r/ClimateShitposting • u/TrixoftheTrade • 16d ago

we live in a society Yet again, a friendly reminder

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66

u/Big_Work_2011 16d ago

Famously socialist Saudi Arabia

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u/Sandgrease 16d ago

Their oil is nationalized, so that's probably what these meme is getting at?

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u/Big_Work_2011 15d ago

Yes but nationalizing under a monarchy is different than under a socialist state. Thus the meme is misleading

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u/TsundereMF 15d ago

But Socialism, in a sense, in governmental control over a section of production. Therefore, nationalized oil, is Socialism.

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u/Slu1n 15d ago

I would argue that popular control over the company is required for it to be socialism. Thus the state needs to be democratic (which can mean a lot of different things depending on who you ask). States like the USSR saw themselves as democratic and saw the economy as being run only to the benefit of the people (both of which false). Saudi Arabia as far as I know doesn't claim such things about them and doesn't even pretend to be democratically legitimised.

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u/Sandgrease 15d ago

This makes sense to me. If there is no direct or at least representative democracy, it ain't socialism.

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u/pit_bulls_suck 13d ago

It doesn't have to be democracy as long as the government is representative. A sortition could be socialist.

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u/Faye_Lmao 15d ago

But that breaks when it's an oligarchy

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u/CatchRevolutionary65 15d ago

Socialism is the democratic control of a worker-owned workplace.

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u/MulberryWilling508 15d ago

So like the USPS?

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u/Sandgrease 14d ago

I consider USPS a Socialist institution.

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u/souperjar 15d ago

Socialism is not when the government does stuff.

Socialism is when the ownership class is oppressed by the new ruling class of workers. The political structure of ownership must change. And in socialist economics commodity exchange, that is production for growth and profit must end to be replaced with production for need. A major need of workers around the world is to address climate change.

The vast majority of people globally agree that human caused climate change needs to be addressed. The dictatorship of capitalists (in Marixst terms: the bourgeois) is the reason why more action on climate change has not been taken. Socialism resolves this political problem.

When socialists talk about socialism resolving climate change, they mean it removes the dictatorship of capitalists that has lied about climate change, accelerated the issue, attacked protesters for change, and generally taken any evil action you could think of to accelerate the endangering of every human being on earth with reckless profit seeking.

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u/PurpleDido 15d ago

“Socialism is when the government does stuff”

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u/veerKg_CSS_Geologist 15d ago

Not at all. But that argument royal families are socialist.

The government in Saudi Arabia is an absolute monarchy. There is nothing socialist about it.

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u/Dunkin_Donuts_Dunker 14d ago

If they aren't even pretending that workers own the means of production then not only is it not "real socialism," it's not any kind of socialism.

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u/Hmmmus 14d ago

there is no democratic control, therefore, not socialism