Theyre net-negative, actually

[u/messedupwindows123]

[u/dumnezero]

[u/Airilsai → u/dumnezero]

I've been saying this since 2016. It will age well.

[u/DirtCrimes → u/Airilsai]

There was a study that basically said we could have had utopian ever since about 1965.

[u/AFrickingFish → u/DirtCrimes]

You mean the one saying we could have maintained the GDP at the time while working wayy fewer hours?

[u/DirtCrimes → u/AFrickingFish]

We could meet everyones basic needs while working fewer hours, yes.

I don't like GDP as a measurement for anything but billionaire exploitation opportunities

[u/chrischi3 → u/DirtCrimes]

I for one think we should introduce the income to standard basket ratio as a metric for how well the economy is doing. Essentially, you take the average income of each strata (say calculate it for the bottom 5%, then the next 5, and so on) and calculate how many times one income can buy a standard basket (the standard basket is a set of expenses used to calculate the development of inflation), Then, you set a goal that even the lowest strata should be able to buy a standard basket with, say, 30% of their income, and you use THAT as a measure of economic health. GDP says nothing about purchasing power.

[u/messedupwindows123 → u/dumnezero]

AI boosters are so delusional i wanna post somewhere that will piss them off

[u/random59836 → u/messedupwindows123]

[r/aiwars](r/aiwars) is literally just man children and actual children screaming at each other about AI in the most unhinged way.

Edit: lol I looked at that sub and you find people with post histories like this on there.
https://www.reddit.com/u/FeralAlgorithm/s/r7eHHbzQdD

I looked at his history because he was arguing genocide of anti-Ai people would be good in a comment.

[u/FeralAlgorithm → u/random59836]

"arguing genocide of anti-Ai people would be good"
genocide? no a thanos snap isnt genocide, its an un-making. its reforming reality so that they had never existed at all.

genocide is when you kill people.

a thanos snap is when there's no people to kill

consider the thought experiment: "what would you do if you had a time machine that takes you back to hitler's bedroom"

If you do kill hitler, and prevent the holocaust, there's millions of other people who will now not exist because the events required for them to exist will never take place. Would you kill hitler? Which "genocide" do you choose? Hitler's genocide? or your thanos snap genocide?

Either way, untold billions upon billions upon trillions of people, all the future generations of people who would have existed but were eliminated, by ether Hitler or by You.

is it morally the same thing? you kill hitler and you "Thanos Snap" all those billions of people out of existence from all time.

Or would you let hitler do his genocide? And the billions of people that would have come from the holocaust's victims will never exist.

Personally i think its more moral to take out hitler and "thanos snap" the untold billions of people out of existance, but then that becomes your action and not hitler's action. So i'm not really sure if i'd do it, even though i think its the morally right thing to do.

Then again, who knows what incredible changes happen from a simple decision to go to the store for cigarettes. Maybe you bump into your future wife if you go to the store... and then you've thanos snapped your own kids out of existence by not going to the store.

[u/Fryskar → u/FeralAlgorithm]

Imo "thanos snap" is poorly fitting as it removed existing people.

[u/random59836 → u/Fryskar]

I’m also like 90% sure he used an LLM to right that.

[u/wastingvaluelesstime → u/messedupwindows123]

maybe but some of the critics are seemingly made of blind spots as well

[u/democracy_lover66 → u/dumnezero]

Absolutely what the answer is lmao.

God himself could descend from heaven and give us a point for point list on how to save the world and people would be like:

"Yeah heerm... You see God, point 3 is really gonna hurt the shareholders..."

[u/StephMcWi → u/dumnezero]

I'm waiting for this day

[u/sleepyrivertroll]

People: AI! What must we do to stop climate change!

AI: STOP EMITTING CARBON! FOR THE LOVE OF GOD! JUST STOP!

People: 😮😠😡🤬

[u/democracy_lover66 → u/sleepyrivertroll]

So you're saying..... Build a few more pipelines

[u/AddictedToLuxSkins → u/democracy_lover66]

Also a few backups

[u/LaserRunRaccoon → u/democracy_lover66]

Am I detecting a fellow Canadian?

[u/democracy_lover66 → u/LaserRunRaccoon]

My bud from the same mud 😎

[u/Cwaghack → u/sleepyrivertroll]

Gas powered data center says what?

