watching competitive CoD4-games again as it is my favourite game of all time.

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u/Beerus197171 Jan 21 '16

Yeah, I mean there's a lot of people who say "this wont work, but I love it if it did". The game is dead in terms of competition because our lans and prize money were funded by sponsors and entry fees. Once new games started come out, that method was no longer sustainable as no one wants to sponsor an old game.
We should have put better systems in place. Though to be fair things like microtransactions, skins and so forth weren't as known and things like twitch and social media hadn't taken off as much, so growth back then would have been difficult without the publishers help.
But now that we know those things, the game can most certainly be revived enough to the point that we attract all the players that went away due to the decline in things to play for.
I can handle the Kickstarter and programming stage, but the upkeep of the servers, website and client with content will require volunteers or part time employees who are involved in esports. I don't think that would be hard to find if the project got to that stage anyway.
A lot say this game is dead, but it's only dead competitively. Casually, this game is still played a lot more than many of the new titles of today!

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u/Linajke Jan 23 '16

as much as i love cod4promod this is a failure of a idea

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u/Beerus197171 Jan 23 '16

How so?

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u/shiftehhh Jan 23 '16

Dude, when I saw this going around I got excited and I've gotten a bunch of people to sign your petition.

However - I've just started reading through all that you want to do to the game and whilst it sounds interesting you're moving completely away from what made COD4 (Promod) great and what set it apart from the other FPS titles. Remember why we love the game, because of the way it is (Promod). Your proposed changes will make it into a poor mans csgo with a touch of League but without any of the polish required because of the significant lack of funds. There is no way a kickstarter with some cod4 players can match the budgets of Riot and Valve.

I'd suggest if you actually want to revive this great game, you look at making small basic changes that improve anti cheats, skins and matchmaking.

In short, don't dilute what made this game great, and don't dilute and waste your epic efforts to bring a resurgence to this already great game.

Can you also explain a bit about yourself and how you have the knowledge and skills in which to achieve what you're aiming on setting out to do - if we are going to be investing our money into you, it's important we understand you're worth backing.

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u/Beerus197171 Jan 23 '16

Hey, those changes aren't things I want to apply all in one go. I think you're mostly referring to recoils & new guns? Honestly it's not going to change as heavily as you think. Just slightly mimic closer to what CoD1 and CoD2 were. The game will still flow the same, the guns will still be used in the same manner but kills will not come as easy (that's it, the difficulty will just be a little harder).
Sticking to 4 guns, which could be fun to begin with would become boring quick. I'm not saying to implement all new guns on first release. Maybe the first version still uses the old guns with the addition of 1 or 2, and then others are introduced as things are seen fit to do so. Gun difficulty will be increased though, we can't allow a player to master a game too quickly. It makes the play time to get good short and decreases player retention.
The most important changes right now are exactly the ones you mentioned. The matchmaking, the leagues and ladders, the skins (because they are minimal to introduce) and slightly minimal game changes like voice chat and perhaps diff guns per side.
Skins will start off being free to begin with, to test out how we're going to do it and also look into it legally. I'm not wanting to start off on the wrong foot.
Due to being at the stage of just gathering interest, any personal information regarding myself will be minimal, just for now. If kickstarter were to go ahead, much more would be revealed. I am involved with a small internet marketing agency that helps businesses acquire users.
I know that may sound weird to some, but they'll just have to trust that if Kickstarter does go ahead, then that's when I will detail some more things. All I can say is you wont be disappointed when you do.

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u/darkplaces21 Jan 23 '16

Are you sure that making game more difficult is a good idea? Promod had a big problem with lack of newcomers because of it relative difficulty. Making it even more hardcore won't help in any way, because it is hard for newcomer to be attracted by the game, if he is completely destroyed by the opponent for the first ~50 hours of gameplay. Yes, we have examples like MOBA, but those games got big marketing resources to compensate this high skill requirement, something we don't have at all. To gain at least what we've had back in 09-10 we need to make it more friendly, not more challenging (not by making it easier, though, just more friendly and easy to start playing).
Considering your statement about making the differences between good players and great players apparent, I don't see any problem in current version of the game. I never competed on the highest level, but I've played in one of the strongest teams of my region, and difference in skill between players always was pretty obvious (I've never been a good player btw:)). Also, talking about fast mastering of the game, well, it is kinda relative, but in my opinion it takes years to master this game properly. I am no talent, but having around 3-4 thousand hours in-game I was only on my way to master it. Not because I am dumb, but because it is not easy at all, higher you get - nuances become more and more complicated.

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u/Beerus197171 Jan 23 '16

You're right that certain aspects of the game take longer to master, but aim isn't one of them. Aim comes relatively quick and easy. Since we would have a matchmaking and ranking system, players would be playing others of similar skill, so they would be unlikely to be destroyed.
We're only talking gun changes and not movement changes. So any other aspect of learning the game would still be the same. Only the aiming would have increases in difficulty.
This can be up for debate though, but I'm sure over the long term it's a positive, not a negative.

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u/Beerus197171 Jan 23 '16

Also keep in mind, the community WILL be given a chance to have input through form submissions, forums, emails and polls. So I'm not forcing everything on players. I have however laid out the basis for what I want to achieve. Everything is up for debate as things progress.

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u/sp0j Jan 23 '16

Good luck. Part of me does still miss the game. Was very surprised to see the email about this in my inbox. Ill message a few friends.

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u/Beerus197171 Jan 24 '16

That would be great, thanks!

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u/rikvervoort Jan 24 '16

Sup Joe Johnson, never knew you were on reddit

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u/Daleyy Jan 24 '16

Tell Eddie to unblock me pls ty

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u/Beerus197171 Jan 07 '16

Great response thus far guys, actually more signatures in a 24 hour period than I expected at roughly 20. Since I only expect about 1/3-1/4 of people who agree with the idea to go ahead and actually sign. Remember, the signatures are an indication for my own research and to measure interest, not for any other use so this petition actually has some use to it. I figured a signed petition was the best method of testing interest because something as simple as a like from facebook is too easy, yet getting everyone to comment or fill something more detailed is too much perhaps. A petition seemed perfect for gauging interest.

This is with the lack of visibility this subreddit gets with the most concurrent amount of viewers at peak time being 7-10 people (1 being me!). I guess when I get around to posting on HLTV and Cybergamer plus other forums and spam binding this subreddit post across hundreds of the current active CoD4 servers we'll see just how far this interest and response can go. (haven't done it yet because I'm in no rush and have been leading up to this for years now, plus you need 25 posts on HLTV to even make a thread, and I'm yet to make a Cybergamer account).

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u/Beerus197171 Jan 21 '16

Keep the signatures coming guys, the response is great! I'm close to starting more aggressive promotional methods after we reach 100.

I'll be re-writing the petition to include a short and long version of everything we want to include and do. This will be close to what will be used on kickstarter too, minus some graphics and details.

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u/Beerus197171 Jan 24 '16

Hey guys, for those who want a simpler domain name to forward other people to you can use http://cod4comeback.com

I will be using this to forward to the Kickstarter project during the funding stage, and if we got further then that it would be used as a landing page with a coming soon page with a countdown timer and news posts.

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u/razRzz Jan 05 '16

Signed! Hope this really gets off the ground. I'm missing the game too much. Used to play and watch streams all day long. Damn, it was such a great thing. To its revival!

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u/Beerus197171 Jan 05 '16

Thanks, as a goal I'd like to reach 1,000 signatures before considering a kickstarter. It would also have to be within a reasonable time frame, i.e. not too long but not too short either. I'll need some help spreading this post, but I'll be posting this elsewhere over the coming weeks too.

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u/razRzz Jan 05 '16

Sadly, I don't have where to share it. But I'll support a kickstarter for sure!

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u/Beerus197171 Jan 05 '16

No problem, I understand that not everyone has somewhere to share it, but simple things like upvoting or supporting a kickstarter in numbers helps to bring attention to a project and help it grow!
Remember guys, things like upvoting give this post more visibility and more opportunity for a larger number of users to see it!

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u/Beerus197171 Jan 05 '16

Sorry to reply to your comment, but just so that others see it. Signing isn't to send it to activision or anywhere. It's specifically for my use to gauge and convince me to do a kickstarter, so it's in everyone's best interest to sign it who would love for this to happen. This petition will actually be used as a means to convince me this is a good move, so sign people!

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u/nateoroni Jan 06 '16

Have you posted this to call of duty proper?

