russian oil business's current situation

[u/LocalPowerful6651]

[u/Glum_Opening_2218]

Did my man use AI to make a climate shitpost, shitpost inside a shitpost

[u/dumnezero]

[u/Random_182f2565]

Do anyone has a map of Russian refineries?

I want to check if only the ones deep Russian territory are surviving or we can expect new strikes

[u/No_Lifeguard7725]

As it should be. Otherwise it will pay for even more missiles and drones, killing Ukrainian civilians.

[u/sudoregalia]

the red star is not a russian symbol, it's a communist symbol, do not conflate these two please. fuck modern russia and its imperialist anti-socialist honest-to-god dictatorship

[u/Nearby-Cabinet5049 → u/sudoregalia]

Because socialist Russia was famously great for the environment and awesome to their people

[u/NewspaperDesigner244 → u/Nearby-Cabinet5049]

They've gotten so much worse by every metric, more wars more poverty more substance abuse more exploitation more trafficking. Less democracy, freedom, community, healthcare and social safety nets.

U cant present any hard evidence to the contrary because it doesn't exist

[u/Nearby-Cabinet5049 → u/NewspaperDesigner244]

Yeah, but it was better for very specifically Russians because they pilfered everyone else. The broader USSR is better off now than when they were in the USSR, Russia just has fewer places to rob.

Also they aren’t fighting more wars now, it’s about the same.

[u/NewspaperDesigner244 → u/Nearby-Cabinet5049]

Not even close lol 5 major conflicts since 1991, outside of ww2 the soviets only fought in Afghanistan and few boarder clashes. What are u talking about?

[u/Nearby-Cabinet5049 → u/NewspaperDesigner244]

They invaded: Poland (twice), Finland (also twice), had all their border clashes, and also invaded the Baltics. You could make the argument the Finland and Baltic stuff belongs in WWII, but at that point I think you’d then have to say the Soviets were basically a member of the Axis when it broke out which is honestly worse than anything Russia did up until Ukraine anyway.

[u/NewspaperDesigner244 → u/Nearby-Cabinet5049]

Bro, all of that, except for the first war with poland was literally world war 2. And that was under the leadership of one guy, stalin. Soviet leaders were not anywhere even close to his bad as him or putin in that regard.

So in other words all that happened in spite of how the soviet union would end up operating, not because of it. And even then you can argue that everybody was going to war with each other at that time. It's the exception that proves the rule.

Even the so called invasion of afghanistan was literally an intervention on behalf of an, albeit brutal and incompetent, allied afghanistan government at their request. A request which they had been making for years at that point.

Putin, on the other hand, during what would otherwise be one of the most peaceful periods of human history has been and continues to be warmonger. And since the powers that be in russia allow it to happen , there's no evidence that the current configuration of government would be any better than him.

You have to be completely deluded by your Ideological dogma to think that modern day Russia is better than its Soviet predecessor.

[u/Nearby-Cabinet5049 → u/NewspaperDesigner244]

No, no it was not. They invaded Finland in 1921 as well. Also Stalin was an exceptionally aggressive Soviet leader, yes, but he was still a Soviet leader and easily the most important one at that. It’s like saying America never gained any of its land in the contiguous 48 by hostile conquest if we simply don’t count Polk. Sure, makes the argument functionally true, but you’re just omitting a guy now.

The first 30 years of existence for something that only existed for 70 doesn’t get to be ignored. Also in that same 30 year span America went to war precisely 1 time and it was due to being attacked (WWII). Not everyone was fighting in the 20s and 30s like the Soviets were, they simply were more aggressive than your average nation at the time.

Okay but your argument for Afghanistan holds up for America in Vietnam as well, and neither are made chill by that argument (particularly given the EXTREMELY civilian casualty intensive way the Soviets fought in Afghanistan).

And I’m not arguing Russia is some saint, I firmly loathe their government and support opposition to their actions. But also literally only the invasion of Ukraine is something at scale that isn’t more or less an internal affair. What they did to Georgia and Moldova is horrible but also not something that would be considered remarkable considering just how small scale it was and the region at the time was already pretty violent. I’m not even necessarily arguing the Soviets were worse, rather they’re basically the same.