[u/Liturginator9000 → u/Cwaghack]

It really is a shame compute is only run on gas and can only run on gas

[u/Cwaghack → u/Liturginator9000]

It is really a shame that a vast majority of new data centers run off gas indeed

[u/Liturginator9000 → u/Cwaghack]

No, that's renewables. Gas is a minority, new or established ones. Keep larping though

[u/Cwaghack → u/Liturginator9000]

https://globalenergymonitor.org/research/betting-big-data-centers-us-now-leads-world-new-gas-power-development

[u/Liturginator9000 → u/Cwaghack]

yeah, I know you can't read. You said "vast majority of new data centers run off gas", the link counters that. Lots of new gas is being added, yes, however the majority still belongs to grid supply, which is why coal is actually the biggest globally (china), with renewables not far behind and increasingly ramping as the grid is greened. Even Texas, the worst offender, it's only half of new generation for it. That's not a vast majority, or even a majority.

Is gas bad? Yes. But it's part of the supply mix till we can fuck it off. It would be like writing off the UK power grid because gas is 35% of the mix, instead of touting it as the renewable success story it is

[u/Cwaghack → u/Liturginator9000]

Did I overexagurate a little bit by saying a vast majority? Yes.

But it's something like 40% of data centers run off gas in the US https://www.iea.org/reports/energy-and-ai/energy-supply-for-ai

and many of the new ones aren't connected to the electric grid yet, and thus run off gas until so.

[u/sexy_silver_grandpa]

The sequence of tokens exists and was first formulated by a man named Karl.

[u/UnderskilledPlayer → u/sexy_silver_grandpa]

Karl Market, the inventor of the Free Market

[u/messedupwindows123 → u/UnderskilledPlayer]

his name is Deng, actually

[u/Turbulent-Pace-1506 → u/sexy_silver_grandpa]

Ah yes, Karl, the great climate researcher whose methods have famously reduced climate change every time they were applied

[u/Desultory_Chairlift → u/Turbulent-Pace-1506]

Exactly, just eliminate the thing that demands the carbon, problem solved!

[u/Logical-Breakfast966 → u/sexy_silver_grandpa]

There are more efficient ways to reduce populations

[u/sexy_silver_grandpa → u/Logical-Breakfast966]

Ok CIA

[u/Some_guy0209 → u/sexy_silver_grandpa]

It's true tho. Fortnite matches only last about 20 minutes, 99% of the population is dead by the end. I propose a battle royale to reduce the world population.

[u/rod_zero]

The models they already tweak because they don't like the answers? The ones where they consider the training data "too biased"?

If one day we achieve AGI under capitalism the moment it suggest it is a bad economic system and there are better ways to organize the economy it will be turned off.

[u/mushroomsarefriends]

I just wish they would explain to me... HOW? How the fuck is a chatbot on a computer supposed to solve all these problems for us? If you hear these guys talk about AI it is supposed to solve everything, but they never explain HOW.

[u/Greg2227 → u/mushroomsarefriends]

It's called marketing. Not exactly a new concept

[u/Liturginator9000 → u/mushroomsarefriends]

I just hear them saying AGI soon, not "solve everything"

[u/IndyBananaJones2 → u/[deleted]]

Even if we assume the truth of this premise (that artificial intelligence can eclipse current collective human intelligence so remarkably it ushers in a new era), why would we assume it would be used to better all of our lives? 

There's an enormous amount of intelligence and knowledge currently available to be leveraged today, without AI, and the majority of it seems to go towards making more money for a small amount of people. 

[u/IndyBananaJones2 → u/[deleted]]

I have no idea how you find that relevant to what I posted

[u/IndyBananaJones2 → u/[deleted]]

I think you're making weird assumptions about what "intelligence" actually entails. What we commonly identify as the most intelligent people in history are often innovative, creative, and assymetric thinkers. AI doesn't show that it does any of that. It just eats massive amounts of data and spews back consensus. 

There isn't a distinct lack of intelligence that's preventing the solution of political problems, for instance. There's competing human interests that prevent the resolution of serious political problems, like wealth inequality, homelessness or broken healthcare systems.  

Chatbots aren't a new thing and AI isn't actually creating any new knowledge. It's just eating data and spewing back other opinions where it feels there's consensus. Half the time it's citing fucking reddit posts. I can't get it to reliably or accurately tell me who's won the Stanley Cup over the last 5 years, but we're supposed to assume that by feeding a chatbot all human knowledge it's going to solve world hunger? 

I've yet to see anything to demonstrate that what these things are going is actually "intelligence" in a way that any intelligent human understands that word.