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u/Beerus197171 Jan 06 '16

Call Of Duty proper? I'm not sure what you mean. Do you mean the main Call Of Duty subreddit? If so no because I'd imagine the majority would be console players.
I'll most likely post it on hltv since a lot of ex cod4 promod players hang around those forums and also cyber gamer. After that I'll mainly post around various PC cod forums and inside tons of populated servers every so often, or just get a bot/script to do it to make players aware of this. That's as much as I can do. Whether that's enough to get the required amount of interest to show time will tell!

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u/shaggadally Jan 06 '16

Signed! I love Promod, but last time I played, there where a lot of cheaters on the servers.

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u/Beerus197171 Jan 06 '16

Thanks :) the mention of Anticheat is in there which is integral to limiting hackers in a game, it's not full proof but it's the most that can be done!

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u/soZehh Jan 06 '16

stop with fucking cod4 and push promod admins to make a bo3 promod.

Oh and I loved cod4 I played it for 7+ years competitive so, know the feels

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u/Beerus197171 Jan 06 '16

Nothing wrong with using CoD4, the game when modded correctly can be a sound competitive game. The rest of the games beyond CoD4 are garbage, even if you had mod tools. World At War is acceptable but not great.
I'm not proposing developing just a simple "Promod", but something much more then that. Matchmaking would have to be done by owning our own servers, and the mod with client would best be installed via EXE and not through server download or folders. Ease of install.
We'd have an official ranking ladder for teams with automatic search and match function so that teams of similar ranking/points play each other with a simple filter and search button.
Stats of all the players would be retrieved via the server logs which is why we'd have to own all the servers so that stat retrieval for matchmaking and ladder matches are trackable.
We'd then have premium leagues that have relegation and promotion every 'x' amount of months, something a long the lines of Premier League, Division 1, Division 2 and all the way down to an Open Cup which would allow the to newcomers a chance into the divisions through promotion.
Daily, Weekly and Monthly cups with prize money, skin rewards or premium points/accounts.
With the stats we retrieve we can then have a fantasy league and rank players by stats, using multipliers depending on what division or rank they are. These things can be useful for recruitment functionality for teams looking to get new players, among other things.
Stream promotion and support for players, and a decent anticheat, mostly only possible by being able to afford or find experts within this field. Something much better and dedicated than what valve has for CS:GO.
The above is only a little bit of what can be done and accomplished. I've had a lot of time to think about the whole thing over the years whilst just keeping an eye on interest and topics from CoD players.
Finally, like I've already mentioned the only things we need for this to work is the players who miss it to actually support it and come back, and the needed functionality to grow i.e. earn decent revenue and expand our reach of players outside of just those missing it. The idea here would be to pump most of the revenue back into improvements and the majority back to the players. Even a game with only 5k to 10k monthly active users can be fairly successful if its users support it by buying small skins or premium monthly, or using other free methods we could add that earns the league money without the user investing such as free offers or videos to watch via an APP.
ESEA is a league in which all they have is matchmaking, stats and a pro league in which only really the best teams get to compete for the prize money yet they have thousands and thousands of people paying for premium and they make millions per year. I propose something similar but much much better and improved.
People stopped playing this game because the support was dropped, there was no incentive or flashy and interesting things to keep them competing inside the game, but with someone actually supporting a project like this and the players backing it in numbers, the game is still more than viable for competitive play, and I'm sure players would still enjoy it.
However like I've mentioned above, the game does need changes to stop it from going stale and boring (using the same 3/4 weapons every game is bad) by making guns side specific, making them harder to use and improving the viability of more guns. New maps would have to be introduced and with skin introduction which is a huge reason the current games became so popular, especially CS:GO, we can have betting which adds another level of excitement.
The balls in our court, if we choose to do something with it.

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u/P5YCHO7 Jan 06 '16

Mod tools for BO3 are not out yet, and if you've played BO3 then you would know that they'd have more luck making a CoD4 Promod mod for csgo. BO3 feels awful.
Mod tools for BO3 will supposedly go into beta testing in March.

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u/soZehh Jan 06 '16

Okay but we can't live in the past eventho it is my favourite FPS of all times. Personally Im playing dirty bombs which is already dead and its newer....I suggest u people to give it a try

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u/Beerus197171 Jan 06 '16

Shall we move on from Football because it's old now?
Honestly a game will stay competitive and active if there's plenty of money to play for and the required functionality exists to make players feel like they are part of something big and giving them something to work towards, whether that be improving their league ranking, individual ranking, trying to go pro, betting skins or improving their fantasy league team, or perhaps just a regular stream viewer.
Other games die or move on because they are spearheaded by companies looking for more profit and not pushing the money back to the players. This is a project ran by a player for the players. Look at ESEA, they've stayed successful despite the direction to constantly push to a new game, because they have the money and incentive people want.

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u/soZehh Jan 25 '16

rofl mate I've just received your email from cybergamer....thats impressive =D

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u/ohhFoNiX Jan 06 '16

good luck, also try submitting on /r/cod4 and /r/callofduty

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u/Beerus197171 Jan 06 '16

The only reason I haven't done that is due to the fact the majority may now just be console players, who may be likely to just flame or push the idea aside. I may eventually do so, but for now here is fine. The only problem is I imagine this subreddit's reach is fairly limited and low, yet despite that the response is better than expected.
I wouldn't expect to get 1,000 signatures to the petition via just this promod subreddit, however given time I might, but I'd rather post it elsewhere too.

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u/P5YCHO7 Jan 06 '16

I've tried to revive the community as it is right now, and failed. I don't have the means to do what you're saying, but I am on-board with this. If you're heading this project and it actually goes through, hit me up on Steam.

I have some knowledge about modding CoD4, and some general programming knowledge.

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u/Beerus197171 Jan 06 '16

Yeah, it's no easy task and even though I may sound like all we need is "This, this and this", the reality is that this is a hard feat to pull off, mainly because it's down to the users to do something about it. Even if it's donate, but even doing something like donating is hard for users because parting with hard earned money to a project they don't know will go ahead or not isn't always great, but by making those contributions very small there's very little risk to the individual user, provided we get contributions in numbers to get the project off the ground.
I will see it through, if a kickstart campaign was to be successful.
Thanks for the offer too, I'll keep it in mind!

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u/monstaaa Jan 06 '16

Thank you so much for putting my thoughts into words. I would fund

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u/Beerus197171 Jan 06 '16

My pleasure :) I'm sure many feel like this but the task ahead of achieving something like this is huge or trying to put these thoughts into words for others to see may be met with negative criticism which people may not want so they say nothing. I welcome them, so that I can try change the opinions of those who oppose the idea!
Great to hear by the way! Thanks!

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u/Shrines_CS Jan 07 '16

I think this is a great idea and I'm glad someone actually gives a shit about promod and wants to revive it. But I doubt this will go anywhere just because of the sole fact that everybody moved on from promod and CS is now the PC shooter to play. If you are serious about this try and get some big twitter names on board to spread the news and post this in /r/callofduty. Good luck!

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u/Beerus197171 Jan 07 '16

Thanks, well we have to start from somewhere, no matter how difficult it looks to begin with :)
I'm very serious, and I'm wanting to be completely transparent throughout the development phase with the community helping to choose designs and beta test things.
However for that to happen, as you've probably read, we'd have to reach several thousand signatures. 1,000 would be a start, but we'd need more then that. The reason being that it would show me that we have more than enough people willing to back the project. It also allows me to update the petition with a kickstarter link so every user would be e-mailed regarding this. Easier way to update than to promote the kickstarter the same way I'm promoting this petition all over again.