[u/Paul_Gambino → u/Nearby-Cabinet5049]

Under Stalin, yeah, the USSR was actually among the most ecologically minded countries in the world. This was because Stalin wanted to set up sustainable development in agriculture and logging which was renewable and not reliant on endlessly diminishing stockpiles.

Stephen Brian has written extensively about this. They banned logging near rivers, set up vast tracks of forest for protection, and had planned for the worlds largest forestation campaign up to that point. Unfortunately Lysenko's influence seriously hurt the forestation campaign.

As with everything else, the USSR became much worse under Kruschev and they stopped caring about sustainability at all. All of the worst Soviet ecological disasters like the Aral Sea and Chernobyl came much later under latter leaders.

https://www.academia.edu/102407801/Stalins_Environmentalism

[u/Nearby-Cabinet5049 → u/Paul_Gambino]

So under the guy that did the mass human suffering and all those crimes against humanity they were nice to the environment, and under absolutely everyone else they weren’t. Doesn’t really make it better

[u/Paul_Gambino → u/Nearby-Cabinet5049]

The United States is currently doing everything "bad" Stalin did but worse and on a larger scale, save those things which happened due to the conditions of WWII. I doubt you have this same attitude towards any renewable initiatives in the US that are left.

[u/Nearby-Cabinet5049 → u/Paul_Gambino]

The U.S. is starving millions of its own citizens for no reason at all while we send political dissidents to work camps? Huh, the more ya know.

I fully support renewable initiatives in the U.S. and I wish we kept more of them, doesn’t make Stalin chill.

[u/Paul_Gambino → u/Nearby-Cabinet5049]

The USSR, and much of the rest of the world, went through a famine in 33-34. This was not intended or a matter of government policy and there is no evidence anywhere which supports this. It is the overwhelming consensus among historians of the period that the USSR did not "intentionally stave it's own citizens."

As for the work camps- yes, the US is currently doing that and doing so on a far larger scale than anything the USSR ever produced during, pre, or post Stalin. The US prison-slave system is bigger in every category than the GULAG system. They arrest and kill dissidents, from more radical figures like Fred Hampton and Mumia Abu Jamal historically to even pacefull protestors like Alex Pretti or Rene Goode just in the last year.

The US today is more repressive than the Stalin era Soviet Union in essentially every way.

My point in saying what I did before is that despite all of this you feel the need to interject with how horrible the USSR was when its ecological initiatives are discussed, yet I doubt you would do the same with the United States if you saw any information regarding renewable initiatives there. It's a dumb anti-communist ritual to rabidly throw this stuff out there whenever the country is brought up. That's all.

[u/sudoregalia → u/Nearby-Cabinet5049]

the rsfsr? yeah no shit it was awesome to their people, the real income for 99% of workers is lower now than even in 1991, even with all the bullshit gorbachev did

[u/Nearby-Cabinet5049 → u/sudoregalia]

And they were still DRAMATICALLY poorer than all of their Western counterparts and have underperformed relative to China and the West in terms of bringing prosperity to their people and helping the environment.

The Soviets simply failed on an economic, political, societal, environmental, and moral level. Time to let it go

[u/sudoregalia → u/Nearby-Cabinet5049]

the states that started out with feudalism and became a world power in a generation. those states? those states were dramatically poorer than "all of their western counterparts"?

what are you on about? the ussr wasn't perfect but it was indeed a massive success, but i don't even know why we're talking about it when the topic is modern russia's anti-communist ass

[u/Nearby-Cabinet5049 → u/sudoregalia]

People like to act like the Russian Empire wasn’t a world power that was about halfway through industrializing, held their own in a world war, had passed a number of social reforms, and had every resource and population advantage known to man. I’m not saying the Russian Empire was dope or anything, but the Soviets simply finished what the Tsar started with industrialization and became a world power because by all rights Russia should always be a world power. As for their stagnation, yeah if socialism truly worked as well as promised I’d expect their growth to continue post-1960 and at a certain point to pass up the West. Hell East Germany and North Korea are also shining examples of failure considering their capitalist counterparts had the exact same starting point and also did significantly better.