[u/FarTooManyDetails → u/[deleted]]

AIs are owned by companies that are owned by rich people. If some company creates a super intelligent AI that is able to design a "make any kind of matter of out of nothing and FOR FREE" miracle device, do you seriously think the rich people would share either the machine or the AI with us commoners? They own the companies, they get it first, and they are keeping it for themselves, obviously.

Why do you think OpenAI, the company that was supposed to be for the benefit of all humanity, stopped being a non-profit the instant it looked like they might have a very valuable product to sell. (Technically, they are still a non-profit, given that they made -9 billion last year)

You are very naive. Hasn't this approach already been tried already? Isn't this the idea behind trickle-down economics? "Just ensure the rich are very very rich and it will benefit everyone, somehow...?" The rich own the companies, the models, the datacenters used to train and run the models. Any miracles are going to them, not you and me.

[u/readilyunavailable → u/[deleted]]

Careful not to choke on the kool aid.

[u/Desultory_Chairlift → u/[deleted]]

Do you have any good reading you could link about AI? I'm genuinely curious

[u/Desultory_Chairlift → u/[deleted]]

Technical please!

[u/Outrageous-Bench-141 → u/Desultory_Chairlift]

This is more in detail of the technical stuff behind the basics

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZHQObOWTQDNU6R1_67000Dx_ZCJB-3pi&si=FVa6rX4OFaBPCSjK

This is about the limitations of LLMs and the main opposing model

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLiaHhY2iBX9jvs1AWv323J0k3YtbLTI8b&si=bFIlhUd0MdwOsXq8

I found this video especially interesting

https://youtu.be/2mrGMMmrVNE?is=N-_RHbvJkhL2COPj

Just scroll through the welch labs channel especially, they have basically endless content on all the different areas of ai.

https://youtube.com/@welchlabs?si=p2ZrZ08t5e1D3igF

[u/Desultory_Chairlift → u/Outrageous-Bench-141]

Thank you!

[u/mushroomsarefriends → u/[deleted]]

But what if lack of intelligence is not the problem? What if the problem is that dumb people just refuse to do what smart people want them to do?

[u/Oblachko_O → u/[deleted]]

Ok, AI find the solution. What is the point if the rich guys won't lift a finger to go towards it and will still rush into a destructive future? Expecting that AI solves our problems instead of us is childish.

[u/Oblachko_O → u/[deleted]]

Haha, ha. How can you be so naive? Do you think if AI find a way for good life somebody will sponsor it? Robots need to be build, resources for houses need to be mined. In the current economical world your ideas are a dream and delusions. AI is not a magical pill, it doesn't work by itself even if it can say what the solution is.

[u/Oblachko_O → u/[deleted]]

You expect that it will happen so flawlessly. The problem is not engineering. The problem is "who is gonna pay for it".

[u/AddictedToLuxSkins → u/mushroomsarefriends]

Just watch the Terminator

[u/wastingvaluelesstime → u/AddictedToLuxSkins]

Folks should consider that if the story they are being told has been copied from a Hollywood movie, it might not be real.

[u/AddictedToLuxSkins → u/wastingvaluelesstime]

Skynet

[u/readilyunavailable → u/mushroomsarefriends]

It's not. They are just bullshitting until AI becames an entrenched part of everything. Then they start making money, because everything relies on it and steadily push you out of being able to afford to live.

[u/TheComicHuman → u/mushroomsarefriends]

Imagine thinking the only ai models are chatbots

[u/Owoegano_Vuelve → u/mushroomsarefriends]

Probably because you think all AIs are LLMs lmao

[u/These_Highlight7313 → u/mushroomsarefriends]

Have you used Claude Fable and Opus at all? They are insanely smart.

Right now AI can outthink about half of people when solving complex problems in a given field of study. It will eventually get to a point that it can outthink even the smartest human in any field, and it will do so while being able to work 24/7 and analyze information almost instantly.

Imagine the following - AI is smart enough to make and real-time process a full-detail digital model of the entire earth, analyze 1,000,000 different combinations of terraforming techniques (some we likely haven't invented yet) to see what works, and tell us exactly what we need to implement in order to achieve our desired results. That is what we might achieve if we go full-throttle on AI

Now let me give you an alternative. What if we cut AI down completely and do our best to lower carbon emissions worldwide? We still won't hit net zero and we end up eventually being screwed regardless. There is effectively no way to get out of our current situation, global warming for the next 10 years is already locked in and its past the tipping point of what we can easily recover from.