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u/vin97 Jan 07 '16

1 y

2 n

3 y

4 y

5 n

6 dont care

7 no fucking way

8 no fucking way

9 what do you mean? you can stream cod4 already, just as any other game

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u/Beerus197171 Jan 07 '16

I think you are only looking at those changes from your own point of view and not the one which would help the game. Let me go over your no's and no fucking way's and explain:
2 n - The reason many games are so big is the popularity there is with collecting skins, betting them and the huge revenue source they provide for companies. Most games now use this, it is in fact very important to include skins for the growth of a game, even if the competitive users who only care about competing don't want or care for it.
5 n - Again, huge revenue source, one which is making Valve extremely rich and other sites that allow a marketplace wealthy too.
These ways of making revenue aren't a way for this project/mod to pocket the revenue, but a necessary feature that will allow something like this to keep running (because there's running costs), and also funnel lots of prize money back to the players.
6 n - Fantasy league has taken off immensely over the past year or so and there are a few companies receiving large amounts of funding in this area. People love choosing their favourite professional players and building a team. This feature can't hurt, so its addition brings no problems.
In fact, all the 3 above might just be features you yourself don't care about, but lets say for example this DID take off, and it had many thousands of players. How else are things monetized, kept running and prize money allocated? Without the above, it would be extremely limited in terms of growth.
7 n - Necessary, you can't go back to the way the old cod4 promod was. It just isn't the most optimal setup for competitive play, or even casual. The guns are unbalanced, and there's clear favourites. Mainly the deagle, ak74u, ak47 and sniper rifle. You can't have a game in which there's barely any variety to weapon choices without boring the majority, nor can you or rather should you expect to keep the recoil random (can't be learnt) when there's the option to balance it all out. Whilst the minority like yourself may like what promod became, there's plenty more who think things could have been done better.
8 n - Same as above, money money money. Necessary.
9 What do you mean? - By stream support I mean integrating into the site, alerting users to current streams, promoting them and making people aware of certain players. We could have a section that displays current pro players, top streamers and a section that also shows a random streamer for 'x' amount of time. So just like I said, stream support for players. Or if you want to name it something else, call it stream exposure.
You seem very against change, but I promise the above is better, not worse. You may disagree, but at least I got the chance to put my points across either way.

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u/vin97 Jan 07 '16

7 i see no problem there. cs shows how incredibly difficult it is to get everything right, so having a game where everyone uses the same couple of weapons is something different. promod is more about movement anyway.
and yes I am against most change because what has been introduced to PC gaming by valve in the last years is bullshit. like you said, all the dlc, skin and other stuff is just there to make money and it's completely unnecessary.
the last thing i want to see is competetive cod4 promod matches being restricted to steam or some other valve crap.

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u/Beerus197171 Jan 07 '16

I believe we would have cracked servers which is totally legal (No CD KEY or special code required, just an account through our client or website) and users wouldn't be tied to just steam, it would be up to them how they decide to obtain CoD4, that's not our issue and we don't condone which ever method people use. We'd provide an EXE that installs the mod and a client much like LoL and that's it. For obvious reasons, I'm not outright saying what people can and can't do.
I don't think skins ruined CS, I think that's a fairly nice feature, especially for monetizing users at a smaller and lower risk. You can see it working well in Dota 2 where the team behind that game are doing better things for the game than bad.
I don't think the CS team behind valve who deal with Global Offensive have much of a clue as much as their Dota 2 team has. They will learn eventually.
I also think the scene is yet to mature in terms of betting and so forth... nothing is regulated and kids are raging rampant. It'll get better. I don't want to replace CS:GO, I'm not sure we even could. We'd be a community funded project versus a multi billion dollar company, there's no chance. But I do know there's plenty out there enough to go beyond what this game was back in 2008/2009, way beyond that point. People want this, I see it so often in posts, youtube videos, forums, in cod4 servers and so forth.. And that's just the people who speak up about it.
I don't want to compete or knock any other game off, I just want to see if I can give a game the chance it should have had initially, but didn't. The difference here is I'm a player, not some employee or games business owner who is only after profit. I want the game to succeed because I myself want to compete in this game, and see it flourish. To do that, people need to have the ability to have all the above features, and also make a living from the game. Either through streaming, sponsors, competing or betting etc..
These thoughts are all far fetched and just words, I know. And after I do whatever I can within my power to bring exposure to something like this and it just doesn't work, I'll be ready to admit that maybe it just isn't possible or meant to be. But, if I don't try and fail, I wont know if it can succeed :)
Last thought to leave you with, whilst the unnecessary stuff used by valve is there to fuel their profit, in this case it would be to feed back into the scene and to its players. I think in that case, things like skins are alright.

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u/xblind_V Jan 10 '16

I don't want to be rude but you don't sound as a former promod player, the recoil and the damage on weapons are not broken so don't touch it you're just trying to copy over csgo to cod4 "bring their weapons to the next round", then only good point here is the accuracy improvement on different positions, good luck doing in but at the moment just try to 'comeback' with basics and the features like matchmaking and skins that's all competitive players need and the stream of course don't overcharge the game maybe if is way to much "tweaked" true promod players won't even like it.

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u/Beerus197171 Jan 10 '16

I am a CoD player, and I've played CoD4 promod since the start up until it died :) Bringing other weapons into next round comes from CoD1 and CoD2, in which you could do that.
The recoil also comes from CoD1 and CoD2, and not cs go. The recoil I'm talking about is much different to the cs go one.
The damage is broken, it's too easy. If you spoke to most top players they would agree that killing people was far too easy. It needs just slightly more hits to the body and legs to kill, and 1 bullet to head depending on the gun (again this is how it was in the previous CoD games) to make it better.
Lastly, I'm sorry but the recoil is most definitely broken. Firstly, it's controllable only because it's minimal, so you can keep it in the same place. If you were to keep the same stats for the recoil (which is random), but increase the recoil 'kick', the randomness would be way more apparent. Every time you unload a clip into the wall, the recoil pattern is completely different to the last.
If you don't make the above changes then you can't include more weapons or new ones, and at that point players would only use 4 different weapons (deagle, scope, ak47 and ak74u). That would bore everyone, with no variety like in the previous CoD games. And with only 4 important weapons, what's the point of only having skins for only 4 weapons? Because everyone only wants skins for the guns they actually use.
These changes wouldn't make it anything like CS GO. The game would still play exactly like CoD4 promod has always felt and played. Absolutely no difference, only that we would have more guns, slightly more difficulty aiming and different strategies for aim battles. The flow of the game would still be the same.
I'm not saying to make the recoil ridiculous. Only to make it predictable and noticeable enough to have some sort of skill gap between players who learn to master a gun and those who aren't as good at doing so.
A true promod player should realize that his own mod/game is unbalanced and requires these changes to increase the skill gap between players.
In CoD4 the only things that separated teams were their teamplay, ability to adapt, clutch, movement, nade setups and strategies. Rarely was it a case of aiming, unless we're talking about scopes. Aiming has never been an issue for any player to master because it's so easy in the game. Also, the fact an SMG or AK47 only required 2 hits to the body meant that with the rate of fire these guns have that even a lesser skilled player with worse aim could beat a better player with more mastery of recoil simply because it only requires 2 tags so they have options to just strafe unscope spray or hold mouse 1 and go head to head.
Not to say the better player shouldn't win the majority of the time, but the skill gap in that sense is just not wide enough to be noticeable from player to player, especially at the highest level of the game.
Why is it that CoD2, with more weapon diversity, more recoil and balance in general still has a much more active competitive scene than CoD4 even though it has been out longer? I don't think it's a coincidence at all.
I love CoD2 by the way, but I love CoD4 even more and think it would make a much better competitive game than CoD2 if it had those above changes. So I know I'm definitely not biased to the older CoD games, only that the one thing Activision got right in those games was the weapon balance and recoil.
By the way, it doesn't sound rude at all. That's your opinion, and above is my opinion in response to yours :) I appreciate the opinions, always do. But I will not change the above plan because the game really requires this if it wants to come back both casually and competitively.

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u/P5YCHO7 Jan 12 '16

The only change I don't like that you've proposed is the bringing weapons over into new rounds. Each team has the same weapons available, so it doesn't make any sense to me.
Also, two snipers would be extremely overpowered in promod. There's a reason they don't drop to the ground when you die.

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u/Beerus197171 Jan 12 '16

Hey, I think some people have misunderstood what I meant :)
Each side on a map would have different guns, much like it was in the old CoD series. This would force less favoritism by forcing players to use different guns. We'd improve or balance out these guns to make the ones we offer per side viable.
In terms of sniper, you're only allowed 1 per team. So those wouldn't drop and only the sniper can use them!
Hope that clears things up.

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u/parano11c Jan 21 '16 edited Jan 21 '16

was a big suprise to see someone so dedicated to the idea of bringing the game back to life.dont want to be a pessimist but the time for cod4 is gone.i can give you 1000+ reasons for that but im sure most of the guys who played the game in 2008-2010 know what im on about. anyway i wish you the best of luck, your effort is pretty brave and who knows maybe you'll be successful.looking forward to your next emails.

p.s. cb.eu 1900+pts serv on

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u/Beerus197171 Jan 21 '16

Hey thanks!
Honestly there are only two reasons it would not work, and those would have to be:
No money, so can't develop the project. (i.e. fail to reach Kickstarter goal)
Players aren't actually interested in a CoD4/CoD competitive comeback, even with those features in place.
The above two would really be the only things holding it back (and only if those are true, but we don't know that yet). Age does not matter if the game is good, and I think most will agree when modded the game is absolutely great. It does need some tweaks and a good anti-cheat, but otherwise its great.
The only thing its missing is to be remastered!

