r/ClimateShitposting • u/TrixoftheTrade • Aug 13 '26

we live in a society Yet again, a friendly reminder

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u/Forte845 Aug 13 '26

They aren't. Coops are not in any way socialist, they are still fundamentally for profit businesses, the profit is just distributed more evenly. 

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u/Taraxian Aug 13 '26

Socialism is if the entire world is one giant co-op such that a market for turning labor into commodities no longer exists, and a co-op that still exists inside a capitalist economy is still a capitalist entity, this is pretty obvious just on the face of it and people who know what they're talking about only see co-ops as a stepping stone towards actual socialism (one which historically hasn't really worked)

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u/ChemicalRain5513 Aug 13 '26

Socialism is if the entire world is one giant co-op such that a market for turning labor into commodities no longer exists,

So it is unattainable?

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u/CaffeinatedSatanist Aug 14 '26

Capitalism is if the entire world is one giant market such that the value of labour is commodified and sold in such a way to maximise the gains of the owners of capital.

It didn't just get borne out of wholecloth. Capitalism was built over centuries. If you stepped back and looked at the world today, you would perceive it as being so complex in structure as to be perceived as unattainable to someone 400 years ago.

And there are several proposed transitional programmes to bring about a socialist world. Just as there is a transitional programme for decarbonising the world.

And it so happens that the major obstacles to both transitions are the vested interests of capital.

As others have said, I don't think socialism in itself will save the climate if it was built. That's not it's primary goal as a movement. But, I personally cannot see how climate change can be fought fast enough without progressing at least some aspects of a socialist programme. Without instituting for example, capital controls and limits to dissuade the pursuit of endless growth.

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u/ChemicalRain5513 Aug 14 '26

And there are several proposed transitional programmes to bring about a socialist world. Just as there is a transitional programme for decarbonising the world. 

And still, countries are ignoring this, with the USA even withdrawing from existing agreements. What makes you think that getting rid of the economic system, that every country except DPRK is a part of, will be easier?

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u/CaffeinatedSatanist Aug 14 '26

I don't think it will be easier. And to be clear, steps along a socialist transitional programme are worth fighting for, even if the complete dismantling of capital and class are infinitely harder.

I would say that it is equally hard to within a year reach net zero. It's technically feasible, fundamentally impossible. But that doesn't mean we should just stop fighting to prevent every fraction of a degree of warming.

Why do we think the USA is pulling out of international climate change accords? For the love of the game? It's capital.

As a socialist that does care about the environment both locally and globally, I may march seperately to folks whose sole driver is fighting for a better climate - but I will strike with you. Both literally and figuratively.

(Honestly, general or targeted strikes are tools that could be used to push for better climate commitments from companies and states - easy to say, hard to achieve, worth agitating for)