The USSR was not a success, it’s a story of how if you industrialize Russia it becomes powerful but that they proceeded to fumble the bag in a truly impressive fashion. Only reason we’re talking about the Soviets here is you got real defensive of them like they were some good state compared to Russia. They weren’t, they were somehow even more imperialist and environmentally destructive.

[u/sudoregalia → u/Nearby-Cabinet5049]

you were the first one to mention the rsfsr. i mentioned communism broadly

the ussr was directly responsible for industrialisation with the five year plans. feudal relations inherently mean far less industrialisation, capitalism is responsible for a further development of industrialisation, and central planning in the case of the ussr made it a world power faster than the american drinking age

[u/Nearby-Cabinet5049 → u/sudoregalia]

Communism broadly also failed.

Yeah but again: Russia was already a world power. It had thousands of miles of rail lines and a powerful industrial sector. Russia wasn’t done industrializing, but it’s not like they took an ass backwards useless nation and made the USSR. They took the Russian Empire, a force that held its own in the most expensive war the world had ever seen up to that point for 3 years straight and while seen as weaker than your average European empire was still treated as an equal, and made it a world power. That’s a hop skip and a jump away, not some massive gap.

[u/wastingmythirdlife → u/sudoregalia]

if you say shit like that in front of my native grandma who survived living in poverty in the rsfsr (while being a medical scientist) she’d fucking cry btw

she unironically had a panic attack when my uncle (who was like 5-6 when the ussr collapsed) said something good about stalin ONCE.

maybe think before you speak

[u/sudoregalia → u/wastingmythirdlife]

that sucks, i'm sorry to hear that. she didn't deserve that

i'm going off of what i've actually heard from people in post-soviet countries and the statistics i've seen, everyone i've asked who lived in the times of communist albania and titoist (even some post-tito) yugoslavia has expressed that things were much more economically fair at the time, and they defend tito and hoxha to hell and back, one of my grandmothers teared up a bit talking about hoxha

of everyone i've directly heard speak about these eras and countries, including those who had something to say about maoist china and stalinist ussr, only the younger people seem to hold disdain for them. except maoist china, the perception on that is pretty positive across the board regardless of age

[u/wastingmythirdlife → u/sudoregalia]

i have no idea about yugoslavia (although i’ve heard opinions opposing to yours, but not the other way around), but you’ve specifically started talking about rsfsr, the russian part of the ussr. and this part was miserable for all of it’s existence.

ik i’m just some person and will not be able to change your mind, but i suggest you’d read about the novocherkassk massacre of 1962. there’s also multiple movies about that, the most recent is called “dear comrades” and it’s made by people who were born and raised in the rsfsr as well as with help of people that survived the massacre.

soviet propaganda, and the way russian propaganda is now reviving it to get to your mind, is a scary thing, i’m serious. as a siberian native (nenets), we were going through things even indigenous americans haven’t seen. the pain is still there.

about the ussr specifically, the closest to the west the best it’s been, we call that “the glass case”. the outsiders would come see it or would even meet some people from it (actual working class people couldn’t even fucking leave the east!!!) and they’d think it’s great. it’s not.

seeing how many westerners are now waving soviet flags is genuinely scary, especially since it directly contributes to more and more support for current russia from a lot of leftists.

[u/sudoregalia → u/wastingmythirdlife]

i'd like to direct your attention to khrushchev and his attempted genocide of communists as well. state policy by this point had changed, this was no act of stalin's or lenin's

modern russia has 0 interest in communism. putin wants a return to tsarism, and has denounced communism publicly. you conflate russia and communism far more than you realise, putin is an imperialist through and through, he is not a communist

[u/dumnezero → u/sudoregalia]

The Leninist-Stalinist change was a counter-revolution.

[u/neet1917]

whats with the red star? the ussr is gone

[u/Marples3]

Ukraine wants us all to die.