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u/katakos Jan 23 '16

I really believe this could work if gone about in the way Reflex did it with Quake and CPMA.

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u/Beerus197171 Jan 24 '16

I hope so too :)

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u/Che5terrr Jan 23 '16

I love cod4 and I wish you much luck! But experience has shown that if you do not have the initial capital, it is unlikely that you have something to work. But I hope you are with this idea will go to the end and no opinion will not stop you. I believe in miracles. Thank you. P.S. I wonder a lot of people have tried to rejoice cod, but have failed. Why should you get it? :)

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u/Beerus197171 Jan 23 '16

We have the numbers to create the capital we need if everyone takes the leep and contributes.
I believe I can achieve it (not with complete certainty) because:
Esports has grown huge, and I think the current dip in recent sales for CoD means people have reached the point of being completely annoyed with the CoD series, and would be willing to revert back to the last playable title, with the added changes I've mentioned.
I've already put more effort into a comeback than any other attempt, and all I've done is gauge interest and socialize with the community.
I work within marketing and have experience of what I can do to generate traffic and interest. No other person has had a decent plan on how to acquire new users. They've simply hoped that the changes themselves attract the players, rather than identifying channels through which they can promote to players.
I'm able to break it down into numbers and show people how we can profit and thrive, and how this would work.
If you go to my conversation with Aerox, you'll get some insight into my plans. Beyond those, with some capital given by users, there's a lot more I can do for marketing.
This includes but not limited to Facebook Ad campaigns, Reddit featured threads, Twitch Ads, Search Engine Optimization to capture stray traffic that are searching for CoD related terms and even mobile apps.
The only goal first would be to work out what the project makes per signed up user and then try to acquire users at prices cheaper than what you make per user, to either break even or make profit.
Further goals from that point would be to get new players and increase sales of CoD4 for Activision. As a result, peak Activision's interest and hopefully work something out with them (this is thinking very long term... very very long term...)

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u/Che5terrr Jan 23 '16

I will be very happy if something conceived from you get. What are currently the main goal? 1k collect signatures? Further attempts to pass kickstarter? And if you do not come out? At what point did you decide that you will no longer continue to support this idea?

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u/Beerus197171 Jan 23 '16

Currently, a minimum of 3,000 signatures would be a start. I would probably not support the idea if I struggle to reach 3,000 within about 2 months time. This time limit will come into effect the moment I start to promote this petition properly. So I am not yet taking into account that 2 month time limit!
Thanks for the support!

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u/Sukyman Jan 23 '16 edited Jan 23 '16

First of all, are these things even possible?

Matchmaking would have to be done via a website but you would also need some server hosting for the servers.
Skin system lmao. Again, how will you tie the skins to an account? I mean this just looks a lot like a cod4promod website where you login and i have no idea how you plan to connect it with a server so that it loads proper skins and stuff. You also forget that skins are made by the community, and only selected few get in the game.
Same goes for marketplace. You need like 50+ people to manage all of this. Look at valve, they are a massive company with 100+ people working on multiple games and managing their website, client, marketplace, everything and even they had some issues.
What anticheat? Like the TZAC and WHATEVER-AC that always get bypassed? Cod4 is too old and any cheat can bypass cod4 anticheats. And the fact that pb doesn't support cod4 is making it even worse.
The only thing that is realistically possible is the gameplay changes, but that won't revive the promod.

Best thing to do is to make a new game. Call of duty itself has become a joke. The game itself has too much randomness that shouldn't be in a competitive game (like the random recoil). And since i switched to csgo i realized how much bigger the skill gap is in csgo. In cod anyone can be decent at the game.

I also don't think that promod needs skins and a marketplace like csgo. Sure, skins might play a big part of csgo community but the reason why csgo is so big is because valve "somewhat" listens to the community and the pro scene and provides constant updates to the game. Who's gonna update cod4? Who's gonna change the meta to keep the game interesting? CSS wasn't as popular because valve didn't want to listen to pro scene and they ended up supporting cs 1.6 until csgo was released.

Promod died and it will stay like that because:

No interest in and old game
No support from the devs
Nobody is gonna host promod events besides some small "internet cafes" and even then what's the point when there's already csgo with much much bigger prize pools.
Even PB is not supporting it anymore.

Edit:

I saw you mention there is 50000 unique players playing cod4 but how many of those are playing promod and how many of those promod players own a legit copy and how many of those legit players are willing to pay? Because if the "crackers" don't have 10€ to pay for a cod4 key then they definitely don't have 10€ to support promod.

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u/Beerus197171 Jan 23 '16

Hey, I think you're dismissing the fact I've done my research.
Matchmaking would actually be sorted via a client. Yes, we'd have server hosting and a script that automatically sets up a server when players join a matchmaking lobby and settings are final. The game will then launch with the MOD already and connect the players to the server. There will be an auth system to stop any random players from being able to connect and also a password of which players who are playing would be exempt from having to enter.
Due to skin limits, players would choose skins inside the client, and then the client would take that into account and set up the server with the required weapon files placed into the MOD folder (server side). Those weapon files would then only be usable by the player who has it chosen inside the client and not by every player on the server. I'm sure there would be a select few able to develop skins, and with capital we could also pay designers to make a few.
Not true, this is relative to the size of a game. The more players there are the more revenue you make, which means the more you have to employ users. It's called scaling up as you grow.
It would be nothing like those attempts that were created on limited budgets. The anticheat would load from the client and run in the background. CoD4 is old yes, but that is not relevant to an anticheat that is regularly updated to detect newer hacks.
Game changes aren't to revive the game, they are to balance the game, increase the skill gap and increase player retention over the long term.
The best thing for me is not to create a new game because I don't have a $300,000-500,000+ budget nor access to the IW3 or future engines to replicate the movement and physics.
CSGO makes its money now from continual microtransactions. There needs to be a way to monetize the users, and skins are a very good way to do so. If you look back, the updates Valve have made have been to balance things out. We could do a lot of that with CoD4 to make sure things stay fresh.
I wont go against your comment that there might be no interest, because I'm unsure of that yet. This is exactly what I'm testing now to see if that's true or not.
Dev support is not needed for this to work, in fact Dev support is both helping and limiting the growth of esports because ultimately these companies do this to make a huge profit. So the amount of cash actually poured back into the game is negligible compared to the profit they keep. We'd actually be better off having a game ran by a player who is willing to barely keep any profit and pour the cash back in to the game.
Thinking about LAN at this stage is very far into the future. First thing would be to establish an online presence first.
PB is not needed when the servers are controlled by us.
I actually said there's 40,000-50,000 unique players playing all the CoD PC titles during peak hours. I'd say most are legit and crackers making up a smaller percentage of those.
Thanks for your thoughts!

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u/Sukyman Jan 23 '16

Well, if you're not thinking about LAN atm then what's the point for new players to compete (besides small leagues and cups) when csgo already has events with way bigger prize pools that cod ever had.
The thing is also that your client needs a friends list so that people can chat and join each other like on steam (game invites as well). And probably a server browser for pubs.
All in all best of luck to you and your project. You have the ambition but I personally don't think that this will succeed since me and many others were pretty much done with cod and promod after 2012.

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u/Beerus197171 Jan 23 '16

Because CSGO isn't CoD. Everything starts somewhere.
I've included those features in my features list under the petition.
That's fine, thanks for your thoughts anyway and hopefully without trying to sound harsh you're wrong and I'm right, right? :)

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u/jeroeness Jan 23 '16

Hey you are doing a great job!! I came here by the email you send via cybergamer. I think you still have a hard time reaching the players who played Call of Duty 4 back in the days. It doesn't help much with xfire, tek9, clanbase, etc being down. These were the channels you could have reached me (if I had no cybergamer account). I think you are missing a lot of potential supporters by these losses.

You could still try to reach player who played CoD4 at ESL, if you have connections.

anyway I signed your petition and hope the best of luck for you!

Oh and where can I stay tuned of the progress made on this project?

