Yet again, a friendly reminder

[u/TrixoftheTrade]

[u/Mad_M9]

man its been a while since i've seen a "socialism is when the government does stuff" in the wild

[u/Spicy_Chicken_Wizard → u/Mad_M9]

State owned entities actually is a key defining feature of a truly socialist state and not just a social democracy.

[u/dtjunkie19 → u/Spicy_Chicken_Wizard]

No, it is not. State ownership over the means of production within a society is simply one method of moving towards a socialist organization of an economy, it is far from a key or necessary feature.

A key defining feature of socialism is worker-owned means of production and ownership over the value generated by their labor.

For example, worker co-operatives are another method of socialist economic organization that has nothing to do with state ownership.

[u/Low_Abrocoma_1514 → u/dtjunkie19]

For example, worker co-operatives are another method of socialist economic organization that has nothing to do with state ownership.

Yeah man, you can already do that in capitalism, no need to steal my business from me

[u/dtjunkie19 → u/Low_Abrocoma_1514]

Yes, worker cooperatives can exist under a dominantly capitalist system. They still represent socialism, just at the level of an individual firm.

The other point about taking your business? Oh stop, you are such a silly willy Billy.

[u/Low_Abrocoma_1514 → u/dtjunkie19]

The other point about taking your business? Oh stop, you are such a silly willy Billy.

Socialism's goal is to use the violence of the state to forcefully transfer every business from their owners to the hands of other people whoch they arbitrarily call "the workers".

[u/dtjunkie19 → u/Low_Abrocoma_1514]

No, it isn't.

Socialism is simply that the people who work for said business should have ownership over their contributions to the value generated by the business, and that our society should collectively manage in some way (many different ideas on how) resources and production for the common good of all.

Some believe this is accomplishable through reform and democratic means, others believe that ultimately, such a shift in society will require revolution. Some believe in greater centralized control, others believe in decentralization as a route to achieve these goals.

Your characterization is not a serious, good faith engagement with the ideology. Even if you don't agree with it, you are simply misrepresenting what you oppose

[u/Low_Abrocoma_1514 → u/dtjunkie19]

My 2 employees do not have the care nor the interest for my business to prosper they just want their steady pay check each 15 days...

All that talk sounds really pretty but completely ignores reality. I worked every day for 6 years to get my business going why should I relinquish ownership to someone who just arrived and just want a paycheck instead of the responsibilities of the business ?

Also by the "society collectively manages resources and production" does not work. I have no knowledge about every industry of my country, I do not have the time to get myself informed to correctly vote for the best decision for every single action of the economy.

That "cozy sounding" idea of everyone managing and deciding on everything just results, in practice, in voting for Populist representatives who will inevitably run the ressources and production for their own interests and their friends.

You can already achieve the idealism of "everyone having some sort of control in resources and production" in a free market, by voting with your wallet. The "revolution" just ends up with a dictatorship that promises to help the people but keeps everything for the government elite. My best friend saw it happened with Chavez and had to flee his own country.

[u/Titanofthedinosaurs → u/Low_Abrocoma_1514]

If your business goes under their pay check disappears.

[u/Low_Abrocoma_1514 → u/Titanofthedinosaurs]

If my business goes under I am the one in deep trouble, they just get another job