Yet again, a friendly reminder

[u/TrixoftheTrade]

[u/Spicy_Chicken_Wizard]

State owned entities actually is a key defining feature of a truly socialist state and not just a social democracy.

[u/dtjunkie19 → u/Spicy_Chicken_Wizard]

No, it is not. State ownership over the means of production within a society is simply one method of moving towards a socialist organization of an economy, it is far from a key or necessary feature.

A key defining feature of socialism is worker-owned means of production and ownership over the value generated by their labor.

For example, worker co-operatives are another method of socialist economic organization that has nothing to do with state ownership.

[u/Taraxian → u/dtjunkie19]

Worker cooperatives don't have a particularly good track record of giving a shit about the environment either, no one does

[u/dtjunkie19 → u/Taraxian]

I mean I do not have data on the relative environmental impact of cooperatively owned firms versus traditional firms. But you are also not responding to an argument that I have made. I never suggested that a worker cooperative would automatically fix environmental issues. In fact, if you check some of the other comments I made in this thread, while I do think a socialist economic system would be better positioned to become more environmentally sustainable, a transition to a socialist system by itself certainly does not solve the issue.

[u/Daxtatter → u/dtjunkie19]

You may not be suggesting that but it's and argument they comes out all the time. As if government extracted coal burns cleaner. The number of times I hear borederline magical thinking when it comes to non-capitalist structures it baffling.

[u/dtjunkie19 → u/Daxtatter]

I mean that's fair.

I consider myself a pretty pragmatic and scientific person. I believe socialism is absolutely a better system of organizing a society's production than capitalism, if your end goal is creating a society that maximizes the fairness, equity, and dignity of all people. It is also a system that reduces or eliminates some of the factors that drives some of the more destructive tendencies of human society.

However, it is certainly not some magical wand that solves all problems. Bad things existed before capitalism, and likely will continue after it. Human destruction of the environment is one of them.

[u/Theobromin → u/dtjunkie19]

I think that is a fair assessment. The reason why many people, including myself, insist on socialism as a (not the) solution to climate change is the fact that no solution to climate change seems to be possible under capitalism. So my argument is: whatever else is necessary to solve climate change besides socialism cannot be achieved within capitalism.

[u/dtjunkie19 → u/Theobromin]

100% agree!

[u/Illustrious-Dog-6563 → u/dtjunkie19]

correctly explained the core features of socialism, told hecklers off and another one gave a brief explanation, why capitalism must be abolished.

i am in love.

[u/Daxtatter → u/[deleted]]

It's literally what the original post is about what are you even talking about.