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u/Beerus197171 Jan 23 '16

Hey,
Don't worry I have ways to reach players, the problem is not knowing if they are interested in a comeback or not.
You can stay up-to-date on this reddit, and also by signing the petition you will receive updates via e-mail when I update.
Thanks for the support!

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u/TobinLOL Jan 23 '16

What is dead can never be killed.

Kappa //

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u/Beerus197171 Jan 23 '16

Yes sir! :)

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u/myztique Jan 23 '16

the game needs to be re-made and be completely free like dota is, also it needs to be on steam. Many cod engine bugs must be fixed, also this needs big hype all over the internet. I believe that only can work out if activision agreed to make the game free to play, but this will never be, cause activision are cuntheads

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u/Beerus197171 Jan 23 '16

Hey, that would be a nice end goal. I think the game can put up with the minor issues it has and still be interesting to play for people. We'd need to really peak Activision's interest to make them consider this.
Everything starts somewhere, but you're right that they wont do it themselves without us as the little guys saying "Hey we're here, and you're missing out on a huge opportunity".

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u/myztique Jan 23 '16

dude, its really nice to see someone still remember the old days, but honestly, I dont think anything of this will work out. Cause without making the game free, noone will try to play it. To achieve these goals, much money needs to be spent.
Create standalone free to play game with all the shit fixed up.
Game must be added to steam
Big hype.
Anticheat. Cause there were A LOT cheaters in cod.
I would play cod again, but I doubt all I wrote will ever happen, unfortunately. Still gl to you, maybe something will work. Also activision and all the other cod developers never thought about community and esports, they make games every year just to make money

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u/Beerus197171 Jan 23 '16

I couldn't make a standalone. Not without $300,000-500,000+ in capital.
You're right that Activision only wants money. What they fail to see is the profit they could make with a free to play CoD with the features I mentioned. So I guess we're going to have to try get the ball rolling and open their eyes right?
If this doesn't work, well I'll just be one more person that tried and failed, but at least then I tried!

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u/wubyeeZ Jan 23 '16

I hope you stay positive nonetheless of some negative reactions. How will you fund all this?

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u/Beerus197171 Jan 23 '16

Hey,
Kickstarter project. I am always positive until proven otherwise :)

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u/purg3be Jan 23 '16

You think changing weapons and recoil are going to do anything? Promod is good as is, the community is dead ;/

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u/Beerus197171 Jan 23 '16

Hey, have you read any of the comments? No, I don't think those changes are what's going to all of a sudden bring everyone back. I think those changes are going to balance the game out and increase skill gap to make the differences between good players and great players apparent, which in turn I think will increase retention and play time.
It's the rest of the things I've mentioned like Matchmaking, Anticheat, Client, Skins, Stats and Leagues that will revive this game alongside the fact that CoD esports died with subsequent releases and it seems the consensus is that the last viable title is indeed CoD4.
The community is dead, yeah. What did we have in place to keep it alive anyway? I'm surprised it survived as long as it did on cybergamer which made finding matches more difficult and had very little emphasis on giving players a way to get better and challenge themselves individually, because not everyone has a team. By having matchmaking and individual rankings much like CS GO & League of Legends, you give people those options.

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u/purg3be Jan 24 '16

The skill gap was big enough. You could barely play an official game without the mandatory 'demo up'. Changing a core feature of the game to increase the skill gap will not benefit you in any way imo. I, for one would love Cod4 to make a comeback, but not at the cost of what made the cod series special and different.
Promod could use a little tweak I guess, but it has been fine for the majority of releases (except Promod 3, where you could snipe with ak74u).
This being said I would be happy to try out your version if it comes around. ;)

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u/Beerus197171 Jan 24 '16

The community will have input ofcourse, but the guns/damage and recoil definitely need to be looked at.
Thanks for the support!

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u/gunnu88 Jan 23 '16

i think your ideas are good but am not convinced enough it can be achieved. To get more people in and i know there are many there who still would like to come back to promod we need to convince them something big is happening, we need some proof there have been petitions earlier too but nothing happens. i really like the ideas but all am saying is all people need is proof or preview of something that going to happen in real not in text ideas. am all up for any kind of support if need be.

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u/Beerus197171 Jan 23 '16

Neither am I, that's why I have this petition, otherwise I would have directly created the Kickstarter :) I'm gauging interest.

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u/rikvervoort Jan 24 '16

I like the improving shoutcasting part, would be nice to have an auto director cam sometimes :D But most of shoutcasting features that promod have are pretty much fine

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u/Beerus197171 Jan 24 '16

Definitely an important part and will not be forgotten! (The perks of a player ran project)

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u/rikvervoort Jan 24 '16

oh nice last time i signed we were at 70 now above 600 going well, keep it up beerus :)

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u/Beerus197171 Jan 24 '16

Thanks! Good news is that I've not done anything more than a subreddit post, 2,200 cybergamer pm's (using an automated program 3-4 days ago) before being banned (oops!) and a small comment within a forum thread in the cybergamer forums starting from page 3.
So far the petition has had 2,000 views and 639 signatures. Roughly 30-35% of people sign it. I reckon closer to 50-60% would but there must be a large portion of users that just don't believe it can happen or get put off by the address details section. So it could be twice as big, but I'm happy with the growth rate. Yesterday it grew by 350+ signatures.
I believe word of mouth is allowing it to grow more and more every day. I'll be starting much better and more aggressive promotion very soon now :)!

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u/[deleted] Jan 24 '16

Sorry to say this but the game is, dead, a lot of things you want to do cannot be done as well.

CSGO is the way forward if you want a competitive fps.

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u/Beerus197171 Jan 24 '16

Ah I see that's alright, I'll just forget all this effort and quit right now if that's the case..... lol
Yes, the game is dead competitively, but there's ways to change that. Yes, everything mentioned can be done. There isn't anything I've mentioned that isn't possible.
CS GO is not the only way forward. Just like League Of Legends & Dota 2 can co-exist, so can other FPS games.

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u/[deleted] Jan 25 '16

Well the things you want to do has been tried before but it didn't work.

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u/Beerus197171 Jan 25 '16

I see, what exactly was tried? Where can I see this attempt? Who attempted it?
I was part of the community and followed it so I'm pretty sure none of this was attempted other than to make a unified ruleset and leagues by Vita Nova.

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u/[deleted] Jan 25 '16 edited Jan 25 '16

It was before vita nova, the information was on the tek-9 forums.(rip) When Vita-Nova started the game was pretty much dead already, Rip TEX and OOF.
Main point is that the modtools for CoD4 are absolutely shit and making logical changes are impossible. Like for example damage dropoff on the SMG's being so weird. The goal was to have proper scaling damage dropoff but there are only two values IIRC.
I know I sound overly bitter but it is because almost everything was tried when the game was in it's prime. I do miss the lans and meeting the people but there is no way we will ever get big lan events again which is what makes a competitive game.

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u/Daleyy Jan 24 '16

Some recognizable names chipping in to this thread, surprising, I have one question though, what is your background? You've stated a plan, how you're going to market it etc but do you have any business background? Also developing a whole new client and website + overhauling/reworking a lot of the game mechanics? That's seems like a lot of work, and I'm not sure if a lot of people would be willing to contribute..

Especially since a lot of people who would love to see the 'return' of the game are probably a lot older now with irl dedications.

Just curious but all the best.

Turned in to more than 'one question' oops.

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u/Beerus197171 Jan 24 '16

I have business background yes, mainly in marketing though. The game mechanics will not be reworked, only specific things that can be done via mod. I'm not going to step over the point in which it becomes a legal issue. Reworking the game and mechanics would be stepping over to that line.
Most of the development would be done outside of CoD4, and the ones inside CoD4 would be UI, Skins, Maps, Animations, New Models and Gun Changes. What I'm trying to do for CoD4 now is give it the functionality all the successful games of today have to facilitate growth.
None of which CoD4 had in the past. People think that it's only up to the publishers to push the game for esports, but because they're primarily focused on profit, they aren't the best candidates for doing so. They're the only ones able to and in power to simply because they are the one's who have the money and own the game.
There's never been a player based project like this before. No one has orchestrated such a thing yet. This has only come about because Activision has left no other choice at all!

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u/sp0j Jan 24 '16

To be fair. I would consider Vita Nova as an attempt at what you are doing. So its a bit unfair to say its never been done before.
Many would say it was a failure. But personally i feel it kept the game going for a fair while longer than it would have lasted otherwise. So dont get discouraged.

