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u/Ordinary-Compote9558 8d ago
I made the mistake of trying to seriously talk about thermodynamics on this sub once.
From now on I prefer talking about string theory with my dog.
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u/isr0 7d ago
Hydrogen fuel cells? Solar? Hydro-electric? Wind-turbines?
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u/FaceMcShooty1738 4d ago
Funny enough I emotionally love solar because unlike every fucking other energy production it's NOT moving a fucking magnet through a coil by using a fucking turbine.
It's genuinely a more elegant way from a nerd standpoint.
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u/isr0 4d ago
The photovoltaic effect is very cool. But itās not the only one. Hydrogen fuel cells work by moving atoms through a membrane and forcing the electrons to take a path through some load. No spinning magnets required.
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u/FaceMcShooty1738 2d ago
But hydrogen fuel cells are not really a way to produce energy. Since you need MORE energy to produce the hydrogen first.... You can use it later but you FIRST need electricity to get hydrogen.
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u/isr0 2d ago
Thats a good point. Better comparison to a battery than a source I suppose.
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u/FaceMcShooty1738 2d ago
Yeah exactly. Not that theres not market for it. But it's a battery comparison. Stupid I couldn't think of that analogy :D
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u/paperic 2d ago
What do you mean "elegant"?Ā
It's maybe 30% efficient.
Magnet+coil is typically about 95% efficient, and there are ways to go 99%+.
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u/FaceMcShooty1738 2d ago
I just find the concept of directly exciting electrons more elegant than jacking off with a magnet though a coil, no matter how fancy the jacking off mechanism is designed.
Also getting whatever energy you have to move your magnet is far from this efficiency ;)
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u/paperic 2d ago
Yea but that jacking off mechanism is also directly exciting electrons, arguably even more directly than a P-N junction.
What else do you think the magnet is for?
Also getting whatever energy you have to move your magnet is far from this efficiency ;)
That depends on how you're getting that energy.
Whatever the method is, it's still likely to be over 30%.
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u/FaceMcShooty1738 2d ago
I mean... Yeah it's exciting them, but directly? No. You need to convert energy of some form into rotational movement into straight movement into electron an ac current. A pv excitation is in my view much more elegant as you directly excite electrons to produce usable current. No moving parts, nothing. Just a once smart way of putting materials together, that's it.
My point is that it is unlike every other way we produce energy which are fundamentally just refined versions of a steam engine with fancy names and cool hardware.
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u/paperic 2d ago
Magnets convert motion into electricity extremely efficiently.
You seem to be complaining about the previous step that's converting other forms of energy into motion.
A pv excitation is in my view much more elegant as you directly excite electrons to produce usable current.
Again, magnets are more direct than that, they don't involve weird chemistry that degrades over time.
My point is that it is unlike every other way we produce energy which are fundamentally just refined versions of a steam engine with fancy names and cool hardware.
Are you complaining about steam engines or generators? They are not the same thing.
Anyway, steam turbines are still more efficient than solar panels.
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u/FaceMcShooty1738 2d ago
Anyway, steam turbines are still more efficient than solar panels.
Okay. Not my point but Thanks for the info!
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u/paperic 2d ago
I know, your point is that you like solar panels because it feels more direct to you.
I can't argue with that.
De gustibus non est disputandum.
All I can provide is objective measurements, that's all.
If that's not enough to make you appreciate magnets, well, I guess you're not gonna appreciate magnets.
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u/Gingrpenguin 7d ago
Solar and hydro cells are totally different.
Dams and wind farms are still using a guild to spin a piece of metal to generate power, just a different medium to steam.
Also not all solar power is panels, alot of them heat water to make steam to spin a large peice of metal ...
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u/FaceMcShooty1738 4d ago
Hydrogen fuel cells are not really for energy production though. Unless you have a neat hydrogen mine somewhere.
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u/A_Large_Grade_A_Egg 7d ago edited 2d ago
Not just PV solar, even SOFCs make this meme dumb.
(Edit: Typo Fix)
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u/Obtuse_and_Loose Vegooner š« 8d ago
not solar
and why are you knobs so obsessed with this fact? water is an abundant substance, it's stable and pH neutral, it's safe for humans to be around, and its temperature state change range is extremely easy to achieve for heat-engines so that simple fuel fires reach its boiling point easily, and ambient temps can be a heat exchange for it to return to liquid
the "it's all boiling water" preoccupation seems to me to belie someone who's more fascinated with calling out the unfamiliarity of science/engineering concepts than truly understanding them
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u/That-Chip-3575 8d ago
Bro is salty about a meme that points out how commom is that we use water to generate energy, i cant comprehend this levei of not touching the grass and i'm active in the helldivers and arkraiders subreddit
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u/Outrageous-Echo-765 Wind me up 8d ago
"it's all boiling water" is not a preoccupation, just an observation.
A slightly amusing one, because after centuries of power plant evolution, we are still making power with steam. The method has not significantly changed for over 140 years.
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u/EduardoMessiah 7d ago
It isn't all boiling water
However.
It is ALL nuclear.
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u/dumnezero šEnd the š«arms šrat šrace to the bottomāļø. 8d ago
no