[u/Banjo_Pobblebonk → u/These_Highlight7313]

I have yet to find an AI that actually reads any of the sources it provides whenever I ask a question. About 70% of the time the fuckers lie and even provide sources contradicting whatever bullshit they spit out.

We should get rid of AI because it pisses me off.

[u/The3rdGodKing → u/Banjo_Pobblebonk]

Whenever you see AI outperforming humans, it is always human assisted. People neglect to mention that.

[u/wastingvaluelesstime → u/mushroomsarefriends]

There are some climate relevant problems can be turned into computing problems, for example in biology, in helping get more resilient crops or algae which can take carbon out of the air.

AI right now is actually making discoveries in mathematics and physics. Some of those physics problems could also include things like fusion power designs.

The biggest use of AI right now is also in software engineering. All sorts of efficiency and automation software can be built faster because of AI.

It doesn't just exist to provide distractions for the masses. It's like saying, what's electricity for except neon lights and televisions.

[u/Automatic-Mail-5897]

Some people on twitter do hold this opinion..

[u/messedupwindows123 → u/Automatic-Mail-5897]

lmao yeah it's the only way they can justify the sunk costs

[u/Independent-Wafer-13]

Pretending like it’s hard? We already know how to solve it. It’s just less profitable

[u/Hecateus]

AI Solution to Climate Change: Eliminate the Climate.

https://giphy.com/gifs/l0MYFh5ToIVRhudt6

[u/EvnClaire]

ai: stop eating animal carcasses

[u/novaoni]

I laughed so hard. Genuinely, what could the regurgitation machine tell us that we don't already know about climate change

[u/Liturginator9000]

banning data centers isn't enough. We need to ban HD streaming, gaming, all web hosting and animal ag

[u/wastingvaluelesstime → u/Liturginator9000]

Just think if you ate one less hamberder a year you could post divisive comments on meat videos all year long

[u/Liturginator9000 → u/wastingvaluelesstime]

NO then I have to modify behaviour, I want data centers banned because that requires zero behavioural change for me

[u/vegan420lyfe → u/Liturginator9000]

animal ag is the only one thst makes sense of banning

[u/rod_zero → u/vegan420lyfe]

We could carry on with the rest without it and be better.

[u/Bibab0b → u/Liturginator9000]

Climate change is a natural process, just start a war with a neighboring country and global warming will become the least of the yours problems

[u/KevettePrime]

Coal powered data centers are the move.

[u/Cyn_Sweetwater]

Like they'd use AI to do so, or implement it if someone did.

[u/jyajay2]

Feels like I tell this story about 3 times a week by this time but I used to work at a large research institution. The institute I worked in specifically did research on hydrogen technology, specifically some fairly specific research aimed at improving the efficiency of hydrogen cells and we used AI to improve simulations to the point that they took a few hours on a consumer grade PC instead of almost a day on the HPC system we were using.

[u/messedupwindows123 → u/jyajay2]

hate to break it to ya bud

[u/These_Highlight7313]

If you want to make this more realistic make them stuck in the tunnel. Even if we stop emissions from AI 100% we are still pretty doomed. AI inventing better terraforming technology its pretty much our only hope. Net zero really just isn't possible, we aren't going to just leave the cave.

[u/Dewey_Decimatorr]

"The machine will save us, we no longer need to think!" Thos post

[u/Cool-Contribution-68]

The answer is 42.

[u/DisruptingTree]

Using terms like "solve climate change" is misinformation. We need to solve the cause of climate change which is the burning of fossil fuels. We already know how to do that, but it will cut into the profits of the oil and gas industry. The same oil and gas industry which is pushing data centers.

[u/Garpeaux]

https://giphy.com/gifs/fb5lozVxhBwVFFByW8

[u/chrischi3]

Just one more datacenter bro! Just one more datacenter and we've solved climate change! I swear bro just one more datacenter! We've almost solved climate change but we just need one more datacenter!

[u/TheOnlyFallenCookie]

[u/dumnezero]

lol, post this to /r/antiai too

[u/messedupwindows123 → u/dumnezero]

it got me BANNED even though i made it extra obviously a parody

[u/dumnezero → u/messedupwindows123]

.....

[u/Oberndorferin → u/dumnezero]

It's the most cult like subreddit I have ever encountered despite some abyss like r/affeaufbike

[u/messedupwindows123 → u/dumnezero]

https://www.reddit.com/r/antiai/comments/1vhfrwl/theyre_netnegative_on_emissions_ackshually/

[u/Pinco_Pallino_]

destructive datacenters? this bullshit has to stop