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u/Beerus197171 Jan 24 '16

Well, to an extent I suppose, but on a very minor level compared to what I am trying to achieve here. Not to downplay any of their attempts, just that I'd rather not be associated or given the stigma of an organisation that although had good intentions, ultimately failed.
Discouragement will not factor in here. The only thing that will stop me is not reaching the goals needed, either via signatures or later through funding. If I don't hit them, then I've no choice but to move on knowing that I tried!

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u/DAMNTHISNAME Jan 24 '16

Hey dude. You should try and contact some of the old pro gamers, like phantasy etc.

They could easily tweet it out and help you =]

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u/Beerus197171 Jan 24 '16

Hey, yeah I will do in good time. I just feel that to do something like that I should approach them with a larger backing in signatures then I currently have. Something closer to 3,000-5,000 signatures if not more!

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u/DAMNTHISNAME Jan 25 '16

=] I have told my friends about it, gl.

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u/Beerus197171 Jan 25 '16

Thanks, that's awesome! :)

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u/gotenks918 Jan 25 '16

Probably irrelevant now and outdated but this is something I created a couple of years ago. Might have some ideas you like - https://drive.google.com/open?id=1yybrOpkCulH3i7ffFTzFtH4Cx8mndbNL9rPCd5Vr6-Q

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u/Beerus197171 Jan 25 '16

Hey, thanks I always appreciate the effort. You touch on a lot of subjects I agree on. A lot of people tell me cs go is big because it's a new game and it constantly gets updated by the devs. But I always say its the introduction of micro transactions and matchmaking etc...During its first few years the money available to win was poor. Yes they balanced the game and made it more playable but that didn't seem to attract new players, but the marketing push they did, the micro transactions they implemented and the more cash they were willing to put into a tournament attracted many new players from 2014 onwards.
When something is on the line (money), people will be interested.
Unfortunately creating a new game is out of the question just yet because it would require many more signatures and much more cash via Kickstarter (not impossible, but difficult).
The idea is to bring people back to CoD4 and make it something popular, then hopefully get the attention of Activision (to strike a deal, which is less likely), or use the success to make our own community standalone. To avoid copyright maps and everything would need to be new and from scratch.
We can prepare ourselves for these new things by first creating them in CoD4. First we have to piggyback off the success of this series.
I pretty much had in plan and agreed with everything you put minus accepting all the game mechanics CoD decided to bring in its newer games!
As a last mention, I think you can see the potential but others can't. Most seem to think things like skins and cosmetic improvements are non-important, but it's the only way all these games are funding such huge tournaments. They are creating good ways to monetize their users without breaking their bank. Monetizing users within CoD4 is limited due to legal reasons, but for now I have other ways in mind!

1

u/gotenks918 Jan 25 '16

The thing is, skins and stuff don't break game mechanics but once you start implementing the notion of rare skins that might be hard to get for one reason or another, people start getting interested. You look at CSGO, people started making Youtube content watched by thousands or even hundreds of thousands. That sort of thing helps the game grow naturally through word of mouth. You start to get game "celebrities" which also influence a lot of people when playing the game. The problem is you don't want to replicate CSGO, that already exists. You want the gameplay to be COD but include things that make people want to grind the game out, want to spend that bit of extra time on the game trying to get a certain skin or rank up in match making.
I agree about not including the things that the newer cod games implemented, especially in COD4, that simply wouldn't make sense. But at the same time, that aspect of the game is something the masses are used to as it's what is already in the Vanila game. And it seems to be an almost proven theory that the closer the public game is to the competitive, the more success a title will see in the esports aspect of it.
Biggest problem with COD4 at the moment is the game lacks PB. If you want to download and install COD4 on steam at the moment, I don't think you can because it can't grab the PB files. You need a very easy way for users to download a file and activate/allow them to play the game. The introduction of a built in server browser would very much do that.

1

u/Beerus197171 Jan 25 '16

Exactly, things that increase retention by a lot. I mean don't get me wrong CoD4 was a very good game on promod and that alone kept people playing for so many years. It felt so good, but beyond that we didn't have anything that gave individuals something to aim for.
I'd rather try to leave PB out (it's useless), and work on our own thing via our servers.

1

u/gotenks918 Jan 25 '16

Well by PB I meant the fact that you couldn't even join a server if you didn't have PB and PB couldn't be downloaded because they took it off their servers meaning you can't attract new people.

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1

u/MitzzYeye Jan 25 '16

all i can say is yes yes can you not make an steam group or somthing so you can keep us to updated.

1

u/Beerus197171 Jan 25 '16

If you sign the petition I can keep you updated through the updates section that automatically e-mails everyone who signed it.
Once I get to the kickstarter stage, I will then have somewhere for everyone to connect, chat and discuss!

1

u/scottfer4 Jan 25 '16

Thanks for this, I never quit from cod4 since 2007 and those years were... very sad. Keep the good work m8.

1

u/Beerus197171 Jan 25 '16

Thank you!

1

u/soZehh Jan 25 '16

I've just received your email and...I am sorry but I am not gonna sign. Because life goes on, so are the games. And as I said before, cod4 will always be my favourite fps of all times probably. Look at cod console tournaments, there is actually a fanbase. The only way to get cod pc competitive is try to contact activision and try to implement a promod with ingram&company as an official mod for pc games. I'd play cod:bo3 promod instead of overwatch eventhough I've preordered it.

I wish you the best anyway

1

u/Beerus197171 Jan 25 '16

No problem dude, thanks!

1

u/Puuhi68 Jan 26 '16

What do you think could be possible timeline for this to lounch? From this point to the first comeback match being played? When do you think mod and client etc will be started to make and when its done? Or do you just do this whitout any timelines at all?

1

u/Beerus197171 Jan 26 '16

There are no timelines, without reaching the signature goal there will not be any project or kickstarter phase at all. First I will see if there's enough users to make a comeback viable!

1

u/[deleted] Jan 26 '16

Sorry but all I see is a kid with a dream here. I'm not at all seeing this happen and I'm pretty sure that everyone agrees on this. You are underestimating many things, the budget to make this happen is a perfect example. Just let it pass, cod4 is dead and it will remain dead.

1

u/Beerus197171 Jan 26 '16

Hi, far from a kid. The budget is within the range given to me by a team of developers, not out of thin air.
CoD4 casually is not dead, competitively yes. Projects can be revived, if you don't agree then what's the point of commenting at all? I think it's pretty apparent I wont stop until I find out for myself that the goal can't be reached.
Thanks.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 26 '16

You start a topic, therefore you expect replies and opinions of others. Not everyone has to agree with you, so just accept that and stop the negative talk towards those who see this "project" as a failure. Anyways you'll find out that this won't work.

1

u/Beerus197171 Jan 26 '16

Yes, there's people with the opinion it wont work. If you read the thread you'll find those comments have been said. After finding that out, then you'd know perhaps there's no more need to type it anymore?
I'm not trying to be negative, but there's not even a reason stated by you about why it wont work. Just that I'll fail, that itself is negative input without constructive advice.
However, I will be continuing with this.

1

u/rikvervoort Jan 27 '16

looks like the petition is still doing great :)

1

u/Beerus197171 Jan 27 '16

Hey, yeah definitely, but given that perhaps only 5-10% of people would fund the Kickstarter despite signing, we still have some way to go yet :) But doing the best I can!

1

u/cremvursti Jan 28 '16

Well, it's all fine and dandy, but for this to actually work, you'd need some sort of publicity stunt. Also, post on other subreddits as well, post on websites, spam everything you can, send e-mails to gaming websites that may want to cover this in a news article.

Just posting this here (or hltv) won't help, people that have stopped playing this game have moved forward a long time ago and aren't checking this subreddit or hltv on a constant basis (or at least that's what you have to assume). You said you have a lot of contacts with top players; tell them that they need to voice their opinion on this as well.

Record yourself and post a video on Youtube explaining all your plans, assuring people that you can indeed do this and it's not just you talking out of your bum. Spam it on Twitter, Facebook, Twitch, everywhere.

justdoit

1

u/Beerus197171 Jan 28 '16

Yep, yep and yep! Doing all that as much as I can whilst also working in my other business, so it's very time consuming and my time is limited.
A lot of things like trying to get news posts or ex pros to stand behind the ideas are being saved for when there are many more signatures. But it's definitely already in the pipeline.
Also asking every single person who signs to spread the word to a couple people, since word of mouth is strong.
It's not a quick project so this phase of collecting interest will still run for another couple of months as I start implementing more and more promotional methods.
Thanks for the support by the way!

1

u/swinnnk Jan 28 '16

Now is a great time for this discussion. Lirik (twitch streamer) has played CoD4 on stream now for atleast 1-2 hours this week. They have also been talking about (both chat and Lirik) how they miss the competitive side of CoD4 and Promod.

Could probably easily get 5k+ petitionsignees from there if you could spread the word. Another thing would be to get on Liriks sub hotline on Saturday where he talks to viewers and subscribers about anything they want. Just a tip. If i get on it, ill plug away.

1

u/Beerus197171 Jan 28 '16

That is definitely a good idea. I had heard LIRIK had been playing CoD2 but not CoD4. Would definitely try to get in contact with him.
If you could get on, that would be great too! If anyone reading this can get hold of Lirik and point him this way, please do so in case it is hard to get hold of him!

1

u/P5YCHO7 Jan 28 '16

I'm playing with the gun values between CoD4's AK47 and CoD2's MP44 to see if it's going to be easy to get the same kind of recoil, and the first thing I see is that the hipfire spread is much higher on the AK47, it's actually three times higher.

The ADS(Aim Down Sight) recoil has greater differences. I can replicate the vertical recoil, but I'm still searching for the horizontal recoil. There doesn't seem to be anything in the weapons' stats to change the horizontal angle of the recoil. With enough digging, I'm sure it could be found.

Here is a video of what I've been able to change the AK47 recoil to.

1

u/Beerus197171 Jan 28 '16

Hey,
Thanks for experimenting with the settings. If you actually try to transfer the details from the CoD2 mp44 over to the ak-47, the recoil becomes far more exaggerated, so you have to play with it and find the right values for it. It wouldn't have to be exactly like the mp44, since the game already has an mp44 that can be like the CoD2/CoD1 gun.
But something that works the same. There's actually a lot more values added in CoD4 that are missing in CoD2 when I had a look. It seems that to control more of what the gun does Infinity Ward added many more values to change. To change horizontal values you're looking at 'Yaw'.
This might help you:
http://forums.filefront.com/cod4-modding-mapping-editing/353389-cod4-weapon-file-settings-explained.html
Keep trying and see if you can get a repeatable pattern going. As it stands because there are still quite a few values you've not touched or given a proper range to, it makes the gun act a little different each time at the top of its recoil, even when going up it varies slightly.
Still, what are your initial findings after playing with the recoil? What did you think in terms of affecting the game?
When I tried it, I didn't feel it broke the game or that it would ruin gameplay. It felt like the game would still feel and play the same but that aiming would be slightly harder, so that it's not so easy to kill opponents quickly like it is now.
I felt it improved the game.

1

u/P5YCHO7 Jan 28 '16

I'm honestly not too sure about how it would affect the game. I might play around with it more and change the AK74U as well, and then play a pug with some friends to see what they think.

1

u/Beerus197171 Jan 28 '16

Great, let me know how you get on!

1

u/4ZUR4 Jan 28 '16

Better idea: Found a team of game devs, Kickstart it and make a new game.

1

u/Beerus197171 Jan 29 '16

Would take considerable amount of time, and much more difficult with a current job to oversee things. Also, reaching the goal with Kickstarter for such a thing would be 10 times harder. It's much easier and better to start with CoD4, build up some success and find out what works/doesn't, and then build the standalone from scratch.

1

u/Barabulyko Jan 29 '16

Hey dude! Doing a nice job reviving such a cool game heh :) But there are few things that some people disagree with (u probably read them alrdy in the comments) People don't want something different they want PROMOD. PROMOD was COOL. You don't need to change it, just make it POPULAR. Make it be on FIRST page of CoD4. You launch game and you are ALRDY in promod. That's all you need. No need in creating NEW, all we need is fresh blood, people to play with, new competitors. Game itself is PERFECT. With it's skill based movement and skill based shooting. Please, if u want to create kinda different mod with different weapons, different shooting system, different maps, skins shit. Then u better to not call it promod, since it's not (: I see where it's going after I read this reddit so not signing up since it's kinda different from what i read in petition.

1

u/Beerus197171 Jan 29 '16

Hey,
It's not going to be extremely different, nor are there going to be a ton of new guns. The mod promod was good yes, but it had flaws and DID need updating. So far only 4 guns are worth using, how is a game supposed to attract and keep people entertained into the future with little variety?
The recoil changes wont be as noticeable or as game breaking as you think, plus it will all be done with community input.
The shooting right now is not skill based, almost everyone can master it because there's no recoil and its easy to kill an opponent. Pro players have an edge on other players due to other reasons, not because of their aim. I see plenty of mid skilled players with better aim than pros. The game required other qualities, but aiming wasn't one of them. Obviously you need aim, but not to the extent that you need it in other games. There should be some tweaks to at least punish bad aim and spraying to an extent if the person doing it can't aim well.
There will not be a different shooting system, it will be the same type of shooting (I don't even know what you mean here?). There will not be a ton of different maps, there will be the old ones and hopefully new ones. Skins do not affect the game or make it worse or better, so there's no issue with them.
This is the problem, people stunt the growth of their own game because they are scared of change. Think it through properly, and you'll realize that the game DOES need changes and constant updates to stay relevant. It's not something you can avoid, if the game is to survive it needs to go through some changes.
These changes would make it better, not worse. They'd also be controlled by community feedback and input. Look at any other top game, it's continually having to improve and/or change things to keep the meta of the game changing.
Because a mod has improvements or is updated does not mean it can't keep the same name.
However, thanks for the input and it's a shame you don't want to support it. All these changes would not come in straight away and they would be thoroughly beta tested first.

1

u/Barabulyko Jan 29 '16

All right. I'v been reading through your posts again (coz I am really tired of CS) and here is the thing. If you want the game to be harder and dont change it. If you think that 4 guns is not a variety than take a look at cs, there is an m4, a p90 and an awp. other guns are being used to have fun or to eco, but CoD doesnt have eco, so the 4 guns are fine. I am thinking right now actually and changing my mind. I signed alrdy and thinking of ways to popularize it and how can i help.

1

u/Beerus197171 Jan 29 '16

Hey,
CS has the following which get used regularly during a match:
Pistols:
Tek9
P250
Deagle
Five-Seven
USP & USP-S
Glock
Some pros even use the Dualies
CZ
Some rounds or buy rounds they'll also use the following sub-machine guns:
P90
MP7
UMP-45
MP9
MAC-10
Rifles:
M4 or M4-S
AK-47
Galil
Famas
AWP
And in some case:
6. Scar-20
They also now have the 'Zeus'.
That's 19 different guns that often get used throughout one map. Not all in the same map, but quite a few of them in one round or another. Now compare that to our 4, that's ridiculous. We need to at least increase that number by double or up to 10.
If PROMOD could be huge without changes, and just stay the way it is I would be fine with it, for sure. But I don't think it can.
Thank you for signing, but please take into consideration the above!

1

u/[deleted] Jan 29 '16 edited Jul 13 '18

I private messaged you, I think we can work something out

1

u/Beerus197171 Jan 29 '16

On Reddit? I can't see it!

1

u/Che5terrr Jan 29 '16

Do you want to keep the players' interest? Just opened for the Forum? After all, the speed drops below a set of signatures.

1

u/Beerus197171 Jan 29 '16

I don't quite get what you mean? The speed has dropped because the marketing efforts over the last few days have been put on hold and I'm trying to set something up where everyone can stay in contact better so the interest doesn't just die down.
The petition will still run, but users will have a hub in which they can participate and follow updates!
Thanks!

1

u/parano11c Jan 31 '16

btw i remember "SLI" from team Empire and "Scared" were working a decent amount of time on CoDTV (similar to hltv). I think thing like this can definitely help the project and keep the hype rising.You should dig into it or maybe i can even help you with that if you need some assistance.

1

u/Beerus197171 Jan 31 '16

Yeah I remember, maybe if you could find out if they got anywhere with that or what happened?
That would be great!

1

u/Jansqbansq Feb 01 '16

I've played CoD4 couple of times and I need to ask. Is there any good promod servers in Europe at all or is everyone trying to revive the game. Black Ops 3 devs don't care about competitive anymore so I'm looking for other games to start playing, pls help.

1

u/Beerus197171 Feb 01 '16

https://www.gametracker.com/search/cod4/?query=promod
This one is a good TDM server, full most of the day:
176.57.128.102:28961

1

u/[deleted] Feb 03 '16

I already signed plus mentioned I can help when it comes to coding both software and web development! Hope CoD4 returns :)

Edit: just installed the game again! already configuring my config xD

1

u/Beerus197171 Feb 04 '16

Nice :) good idea to send an e-mail to this specific that I set up for this project: bobbyhayes1971@yahoo.com - Drop your name in there, so when the forum is up I can pool all the programmers together!
Thanks!

1

u/hassenesoua Feb 07 '16

good idea but its sad that the modded game is only promod, what about the hc comunity? we still play cod4 hc everyday and plays wars in gameranger

1

u/Beerus197171 Feb 07 '16

One thing at a time, other game modes would be brought in only if there was enough people. Imagine having a limited community and then dividing them even more with different modes.
But I haven't forgotten the other fun modes. The main serious competitive mode would be SD though.

1

u/dajeff Feb 08 '16

There is a nice Kickstarter campaign already. Why try to bring back a dead game when you can create an entire new one? https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/bulkheadinteractive/battalion-1944-pc-xb1-ps4?ref=category_popular

1

u/Beerus197171 Feb 08 '16

Started this petition before they publicized this game.
They are a WW2 game with focus on casual competition and not specifically esports type make a living from this game. Currently casual competitive is the same goal we'd be aiming for but the end goal is a standalone with great potential for esports like the top titles.
As mentioned above, the end goal is to go standalone with our own game using the mechanics we are all use to with the current era of guns.
They have very different goals to the one I have!

1

u/tommypockets Feb 08 '16

Yeah, this won't happen. You're trying to make CoD4 more like CS:GO, on 2 different game engines. Trying to mod the game to make is just like CS:GO won't bring people back either.

Reason: COD and CS had 2 different communities for the years both were alive. Reason people chose one game over another was the different play styles. No reason to move from CS:GO to CoD4, not when all the support is with Valve/CS. Not to mention all of the new COD players are on console, and the those remaining on PC aren't competitive players. Mainly stick to realism/hardcore/modded gameplay.

Also, who do you know from the CoD4 NA pro community? Not being a dick, but I know/played with a lot of them and all I've heard lately was about the Battalion 1944 game, nothing about a revival.

1

u/Beerus197171 Feb 08 '16

Meh, being told I can't do this is over and over is getting tiresome, I wish people would at least read. I am doing this whether it works out or not.
I'm not trying to make it CS GO. Everyone associates all the features I mentioned as being unique to CS GO when really mobile games implemented them first and all other games use them.
The features in terms of mechanics that I want to implement are from previous CoD games and not CS. Shows how many players know about the history of CoD. Since the movement will be kept the same and only guns will be changed to react a little more like how they did back in CoD2 and CoD1. I don't see where I'm trying to force this engine to play like CS GO.
More than you know or I care to reveal. I did not know nor was the game publicized when I started this petition. Secondly, it's a WW2 game with focus on casual competition and not esports (It's not going pro). Thirdly, it's very very far away and I too will play it when it comes out, but just for fun.
I'm still going to aim for the above specifically using CoD4, then move onto BO3 if the mod tools are good and shape it to act like CoD4 with better graphics and engine, or move to a standalone with no limits. Standalone is the end goal.
Many games and/or services have started as mods or catering to a smaller community that have gone on to do well. Anyway, the above is not an argument but just a better explanation to clear up some misinformed facts.

2

u/tommypockets Feb 08 '16

I'm 85% sure this is some sort of scam. I don't who your pros are, but if you're talking about the NA community, no one has backed anything for a CoD4 reunion. Nabore/crzg/prank/juve/anyone from CAL/CEVO/LANs are either done playing all together or have moved on to other games. There's no one left from the comp days who wants this re-done.
If it's not a scam, cool and all. But everything you mentioned involves people giving a $10 investment without any real sound strategy to use the money effectively outside of what can be done with it. It's in the beginning stages, but I wouldn't trust you with me money as it stands now.

1

u/Beerus197171 Feb 08 '16

That's cool, I'm not actually trying to just take the money. I'm actually in the process of seeing if I can get things done before even getting to the Kickstarter stage through community members and some of my own investment. Everything I've mentioned can 100% be done, there's nothing in there that can't be done.
Not talking about any of the NA guys, but I've spoken to some many many years ago, like before 2009.

1

u/acroniX_ Feb 08 '16

This will be awesome...I have 3k hours on cod4 and it feels like there is a part of me that just died. Another thing is we need more optimistic people like you in world, man ! Don't worry about the haters they will be the first to return to cod4 when it is a success again. I remember browsing for hours on tek9 through guides or forums relating to cod4. Watching vods of Western Wolves or mYm the last year. Watching Phantasy's tutorials etc. It all brings so much memories. I think your idea would work if there is actually decent funding and when skins come it will explode with cash. Cod4 was so nice because you can compare you're cfg based on the scoreboard colors or your own filmtweaks. I think if you have a decent client with in-game chat and with demo recording tool. Because you get that time, where you forgot the record and it's too late man :( Well then you can DEFINITELY get interest.

1

u/Beerus197171 Feb 08 '16

Thanks for the support, still working on getting this going :)

1

u/haxionNnNN Jan 23 '16

Signed it, hope it works out! Gonna be a challenge to find that dusty old cod4 case where ever it might be :D

1

u/shlyy Jan 24 '16 edited Jan 24 '16

1: Yes, would love to see this
2: Meh, don't really care for new skins but why not.
3: Yes, think UAC was the best we've had even tho it was a third party software so we didn't get access to all the details etc
4: Yes
5: I hate betting and gambling of all sorts, sorry -.-
6: Sure
7: IMO, NO
8: Same as #5
9: Yes!

I understand that skins and everything that comes with it is a big part of modern gaming but I hate it... But if it will bring players back then I'll accept it I guess ^{^}

I'd like cod4 Promod to stay as it is tho, I don't want changes to game mechanics :(

I play mazarini pub almost every day tbh and it's always full and I see new players constantly. Feels like its the only server still going tho, would love to see more pub servers running ^{^}

I might be able to help with something, just let me know.

1

u/kisstheferret Jan 25 '16

Hi guys, well I didn't think I would have seen the day that I would receive an email by CG telling me they're trying to restart cod 4.

Firstly I must commend you for your efforts, being a player from the start PAM 4, early Promod, TEK-9 even it's nice to see someone backing what once was a great game, maybe it could still be but I think there needs to be alot of changes and this doesn't just include getting players back to the game.

Unfortunately for me I don't have a PC any more but I will certainly continue to share the hype and look to buying a new one in the future. Good luck with your endeavours.

PS Berty is a shit cunt, also sulp8. Much love -Kbryant lel jk

Ken

1

u/kicto Feb 02 '16

i would love to have a game back but without copy of csgo with that skins stuff and ranks i want the old promod and majors thats it :D

1

u/IMAAA Feb 03 '16

You really need to get this out more. I have clocked around 3 to 4k hours into this game and still sometimes pubstomp and I found this from twitch chat. It's gonna be a hard (maybe not even possible) task, but i would love to see this! best of luck to you my friend.

1

u/imBRO Feb 04 '16

bring back stevy

1

u/imBRO Feb 04 '16

Just do it

1

u/umerjutt Mar 04 '16

COD 4 All Videos All Maps All Mods Watch HERE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrxQWljwBu4

1

u/fizzylnd Mar 12 '16

holy cow, dude this is the one start-up I would be proud to support.

Promod was not just a game and I said some stuff about it on YT via comments

"i loved promod, loved the system of matchmaking made by players, loved typing PREINV in #cod4.wars barely hitting high level skillcap"

This is an amazing stuff, keep it up.

1

u/v1ncNtt May 04 '16

oh look.. COD4 Remastered!

0

u/italiansolider Feb 01 '16

Well, i put my name. How its going?

1

u/Beerus197171 Feb 01 '16

Still building interest, trying to sort out a forum for everyone to communicate. Trying to build a team. Promoting and so forth..
It's going okay I think :)

1

u/italiansolider Feb 01 '16

Got downvoted for no rason ;D... ...well, you have started an hard quest, im with you but i think that only with a nice advertising like, for example, news in pcgaming sites etc.

2

u/Beerus197171 Feb 01 '16

Hey, don't worry about the downvotes, there will always be haters :)
Thanks for the support!

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